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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:11:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 12/01/2007 10:13:09
Speaking as someone who specializes in scan probes ...
Before the scan difficulty fix, it was downright embarrassing how easy it was to catch a missioner. The poor fellow was just unlucky enough to be on a mission, in an Apoc, within scanning range of several planets, so one Snoop later my buzzard was sitting at the entry gate. From there, it was just sad: we sent in the battleships, tackled him, and demanded ransom. He only spoke Russian, so ... *pop*.
I felt bad for the guy.
Look, you piratical lot, if you want Lowsec empty (again) except for people doing the frantic gate-to-gate warp you love so much, make it easy to find missioners. No one will mission in lowsec unless they're looking to ambush pirates, utter newbs, or so bored (or rich) they don't care about losing ships.
For those of you who are saying people should just "watch local": what are you smoking? This is a great strategy in 0.0: see someone you don't know, hit a safespot. In lowsec, this doesn't work for beans, because there are almost always at least a couple of other people in-system, and as I'm sure you're aware, pirates don't always look like pirates. You're not required to flash red, or even yellow, and you certainly don't come with a skull and crossbones plastered to your local chat tab. Ergo, local is functionally useless. Just try running a mission in Otsasai while "watching local" and see whether you tell the pirates from the non-pirates while keeping Enemies Abound 1 from ripping your hull out from around your pod.
The new system is admittedly imperfect, but it beats the hell out of the free kills the old system offered. This is from someone who was taking those kills.
It bit.
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FreeHansje
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:17:00 -
[122]
Edited by: FreeHansje on 12/01/2007 10:14:30
 Quote:
This statistic is completely manufactured. I am here to tell you, that during an entire DAY (9 hours of play time) you are lucky to scan out one mission runner, who most often is gone by the time you warp in.
If you read all postings in this thread you'll read, that some ppl tell you otherwise and hint, that it takes an out-of-the-box approach. Maybe you do something wrong?
Something else. I run missions. I read about missionrunners being biollionairs with factionships/mods. I wonder where these ppl are? I am no billionair, I have no factionmods, let alone factionships. I make good money, yes, but I spend a lot of money too.
If you are a billionaire, why go missionrunning?
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FreeHansje
Yes, I'm a Newby. So sue me! |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:47:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
The new system is admittedly imperfect, but it beats the hell out of the free kills the old system offered. This is from someone who was taking those kills.
I think you're misunderstanding what we all mean by 'the old system'. The old system isn't the post kali first iteration of the chance based single probe system. The overpowered one. It is the pre kali 3 probe triangulation system. The old system had 3au snoop probes that had to be within 1.5au of the target to get a result, (the probe size in the name used to be its diameter, not its radius) 12au fathoms(6au), 48au spooks(24au), 192au ferrets (96au) and finally the observators (infinite range).
At the worst case scenario you'd be trying to probe a target that is off plane and outside the triangle made by the planets in the system, so you have no way to make a triangle around the target to drop 3 probes. Each probe had to be within range of the target and in a triangle around it or the scan would fail. In that situation you'd have to drop an observator, scan 3 times and at each result you'd drop a 192au probe. You'd then scan 3 times with 3x 192's and at each result drop a 48au. Scan 3 times with 3x 48's and at each result drop a 12, then scan 3x with those and at each result drop a 3au. 3x 3au snoops (which all had to end up within 1.5au of the target horizontally and about 0.5au vertically. Remember the disc shape complaint?) should, providing they were all in range give you the warp in you needed to reach your target.
Now remember that every single probe had to be within range of the target, and when you have to make 3x scans for each level of probe size, and it was next to impossible to jump down multiple probe sizes (like going from 3x 48au's down to 3x 3au snoops) as the scan deviation was always just smaller than the max range of the next smallest probe in the list.
The thing about the old system was that it wasn't chance based. The fact that you had to triangulate your target, every probe having to be in range of the target, the far smaller probe scanning areas, the scan deviations not allowing probe size jumping (well, occasionally you did get lucky) and the fact that during all of this your target could spot you or your probes, or finish the mission and move on meant that it was very hard. You were talking 30-45mins for some of the tougher off plane mission spots, including re-dropping expired probes, and warping between bookmarks to line the narrow vertical scan height with the target.
There are probably the same amount of missions being probed out today as there was back then, but now everyone with a properly trained covert alt is getting a share of the kills. In the old system having a trained covert alt was meaningless if you didn't have the skills to use it properly. The dedicated probers got lots of kills, and the amateurs got very little. And why not? They put the time in to learn the tricks and to practice so they deserve the kills. Mission runners weren't overfarmed, but enough died to keep the limited amount of professional probers in tasty loot.
How many scan probe whines did you see before kali?
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:57:00 -
[124]
The real question is why low sec mission runners should have it easier than belt ratters? The answer is none. It REALLY isnt that hard to leave a can at the warp in spot and then move 30-40km off that spot. Its only the idiot ravens who sat at the warp in spewing missiles that got caught.
Move all L4s to lowsec, make it so it requires an explorations probe to scan out an acceleration gate(so you must use the much slower 10minute probe launcher), but increase the success chance to half way between the old and the new odds. All the talk about bringing back the RMR system is pointless, because frankly ccp simply will not do it.
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Zibun Ionic
Minmatar
Cloaca Maxima
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:30:00 -
[125]
[pilot name removed] > no. warp to - the ability to insta-warp to any target in system. It's a GM ability, but it can be got via some childish alteration of data. they covered it up with the 'probe' system to conceal the weakness of design
Now while I was flying around, I saw that opinion cast in local chat.
Anyway, current probing system appears to be too easy. I tested it with my lvl3 probing skills, and found the mission runner I was looking for with second scan. This was high sec system however, but I don't think its different in low sec.
-z
Cloaca Maxima - The Sewage of Amarr Empire. |
Lubomir Penev
Gallente
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2007.01.12 14:02:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Benglada
Edited by: Benglada on 09/01/2007 23:37:29
It seems to me that everytime mission runners whine about something they get it.
Case in point: Probing a mission.
Why should probing a mission be any less difficult then probing a safespot? Why should them doing a mission give them some magical near invulnurability? If they fail to use the scanner to see if someones scanning them, that is THEIR problem.
When im at a safespot 95% of the time im aligned and mash the scan button like a psychopath and, because of this, i rarely die. I think mission runners should have to do the same thing, it is low sec after all, is it not?
At your safespot you are not pounded/scramed by hordes of NPC, and in a mission you can stay aligned if you're in a Raven/Domi but a gunship has to maneuver a bit to reduce transfersal and get in range.
If you are jumped at your safespot you'll be at full cap, armor and shield too.
And more important you can be PvP fit at your safespot.
I'd favor player in deadspace being easier to probe if mission where doable PvP fit, like belt ratting is, right now they are not unless you use a grossly oversized ship for the job (I've seen farmer teams using 4 battleships to farm level 3 missions).
Level 4 mission as they are designed make you tank insane DPS of a very specific type for very long, too long to make cap injected ship viable (unlike PvP where this is a must) and in most cases leaving ships with some resistance hole just so they can handle the rats. Any decently fitted PvP ship can slaughter a missioning ship with some application of nos and help from the rats, making it hardly balanced to make missioners easy to find...
On a related note, IMHO all the old scanning system needed to be fixed was the probes to scan a sphere and not a pie, the need to drop a succession of probes and having them show up on scanner was balanced, right now you can be found by a probe you didn't see on scan 
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Mogubu
League of Gentlemen
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.01.12 14:49:00 -
[127]
As suggested - just let the rats switch targets. Since the lvl4s apperantly is really easy, it should not be very difficult for the average pirate to tank them while killing the noob mission runner. Heck, they might even make some npc iskies out of it! W1n for all!
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Buy mjolnir javelins or rage infernos? Eve-mail me! |
Exlegion
Legion's Knight
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:17:00 -
[128]
These "NERF MISSION RUNNERS NOW!!!!!!111!!" threads seem to pop up once in a while ending with the same stuff being said over and over again. I'm beginning to suspect the OP was just trolling. There is no way in hell that even an 8-year-old would associate L4 missions with safe spotting.
OP starts thread. Four pages later and hasyet to post again. A month or two from now this same topic is going to pop up only to go through the same cycle. And then another two months and yet again another gankbear takes potshots at mission runners via the forums.
I don't know why I bother responding anymore.
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Donna Darko
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:50:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
On a related note, IMHO all the old scanning system needed to be fixed was the probes to scan a sphere and not a pie, the need to drop a succession of probes and having them show up on scanner was balanced, right now you can be found by a probe you didn't see on scan
That had always been my intention when I kept asking for their fix. I didn't imagine it will become a *click* *click* *wait* fest...
On the other hand, I still agree that the old system was too slow and required too long to catch any ship, so I see its good parts too.
Stories. |
Starlinger
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:56:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Manus Stuprare
How about a bit of give and take:
- make missions easier to scan out, but
- make mission rats able to switch targets, instead of keeping aggro on the mission runner all the time.
Both players thus have to deal with damage from the rats, which leads to a fairer fight. That's what everyone wants... isn't it? 
Totally agree. Mission rats must be proportionally switched on newcomers, but i fear we get a whinie from pirates again as their setups are designed for PvP. 
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2007.01.12 22:45:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Starlinger
Originally by: Manus Stuprare
How about a bit of give and take:
- make missions easier to scan out, but
- make mission rats able to switch targets, instead of keeping aggro on the mission runner all the time.
Both players thus have to deal with damage from the rats, which leads to a fairer fight. That's what everyone wants... isn't it?
Totally agree. Mission rats must be proportionally switched on newcomers, but i fear we get a whinie from pirates again as their setups are designed for PvP.
You wouldn't hear any complaints for me.
-Karl
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.12 23:30:00 -
[132]
considering one lucky scan can net a pirate gang several billion in faction/officer mods, or at the very least a nice helping in T2 mods, the way the probes work is fine atm.
And alot of those mission runners do it to fund their PvP fix.
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