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Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 18:46:49 -
[1] - Quote
Planetary Interaction has been a staple of EVE for quite some time but has changed very little over the years. As someone that has worked with it quite extensively there are a few small changes I would enjoy seeing go into place that I believe would make it considerably more viable as an EVE career path and method for funding your characters. The idea focuses primarily on two (or four, depending on dev and player support) new skills:
Extraction Efficiency (2% greater extractor output per level) and Environmental Preservation (2% less global resource removal from extraction)
Which would yield marginal differences of 10% for each at max level. Not a major change overall as only one of these changes would directly change output levels, but enough to make being a planetary overlord a viable thing. This could be taken a step farther with Advanced versions of each of these skills (at 2% or 3% per level, 3% yielding a grand total of 25% change in each area from both skills combined). Hit me with the feedback, I'm sure most of it will be salty and negative. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
43
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 18:57:23 -
[2] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Features and Ideas.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
396
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 20:22:25 -
[3] - Quote
Only if other players can orbitally bombard PI installations, completely obliterating selective bases.
In reality, no. It is already too much riskless isk. I would support new mechanics, but not wider isk faucets.
The cake is not a lie. Unfortunately, the fork is a parallel construction.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9194
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 20:30:08 -
[4] - Quote
In after the Move!
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 20:52:50 -
[5] - Quote
Zimmer Jones wrote:Only if other players can orbitally bombard PI installations, completely obliterating selective bases.
In reality, no. It is already too much riskless isk. I would support new mechanics, but not wider isk faucets. I would support bombardment of PI installations if defenses for them could also be built. The problem is that gets into much more than a simple change. Adding skills is relatively easy and not costly in dev-man-hours. Restructuring the system with entirely new functionality and gameplay isn't. |
Darth Squeemus
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 21:54:26 -
[6] - Quote
Supreme Authority wrote:I would support bombardment of PI installations if defenses for them could also be built. The problem is that gets into much more than a simple change. Adding skills is relatively easy and not costly in dev-man-hours. Restructuring the system with entirely new functionality and gameplay isn't.
Also, as PI goods are not sold to NPCs but to other players they are not an isk faucet any more than moon mining is one. It is the same principle. They only move currently existing isk from one person to another during transactions, they don't generate new isk at any point.
PI kind of is an isk faucet. You're generating isk from a planet. It isn't being transferred from planet-side players to your wallet. You're collecting valuable commodities that regenerate on a regular basis and then selling them to players who have isk and want what you have.
I'm not against PI changes, and I'm certainly not against making it more valuable. But I agree that there needs to be more risk before the reward is increased. I like the idea of PI orbital bombardment and I like the idea of defensive structures, but it would need to be balanced out. You can't say that the increased reward is balanced by giving other players the ability to bombard your settlements, then turn around and set up a bunch of high-power defenses that can effectively ward off several ships. But if your defense system can't ward off several ships, then it's pretty much useless.
Maybe introduce a new mechanic for attacking PI installations that operates similarly to drones or fighters. The drones (or in-atmosphere fighters, or whatever you want to call them) that you would use would be half the size of light drones and would deal significantly less damage, but an amount that makes sense for shooting at buildings and people/droids/whatever the hell occupies PI installations. A damage percentage for each building could be displayed, and the efficiency of each building would be reduced by x amount for each percentage closer to 100%. For example, your Phallus Palace normally creates 2000 black dildos per cycle, but at 10% damage it creates 1800 per cycle, and at 20% it creates 1600/cyc. Building won't need to reach 100% damage to be rendered inoperable. They could stop running programs or producing materials at, say...75-80%-ish.
So the owner of the installation can receive a notification that his installation is under attack, just like pos structures. The attacking pilot has a chance to screw up a PI installation, which I can see putting a nifty new spin on ganking depending on how Crimewatch responds to attacking PI installations, but the attacking pilot can't instantly destroy an entire installation. This seems like it would be pretty fairly balanced for the installation owner. The only part I haven't considered, however, is where the reward would be for the attacking pilot. Why take the time to attack a PI installation and run the risk of the owner's corp retaliating with a blob if there's no reward to be gained?
Edit: Sorry for the comment about dildos. The idea was flowing and I wasn't going to stop to search for words. Dildo was the first thing that...CAME...to mind. Lol. Don't ask why, I don't have an answer for you. My mind is just odd that way, I guess. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1103
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 22:09:32 -
[7] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:
PI kind of is an isk faucet.
No, it isn't.
Quote:You're generating isk from a planet.
No, you're generating planetary commodities from a planet.
Quote:It isn't being transferred from planet-side players to your wallet. You're collecting valuable commodities that regenerate on a regular basis and then selling them to players who have isk and want what you have.
This distinction is absolutely meaningless. A faucet generates NEW ISK. Existing ISK changing hands is never a "faucet". PI, in fact, is an ISK sink, as it generates no new ISK, but results in the destruction of ISK through command centers (NPC sold), planetary building costs and, in high sec, the NPC portion of import and export taxes.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 22:23:53 -
[8] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:Supreme Authority wrote:I would support bombardment of PI installations if defenses for them could also be built. The problem is that gets into much more than a simple change. Adding skills is relatively easy and not costly in dev-man-hours. Restructuring the system with entirely new functionality and gameplay isn't.
Also, as PI goods are not sold to NPCs but to other players they are not an isk faucet any more than moon mining is one. It is the same principle. They only move currently existing isk from one person to another during transactions, they don't generate new isk at any point. Why take the time to attack a PI installation and run the risk of the owner's corp retaliating with a blob if there's no reward to be gained? Edit: Sorry for the comment about dildos. The idea was flowing and I wasn't going to stop to search for words. Dildo was the first thing that...CAME...to mind. Lol. Don't ask why, I don't have an answer for you. My mind is just odd that way, I guess. Kill mails is the only provocation 99.9996% of all PVPers require. |
Darth Squeemus
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 22:28:10 -
[9] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote:You're generating isk from a planet. No, you're generating planetary commodities from a planet.
Planetary commodities = isk, do they not? I mean sure, you can choose to use your PI to make things that you're going to use rather than sell, such as fuel, but it still carries a market value. If I have a car that's worth $10k U.S.D., then I have $10k U.S.D. Just because my money is invested into an asset and isn't liquid doesn't mean that I don't have money. And yes, PI is also an isk sink due to such and such, but it pays off in the long run because you're making more than you're spending anyway. If the cost of buying a command center, building costs, and hi sec taxes is greater than your return, then what's the point of even doing PI in the first place. It's an isk faucet because you can set up an installation on I believe up to 6 different planets, set programs on all of them and let them run for a few days, come back, and collect your isk. Oh, sorry. Your commodities, which are basically place holders for isk if you choose to use them as such.
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Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 02:03:55 -
[10] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote:You're generating isk from a planet. No, you're generating planetary commodities from a planet. Planetary commodities = isk, do they not? I mean sure, you can choose to use your PI to make things that you're going to use rather than sell, such as fuel, but it still carries a market value. If I have a car that's worth $10k U.S.D., then I have $10k U.S.D. Just because my money is invested into an asset and isn't liquid doesn't mean that I don't have money. And yes, PI is also an isk sink due to such and such, but it pays off in the long run because you're making more than you're spending anyway. If the cost of buying a command center, building costs, and hi sec taxes is greater than your return, then what's the point of even doing PI in the first place. It's an isk faucet because you can set up an installation on I believe up to 6 different planets, set programs on all of them and let them run for a few days, come back, and collect your isk. Oh, sorry. Your commodities, which are basically place holders for isk if you choose to use them as such. It seems you're confusing profits with faucets. Faucets create new ISK that didn't exist beforehand, or atleast ISK that no one had access to before then. That is not the same as ISK being moved from one player to another. Bounties are the biggest faucet as it is moving ISK from NPC hands into the hands of players.
It could be argued, based on this, that PI is one of the biggest faucets. However PI goods are not the only commodities in EVE. |
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
397
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 02:20:36 -
[11] - Quote
Alright, my semantic mistake, Material faucets, resulting in isk transfers. Still free and riskless, still a no.
The cake is not a lie. Unfortunately, the fork is a parallel construction.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1104
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 03:39:43 -
[12] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote:You're generating isk from a planet. No, you're generating planetary commodities from a planet. Planetary commodities = isk, do they not? I mean sure, you can choose to use your PI to make things that you're going to use rather than sell, such as fuel, but it still carries a market value. If I have a car that's worth $10k U.S.D., then I have $10k U.S.D. Just because my money is invested into an asset and isn't liquid doesn't mean that I don't have money. And yes, PI is also an isk sink due to such and such, but it pays off in the long run because you're making more than you're spending anyway. If the cost of buying a command center, building costs, and hi sec taxes is greater than your return, then what's the point of even doing PI in the first place. It's an isk faucet because you can set up an installation on I believe up to 6 different planets, set programs on all of them and let them run for a few days, come back, and collect your isk. Oh, sorry. Your commodities, which are basically place holders for isk if you choose to use them as such.
What part of NEW ISK didn't you grasp?
This is very simple ****.
Suppose Bob and Tom are the only two players in the game. They each possess 100 ISK, so the economy has, in total, 200 isk.
Bob makes some PI crap and sells it to Tom for 50 isk. Now Bob has 150 isk and Tom has 50. The economy still has 200 isk, in total. This last bit is only thing you really need to know to determine if it is an "isk faucet".
Calling it an isk faucet is always 100% wrong. That term has a very specific meaning which clearly escapes you.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
4
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 04:57:29 -
[13] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote:You're generating isk from a planet. No, you're generating planetary commodities from a planet. Planetary commodities = isk, do they not? I mean sure, you can choose to use your PI to make things that you're going to use rather than sell, such as fuel, but it still carries a market value. If I have a car that's worth $10k U.S.D., then I have $10k U.S.D. Just because my money is invested into an asset and isn't liquid doesn't mean that I don't have money. And yes, PI is also an isk sink due to such and such, but it pays off in the long run because you're making more than you're spending anyway. If the cost of buying a command center, building costs, and hi sec taxes is greater than your return, then what's the point of even doing PI in the first place. It's an isk faucet because you can set up an installation on I believe up to 6 different planets, set programs on all of them and let them run for a few days, come back, and collect your isk. Oh, sorry. Your commodities, which are basically place holders for isk if you choose to use them as such. What part of NEW ISK didn't you grasp? This is very simple ****. Suppose Bob and Tom are the only two players in the game. They each possess 100 ISK, so the economy has, in total, 200 isk. Bob makes some PI crap and sells it to Tom for 50 isk. Now Bob has 150 isk and Tom has 50. The economy still has 200 isk, in total. This last bit is only thing you really need to know to determine if it is an "isk faucet". Calling it an isk faucet is always 100% wrong. That term has a very specific meaning which clearly escapes you. They are not "placeholders for isk if you choose to use them as such" because it actually requires someone else choosing to use their ISK in the transaction, as well. The quantity of ISK in the economy remains identical - it only changes hands. Quote:It could be argued, based on this, that PI is one of the biggest faucets. However PI goods are not the only commodities in EVE, assuming they are even lumped in to that category at all instead of another. This is ISK introduced to the economy from an NPC purchasing something from a player. That section is basically various bounty tokens (sleeper blue loot being the largest chunk, overseer's effects, etc.) and actual NPC trade goods (e.g., long-limb roes). I see. Good to know and thank you for the correction. :) |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2736
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 05:39:15 -
[14] - Quote
I support anything that will reduce the viability margin for PI alts, bringing a larger fraction of the income to mainaholics. Adding a higher SP curve would help, increasing output without increasing demand will also help.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
357
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 06:03:45 -
[15] - Quote
these skills would likely be a must-have for everyone doing serious PI, therefore, your PI prices go down due to constant demand, no change in isk made (in fact, assuming export/import taxes, slightly less).
you want PI prices to go up, ask for more things to use PI
that said, I can see the allure of decreasing the planetary depletion rate.....
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
136
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 09:16:14 -
[16] - Quote
Supreme Authority wrote:Planetary Interaction has been a staple of EVE for quite some time but has changed very little over the years. As someone that has worked with it quite extensively there are a few small changes I would enjoy seeing go into place that I believe would make it considerably more viable as an EVE career path and method for funding your characters. The idea focuses primarily on two (or four, depending on dev and player support) new skills: Extraction Efficiency (2% greater extractor output per level) and Environmental Preservation (2% less global resource removal from extraction per level) Which would yield marginal differences of 10% for each at max level. Not a major change overall as only one of these changes would directly change output levels, but enough to make being a planetary overlord a viable thing. This could be taken a step farther with Advanced versions of each of these skills (at 2% or 3% per level, 3% yielding a grand total of 25% change in each area from both skills combined). Hit me with the feedback, I'm sure most of it will be salty and negative.
PI is already a system where you have to do so little work to get something, it didn-Št deserve a buff. It deserves to be more of an activity.
-1 |
Regulus Scyssor
Arsenic. The Volition Cult
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 10:44:02 -
[17] - Quote
45 mills for upper my PI items to custom this morning, PI is a greater isk sink!
Good skill for PI:
Customer relations (or similar): 10% reduction in planetary transfer taxes per level (as market skills)
Sit station traders are more secures and have skills to reduce taxes |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1599
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 11:58:38 -
[18] - Quote
PI is a PITA to set up. Once set up is pretty much free income. It's crazy lucrative right now. It deffo doesn't need to be more.
PROHINT: If your PI isn't paying for your PLEX then you are doing it in the wrong area of eve. Which is the rub with your idea. HS PI sux. HS PI in a busy area really really sux. On the other end of the spectrum WH (-1.0 truesec) is pretty easy and crazy lucrative. PI is pretty well balanced right out of the box. You wanna run missions in HS - you get crappy PI. You want to live out on the edge in WH space - you get a lot of PI income. Risk / reward is pretty good.
If you want to make PI better, figure out a way to bypass the 'death by a 1000 clicks' setup process. Being able to swap stuff in a reasonable fasion would probably go a longer way in making PI more productive. We've all been: 'Sigh, I should swap this setup to (fill in good PI idea), but I only have 3 hours before I go to bed and I don't want to spend half of it swapping a PI setup' at which point we leave the same played out setup for one more day (week, month).
Raising PI output by 25% would overload my process streams - forcing me to train the power grid upgrade skill to 5 just to keep up with the incoming P0 materials. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1599
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 12:00:14 -
[19] - Quote
Regulus Scyssor wrote:45 mills for upper my PI items to custom this morning, PI is a greater isk sink!
PI is secure? ask the gang that haunted me for three jumps
Good skill for PI:
Customer relations (or similar): 10% reduction in planetary transfer taxes per level (as market skills)
Sit station traders are more secures and have skills to reduce taxes
The skills you speak of reduce NPC taxes in stations. The skills you recommend reduce player set taxes on player owned pocos. You're comparing apples and oranges. |
Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
5
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 13:58:01 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:PI is a PITA to set up. Once set up is pretty much free income. It's crazy lucrative right now. It deffo doesn't need to be more.
PROHINT: If your PI isn't paying for your PLEX then you are doing it in the wrong area of eve. Which is the rub with your idea. HS PI sux. HS PI in a busy area really really sux. On the other end of the spectrum WH (-1.0 truesec) is pretty easy and crazy lucrative. PI is pretty well balanced right out of the box. You wanna run missions in HS - you get crappy PI. You want to live out on the edge in WH space - you get a lot of PI income. Risk / reward is pretty good.
If you want to make PI better, figure out a way to bypass the 'death by a 1000 clicks' setup process. Being able to swap stuff in a reasonable fasion would probably go a longer way in making PI more productive. We've all been: 'Sigh, I should swap this setup to (fill in good PI idea), but I only have 3 hours before I go to bed and I don't want to spend half of it swapping a PI setup' at which point we leave the same played out setup for one more day (week, month).
Raising PI output by 25% would overload my process streams - forcing me to train the power grid upgrade skill to 5 just to keep up with the incoming P0 materials. Power Grid Management affects PI also? That's a new one on me, I was under the impression it only affected ships. Can anyone confirm this? Or did you mean upgrading the command center fully? |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2839
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 14:56:10 -
[21] - Quote
Skills that just add plain yield provide players with higher SP more yield for no effort or skill.
A skill id rather see is one that reduces the grid need of links. This way it doesnt add a flat bonus for older players over noobs, instead it allows players to reach deposits on larger planets that they may not have before without having to uproot half their network. It may also allow players to plant an extra extractor or processor. All of which converts to a gain in yield, but to make the most of it you have to know what you're doing.
Second set of changes id like to see from PI is that the extractor area was not scaled with time. As someone who never has a regular week, the amount of time im away from the game fluctuates a lot and it is truly a pain to have to re adjust the position of 60-100 little dots because instead of being away for 48 hours, im going to be gone for 72 hours or more.
So my proposal is this:
1- Extractor program time no longer affects the extractor area size, but longer times still reduce efficiency.
2- Reduce the amount of extractor units per head to four rather than 10.
3- Add a slider that increases the extraction area of units. This could be a slider for each individual unit or a slider that controls the area of all units under that head. Larger areas take more grid and are also less efficient than smaller more focused grids.
this last point effectively replaces the (tedious) gameplay of planting several extractor heads in funny shapes around a single deposit. Instead you only need one extractor unit for each deposit you want to extract from and can then choose to scale it up to the size of the deposit or as much grid as you have left.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Regulus Scyssor
Arsenic. The Volition Cult
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 15:38:07 -
[22] - Quote
I find this skill
Custom Code Expertise:
Expertise in cutting through the red tape of customs regulations. Reduces Import and Export empire tax in Customs Offices by 10% per level.
This does not affect InterBus Customs Offices.
is exacly the skill I suggest from my ignorance, lol
I still are a noob in many fields of this game |
Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
5
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 15:44:53 -
[23] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Skills that just add plain yield provide players with higher SP more yield for no effort or skill.
A skill id rather see is one that reduces the grid need of links. This way it doesnt add a flat bonus for older players over noobs, instead it allows players to reach deposits on larger planets that they may not have before without having to uproot half their network. It may also allow players to plant an extra extractor or processor. All of which converts to a gain in yield, but to make the most of it you have to know what you're doing.
Second set of changes id like to see from PI is that the extractor area was not scaled with time. As someone who never has a regular week, the amount of time im away from the game fluctuates a lot and it is truly a pain to have to re adjust the position of 60-100 little dots because instead of being away for 48 hours, im going to be gone for 72 hours or more.
So my proposal is this:
1- Extractor program time no longer affects the extractor area size, but longer times still reduce efficiency.
2- Reduce the amount of extractor units per head to four rather than 10.
3- Add a slider that increases the extraction area of units. This could be a slider for each individual unit or a slider that controls the area of all units under that head. Larger areas take more grid and are also less efficient than smaller more focused grids.
this last point effectively replaces the (tedious) gameplay of planting several extractor heads in funny shapes around a single deposit. Instead you only need one extractor unit for each deposit you want to extract from and can then choose to scale it up to the size of the deposit or as much grid as you have left. If they were to change the mechanics of how PI works, which would require fairly extensive changes to the code, I'd like to see the ability to set PI station modules in a set form similarly to pre-set and custom probe arrangements. A similar setup for extractor heads would also be cool. What I was suggesting with the skills was a way to change the current system with minimal coding changes needed. Skills are much easier to implement than overhauling the entire system, not that I am against that being done. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2839
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 16:20:14 -
[24] - Quote
PI could do with a bit of an overhaul. But my proposed changes are trivial code wise save for maybe adding individual sliders for each extractor unit and taking up more grid.
I would also like to see pre-set formations, but this would still require more clicking than my proposal for essentially the same thing.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
507
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 17:25:49 -
[25] - Quote
The one thing I would like to see is being able to setup contracts for people to pick up and deliver your PI to/from the planet.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
434
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 17:52:10 -
[26] - Quote
Supreme Authority wrote:they are not an isk faucet any more than moon mining is one.
Moon mining is an enormous isk faucet. If anything moon mining and PI need to be nerfed, not buffed. Passive ISK generation is a bad thing |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1599
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 18:02:20 -
[27] - Quote
Supreme Authority wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:PI is a PITA to set up. Once set up is pretty much free income. It's crazy lucrative right now. It deffo doesn't need to be more.
PROHINT: If your PI isn't paying for your PLEX then you are doing it in the wrong area of eve. Which is the rub with your idea. HS PI sux. HS PI in a busy area really really sux. On the other end of the spectrum WH (-1.0 truesec) is pretty easy and crazy lucrative. PI is pretty well balanced right out of the box. You wanna run missions in HS - you get crappy PI. You want to live out on the edge in WH space - you get a lot of PI income. Risk / reward is pretty good.
If you want to make PI better, figure out a way to bypass the 'death by a 1000 clicks' setup process. Being able to swap stuff in a reasonable fasion would probably go a longer way in making PI more productive. We've all been: 'Sigh, I should swap this setup to (fill in good PI idea), but I only have 3 hours before I go to bed and I don't want to spend half of it swapping a PI setup' at which point we leave the same played out setup for one more day (week, month).
Raising PI output by 25% would overload my process streams - forcing me to train the power grid upgrade skill to 5 just to keep up with the incoming P0 materials. Power Grid Management affects PI also? That's a new one on me, I was under the impression it only affected ships. Can anyone confirm this? Or did you mean upgrading the command center fully?
The upgrade the thinger fully. (I finished training PI stuff weeks ago, I'm old and it's a little foggy at this point) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1599
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 18:13:48 -
[28] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Supreme Authority wrote:they are not an isk faucet any more than moon mining is one. Moon mining is an enormous isk faucet. If anything moon mining and PI need to be nerfed, not buffed. Passive ISK generation is a bad thing
It's a semantics thing with the guy you quoted. His point is you don't get isk. You get stuff and trade it for someone elses isk. To him an isk faucet creates isk out of npc stuff.
You refer to it as an isk faucet because you jab it in the side of the eve economy (set up PI or a moon mining POS) and it just sucks the isk out of the economy and into your wallet. All you have to do is get your free PI/goo to market.
Passive isk isn't the same as faucet isk.
You don't like it because it's passive isk aquisition. (me either).
Moon goo is horrible for the game because it is stationary, never depletes and easily controlled by a few. PI is OK for the game because it's open to everyone, follows the risk/reward ethos of the game, depletes and is too common for any single group to monopolize it. The last 2 factors are (in my opinion) and admission by CCP as to how wrong moon goo is. They just need enough faith in their game to cut the moon goo strings. I'm hopeful they will get there in time. The only folks that argue that moon goo is good for the game are its benefactors. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
434
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Posted - 2015.11.24 18:24:12 -
[29] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:It's a semantics thing with the guy you quoted. His point is you don't get isk. You get stuff and trade it for someone elses isk. To him an isk faucet creates isk out of npc stuff.
You refer to it as an isk faucet because you jab it in the side of the eve economy (set up PI or a moon mining POS) and it just sucks the isk out of the economy and into your wallet. All you have to do is get your free PI/goo to market.
Passive isk isn't the same as faucet isk.
You don't like it because it's passive isk aquisition. (me either).
Moon goo is horrible for the game because it is stationary, never depletes and easily controlled by a few. PI is OK for the game because it's open to everyone, follows the risk/reward ethos of the game, depletes and is too common for any single group to monopolize it. The last 2 factors are (in my opinion) and admission by CCP as to how wrong moon goo is. They just need enough faith in their game to cut the moon goo strings. I'm hopeful they will get there in time. The only folks that argue that moon goo is good for the game are its benefactors.
I understand, I was talking more about moon goo than PI, so this thread probably wasn't the most appropriate place for it. I think You're right about PI, given that it depletes.
I'm OK with moon goo staying in the game, but it definitely needs to deplete. If you aggressively moon mine, it should be possible to have no moon goo in your region for a while. It will never happen though, given how loud the voices of major sov entities are, and how much they want to protect their risk-free income. |
Supreme Authority
Domunation High Command AII ShaII Perish
6
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Posted - 2015.11.24 18:34:46 -
[30] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:It's a semantics thing with the guy you quoted. His point is you don't get isk. You get stuff and trade it for someone elses isk. To him an isk faucet creates isk out of npc stuff.
You refer to it as an isk faucet because you jab it in the side of the eve economy (set up PI or a moon mining POS) and it just sucks the isk out of the economy and into your wallet. All you have to do is get your free PI/goo to market.
Passive isk isn't the same as faucet isk.
You don't like it because it's passive isk aquisition. (me either).
Moon goo is horrible for the game because it is stationary, never depletes and easily controlled by a few. PI is OK for the game because it's open to everyone, follows the risk/reward ethos of the game, depletes and is too common for any single group to monopolize it. The last 2 factors are (in my opinion) and admission by CCP as to how wrong moon goo is. They just need enough faith in their game to cut the moon goo strings. I'm hopeful they will get there in time. The only folks that argue that moon goo is good for the game are its benefactors. I understand, I was talking more about moon goo than PI, so this thread probably wasn't the most appropriate place for it. I think You're right about PI, given that it depletes. I'm OK with moon goo staying in the game, but it definitely needs to deplete. If you aggressively moon mine, it should be possible to have no moon goo in your region for a while. It will never happen though, given how loud the voices of major sov entities are, and how much they want to protect their risk-free income. Reacting and PI in w-space are two of my largest sources of income, both are passive but neither are "safe". I've had people neut and scram me while picking up my PI goods more than once. Reacting can be hijacked by siphons which would cause me to have to either offline it or provide someone with a pvp opportunity while it was killed. |
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