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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 18:40:00 -
[1]
i cant figure out the setup people are using to hold a tank in level 4's, i always end up with the entire spawn on me at once... ive tried quite a few setups including mob specific hardners (bringing my resistances to 81%+ resistance to mission damage types) and still im unable to hold my tank with a large shield booster II in a raven or a rokh..
my current setup im trying on my rokh is 3x 250mm scouts, 4x limos siege launchers, 1x tractor beam, 1x named X-large shield booster, 1x boost amp, 3x active hardners (I switch out which ones for specific mission damage types), 1x large shield extender, 5x named power relays (doesnt seem to hurt my boost much i ended up with 465 boosted every 4.8 seconds) 1x thermal hardener rig, 1x em hardener rig, 1x cap recharge rig.
ive tried a few other setups with both a raven and a rokh but no matter what i cant seem to hold the tank through an entire level 4 spawn.. PLEASE HELP!!! What am i doing wrong?
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.10 18:42:00 -
[2]
try missions forum
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.10 18:47:00 -
[3]
Sorry to say, but your setup needs a big revival - look around the forum for cookie cutter raven setups, and only when you get familiar with them are you allowed to start modifying them to your own liking
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 18:54:00 -
[4]
gee thx for the "post in another forum" and "Search the unsearchable forum" posts were alot of help... ive looked around and i dont see how my setup varies much from others... if anyone would actually like to answer my question i would appreciate it.. if you have nothing constructive to say please dont post on my thread... thanks in advance
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:00:00 -
[5]
With all due respect sir, you are asking questions that are common with new players and have been answered a thousand times already. Although the search function on the eve-o forums isnt exactly it, i suggest you still try it, go by the stickies and browse back a few pages if neccesary.
Basilisk Fitting Link |
GeekWarrior
Gallente FISKL GUARDS Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: GeekWarrior on 10/01/2007 18:58:07 Why oh why would you put siege launchers and medium guns on a large gun ship?
----------------------------- EVE Addict, creator of the EVE Online Forms Greasemonkey Script \o/ |
Borasao
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:04:00 -
[7]
Couple of things:
1) And this is #1 priority: Figure out what you're doing wrong that is causing the whole room to agro on you. There are only a couple/few missions that will autoagro like this. Odds are, you aren't paying attention to what you're shooting and/or aren't paying attention to when you can safely launch drones (would be my guesses).
2) Those hardener rigs aren't so great for missioning. From reading the forums, the most obviously useful rigs are the CCC rigs. More cap = more tank.
3) I use a Raven so all of my cap goes to my tank.
4) No need for a LSE on an active tank setup.
5) I run 1 XL C5L Booster, Boost Amp, and 4x tech2 hardeners (2 primary, 1 secondary, 1 invuln).
6) Use a heavy NOS or two... any cap is good cap, even the little bit you get from NPC rats.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:04:00 -
[8]
For your main question of "what am I doing wrong", other than the full aggro, the "your setup sux" point you saw expressed was pretty valid.
First of all, you're NOT supposed to get the whole room aggroing you all at once. That normally constitutes a FUBAR situation where you should warp the heck out of. A Raven with a normal large booster was NEVER supposed to handle a full room aggro in the top tier missions, not by a long shot... maybe with an XL booster, but that's a different can of worms.
Second, don't ever use anything other than capcapcap rigs on battleships or above... at least for missions, that is. Third, don't use cap power relays when you shield-tank, use power diagnostic units instead and even maybe a cap recharger in the mids. Fouth, don't bother with a shield extender, pack on another hardner or the cap recharger I mentioned above. _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
ShadowKi
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:05:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ShadowKi on 10/01/2007 19:04:29 Edited by: ShadowKi on 10/01/2007 19:02:59 For one thing you're using cap power relays on a shield tanker.
Switch them out with PDU's.
Cap power relays = not shield tanking. Either use Shield Power Relays for passive setups or PDU's for active.
Stick with the raven and use Cruise perferably for the longer range and drone vs the smaller ships that they don't work well against (watch out for dronw aggro though, kill all the big ships before sending out the drones to finish off frigates if you know that drones aggro on a specific room).
Your mids are fine as is though -except for that extender, use a recharger like the guy above said.
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:10:00 -
[10]
why do i put siege and medium guns on? because siege has a higher damage output then any other launcher type ive tried... mediums for faster tracking and the bonuses dont do jack for guns really (a little better range isnt very impressive) the mediums are there for faster tracking on cruiser size ships... as it is i can barely hit them 75% of the time. ive tried the eve forum search site thing and it never seems to work at all.. if you also read my post you will see ive tried MANY setups including alot of the so called "cookie cutter" setups... ive also tried a raven (or 10) as i said before if you arent going to answer my question PLEASE dont post on my thread.. ive been playing well over a year and im asking a VERY simple question... also dont badmouth my setup without providing a reason as to why... useless flames are just aggravating.
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ShadowKi
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:17:00 -
[11]
In missions you want range so you can take out ships while they're far away and so you don't have to waste tme moving - and to avoid aggro'ing by getting close.
So you want cruise launchers and (if you're bothering with the rohk, I say stick with the raven) Large rail guns.
Torps and medium guns force you to get closer, which means either you aggro more or you have to take damage closing in.
Anything that you can't track or effectively use cruises on you sick drones on.
Also - www.eve-info.com should help with its mission info and you can ask the mission forum for help.
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Borasao Couple of things:
1) And this is #1 priority: Figure out what you're doing wrong that is causing the whole room to agro on you. There are only a couple/few missions that will autoagro like this. Odds are, you aren't paying attention to what you're shooting and/or aren't paying attention to when you can safely launch drones (would be my guesses).
actually im very carefull about what i shoot.. it seems I will shoot a mob 45 km away and everything will be fine for about 5 minutes... but then the 90km + mobs will start targeting me for no apparant reason.. not sure why but this has been VERY common problem for me
2) Those hardener rigs aren't so great for missioning. From reading the forums, the most obviously useful rigs are the CCC rigs. More cap = more tank.
ive actually found i NEVER run out of cap before i have to run i just cant hold up to the DPS they are doing.. even with resistances and decent cap recharge (under 300 seconds with 6600 cap) and im boosting for 465 every 4.8 seconds atm and never taking more then 23% damage from resists (77% tends to be my lowest with this setup)
3) I use a Raven so all of my cap goes to my tank.
4) No need for a LSE on an active tank setup.
i actually only recently put this on... what should i consider replacing it with? cap recharge isnt a problem
5) I run 1 XL C5L Booster, Boost Amp, and 4x tech2 hardeners (2 primary, 1 secondary, 1 invuln).
i used to run a similar setup but didnt find the 4th hardener very effective
6) Use a heavy NOS or two... any cap is good cap, even the little bit you get from NPC rats.
my problem with nos is even large only have 23km or so range.. by the time big enough ships get in range for my nos to be effective im usually about ready to run (and once again i dont really have cap problems... i can run a large tech 2 non stop pretty much and an extra large can go for quite awhile)
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Trykster (and once again i dont really have cap problems... i can run a large tech 2 non stop pretty much and an extra large can go for quite awhile)
That's your problem..
Use an X-Large. C5-L or whatever (best named) or T2 X-Large if you have the skills/fitting.
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Trykster on 10/01/2007 19:22:00 im just curious why people say relays arent as good as pdu's? my cap recharge is amazing and with a XL C5L shield booster(480 boosted base) with a boost amp and 5 relays my shield recharge is 464.8 every 4.8 seconds with a tech 2 XL shield booster will be even better... it seems my only real problem is that the entire rooms are agroing me... ima have to figure out why that is and remedy it.
thank you very much to the people that have actually been saying constructive things the help is appreciated
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ShadowKi
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:31:00 -
[15]
Edited by: ShadowKi on 10/01/2007 19:29:27 Edited by: ShadowKi on 10/01/2007 19:28:27
Originally by: Trykster Edited by: Trykster on 10/01/2007 19:22:00 im just curious why people say relays arent as good as pdu's? my cap recharge is amazing and with a XL C5L shield booster(480 boosted base) with a boost amp and 5 relays my shield recharge is 464.8 every 4.8 seconds with a tech 2 XL shield booster will be even better... it seems my only real problem is that the entire rooms are agroing me... ima have to figure out why that is and remedy it.
thank you very much to the people that have actually been saying constructive things the help is appreciated
Its because with PDUs instead, you'd be doing 624 hp a boost instead of 464.8. Thats 130 hp/s instead of 96.8 hp/s. Thats 34% better tank right there.
You don't loot in a BS - ever, well almost never lol - and only with a tractor beam if you do. If you want to loot bookmark the mission rooms annd come back in a destroyer/cruiser with a rack of tractos/salvagers.
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Tiraya
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:37:00 -
[16]
I have a cookie cutter raven setup on my main tanks exceptionally well for most lvl 4s as long as im carefull
my setup is the following
hi - 2 heavy nos 6 arby cruise med - 4 rat specific gist b large sb gist c sheild boost amp low - 2 bcu t2 2 pdu t2 and a best named damage control
when running missions i just look for the odd ai that looks like it might trigger the spawn and avoid it not had a raven loss for a long long time with this
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:38:00 -
[17]
actually with 5x named pdu's i was only boosting for 510 every 4.8 seconds (not sure why this is considering the relays should hurt me ALOT more but that is what it is) and my cap recharge was at around 600 seconds (more then double what i have atm) so im only actually taking a 50 hp loss every 4.8 seconds or roughly 10 hp per second
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Amouder Dis
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:39:00 -
[18]
you're breaking so many of the BASIC rules of setting up ships, it boggles the mind.
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ShadowKi
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Trykster Edited by: Trykster on 10/01/2007 19:36:44 actually with 5x named pdu's i was only boosting for 510 every 4.8 seconds (not sure why this is considering the relays should hurt me ALOT more but that is what it is) and my cap recharge was at around 600 seconds (more then double what i have atm) so im only actually taking a 50 hp loss every 4.8 seconds or roughly 10 hp per second
edit* i plan to incorporate a tech 2 XL booster soon which should bring my boost up to around 580 or so if the negatives stay the same as well
Now thats weird. The booster does 480 hp base, and with a boost amp, which is +30% boost, it should be 480 X 1.3 = 624.
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Trykster on 10/01/2007 19:44:56 couldnt edit above post... just noticed it didnt make much sense... disregard the above post as im retarded
im not sure why though but i dont seem to get the bonuses / penalties right or something...
for instance the booster and relays should give me +30% total boost rate with - 50% to boost rate should still come out at -20% means i should only boost for 384 (roughly) but i boost for 465
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Batelle
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Posted - 2007.01.10 19:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Batelle on 10/01/2007 19:56:11 deleted post, was quoting previous edited post
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:14:00 -
[22]
Besides the already mentioned tanking errors (Extenders on a mission ship are like the worst thing you can fit), another of your problems is too low damage output. Part of any mission tank is reducing the incoming DPS in short order, and with 4 unbonused Sieges and some med guns, and no damage mods at all, you sure won't do that. You do realize that medium ammo does only half the damage of large ammo, do you?
And of course getting mass aggro means you ARE doing something wrong as that only happens for no reason in one mission I know of. All other mass aggros are related to shooting the wrong thing, closing with the wrong thing, or launching drones.
And get rid of that horrible tractor beam in the highslot, looting is done after the NPCs are all dead with a ship better specialized in looting/salvaging. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Amouder Dis you're breaking so many of the BASIC rules of setting up ships, it boggles the mind.
interesting... from looking at the setups of other people i seem fairly close in line with what the average level 4 setup is... only thing i see different is im using a rokh with launchers... but only wanted the rokh for the resistance bonuses anyways... as i stated before the TINY bit of added range doesnt make much difference IMO.. so to me its just a trade off.. slightly better tanking for slightly lower dps
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:21:00 -
[24]
You need to heed the advice peeps are giving you. I don't know why you are wasting time trying to mission in a rohk. Best thing is to just use a cookie cutter setup. If you can't get it to work, then find out what you're doing wrong. Odds are its not the setup. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
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Trykster
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Centurin You need to heed the advice peeps are giving you. I don't know why you are wasting time trying to mission in a rohk. Best thing is to just use a cookie cutter setup. If you can't get it to work, then find out what you're doing wrong. Odds are its not the setup.
its a long story as to why im in a rokh atm... one that i wont get into... just suffice it to say thats the ship i have atm..
and yes i will try some of the advice and play with my setup a bit more... seems my main problem is the rats agroing me... someone said something about drones make things agro? is that from any distance? like if im 90km away and i launch my drones are the ships 90km away gonna agro me? sorry if im asking stupid questions here just trying to figure out where im making a mistake, as it happens every time i do a level 4 (and ive done quite a few in groups and the smaller ones solo) so should i just tank the stuff i cant kill with missles / guns until i have the spawn to a more managable(sp?) size and can agro the rest? or am i misunderstanding
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:44:00 -
[26]
If you want to salvage and stuff and shoot a lot of cruisers go with a Raven instead... 2 extra launchers (you might get fitting trouble with siege though) is way better than 4 medium guns...
Pinky
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Trykster only thing i see different is im using a rokh with launchers... but only wanted the rokh for the resistance bonuses anyways... as i stated before the TINY bit of added range doesnt make much difference IMO.. so to me its just a trade off.. slightly better tanking for slightly lower dps
I think this points out what 50% of your problem is: You know very little about the ins and outs of ship fitting. Suffice to say the Rokh is slightly better tank for a LOT lower DPS and some added cap problems. You lose a damage and velocity bonus on the torps, both of which are kinda mandatory for those weapons to be effective. You can only mount 4 torp launchers and have to fill the other 4 highs with inferior weapons, and you lack the NOS that is VERY helpful with cap. And of course a mission setup with no damage mod makes Baby Leandro cry in the first place.
Originally by: Trykster
and yes i will try some of the advice and play with my setup a bit more... seems my main problem is the rats agroing me... someone said something about drones make things agro? is that from any distance? like if im 90km away and i launch my drones are the ships 90km away gonna agro me? sorry if im asking stupid questions here just trying to figure out where im making a mistake
And here is the other 50% of your problem, you do not know the ins and outs of all missions. What you describe with drones is exactly what happens in some missions. You have to know (and remember!) in which. Same for a lot of other perks. Mission running is by no means as trivial as your next door PvPer wants everyone to believe. It is a science all by itself, and in the beginning when you don't have gist mods yet it can actually be quite hard.
--------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Trykster only thing i see different is im using a rokh with launchers... but only wanted the rokh for the resistance bonuses anyways... as i stated before the TINY bit of added range doesnt make much difference IMO.. so to me its just a trade off.. slightly better tanking for slightly lower dps
I think this points out what 50% of your problem is: You know very little about the ins and outs of ship fitting. Suffice to say the Rokh is slightly better tank for a LOT lower DPS and some added cap problems. You lose a damage and velocity bonus on the torps, both of which are kinda mandatory for those weapons to be effective. You can only mount 4 torp launchers and have to fill the other 4 highs with inferior weapons, and you lack the NOS that is VERY helpful with cap. And of course a mission setup with no damage mod makes Baby Leandro cry in the first place.
Originally by: Trykster
and yes i will try some of the advice and play with my setup a bit more... seems my main problem is the rats agroing me... someone said something about drones make things agro? is that from any distance? like if im 90km away and i launch my drones are the ships 90km away gonna agro me? sorry if im asking stupid questions here just trying to figure out where im making a mistake
And here is the other 50% of your problem, you do not know the ins and outs of all missions. What you describe with drones is exactly what happens in some missions. You have to know (and remember!) in which. Same for a lot of other perks. Mission running is by no means as trivial as your next door PvPer wants everyone to believe. It is a science all by itself, and in the beginning when you don't have gist mods yet it can actually be quite hard.
--------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Trykster
and yes i will try some of the advice and play with my setup a bit more... seems my main problem is the rats agroing me... someone said something about drones make things agro? is that from any distance? like if im 90km away and i launch my drones are the ships 90km away gonna agro me? sorry if im asking stupid questions here just trying to figure out where im making a mistake, as it happens every time i do a level 4 (and ive done quite a few in groups and the smaller ones solo) so should i just tank the stuff i cant kill with missles / guns until i have the spawn to a more managable(sp?) size and can agro the rest? or am i misunderstanding
It depends. Some missions all the room agros anytime a drone is launched (doesn't matter the range). Some missions, only certain ships agro anytime a drone is launched (doesn't matter the range). Some missions, all/certain ships will agro only when drones are launched within a certain range of them. Some missions, the rats don't care if you do or do not launch drones ever at any range.
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.01.10 20:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Trykster
and yes i will try some of the advice and play with my setup a bit more... seems my main problem is the rats agroing me... someone said something about drones make things agro? is that from any distance? like if im 90km away and i launch my drones are the ships 90km away gonna agro me? sorry if im asking stupid questions here just trying to figure out where im making a mistake, as it happens every time i do a level 4 (and ive done quite a few in groups and the smaller ones solo) so should i just tank the stuff i cant kill with missles / guns until i have the spawn to a more managable(sp?) size and can agro the rest? or am i misunderstanding
It depends. Some missions all the room agros anytime a drone is launched (doesn't matter the range). Some missions, only certain ships agro anytime a drone is launched (doesn't matter the range). Some missions, all/certain ships will agro only when drones are launched within a certain range of them. Some missions, the rats don't care if you do or do not launch drones ever at any range.
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