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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13496
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:43:26 -
[1] - Quote
Hey everyone! We're ready to get feedback on the changes to Remote Reps planned for our Operation Frostline release on December 8th. These changes are designed to be introduced alongside the new T2 Logistics Frigates.
Few notes about this plan:
- This includes a full Module Tiericide pass on the Remote Armor Repairers, Remote Shield Boosters and Remote Hull Repairers. We are not adding new types of reppers at this time, but we are considering doing so in the near future (potentially large deadspace reps and/or named and faction hull reps).
- Remote armor, shield and hull reps all now have falloff (this falloff reduces effectiveness as you get further from your target, just like the neut falloff)
- Armor reps are more focused on optimal, Shield reps are more focused on falloff.
- Frigate logistics skews further towards falloff, while cruiser and larger bonuses tend to apply equally to both optimal and falloff.
- Rep cycle times are getting slower (~20% slower for armor reps and ~60% slower for shield reps). This will make target switching more powerful against overwhelming logi numbers, and increase danger of overhealing. Overall providing more room for very good logi pilots to shine.
- Overall rep/s is remaining fairly constant since rep amount per cycle is increasing.
- Capacitor use on shield and armor reps has increased a bit. Logistics ships are getting larger cap pools (but not better cap/s recharge) to compensate. Overall this makes it harder to be fully cap stable but easier to fly with a logi that isn't quite cap stable if you're not repping constantly.
- Base ranges on the reps have increased, and ship range bonuses are smaller to compensate. This makes the skill curve less steep and buffs non-range bonused RR ships such as RRBS and T3 Cruiser logi.
- Shield reps are getting reduced CPU and increased powergrid requirements. Shield logi fittings are being adjusted to match. This change makes it much more reasonable to fit shield RR on non-bonused ships and goes a long way to alleviating the fitting problems on shield carriers.
- We're not adding falloff to Remote Energy Transfers in this release, although that is still in our plan for later.
- We're increasing the base range of Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitters by ~17%, but reducing the bonus on carriers/supercarriers so bonused range stays the same while unbonused range increases.
We're not doing a full balance pass on the other logi ships in this release, but there are some tweaks:
- Fitting changes for shield logi (extra pwg, less cpu) as mentioned above
- Increased cap pools with recharge time increased so that cap/s recharge stays similar
- T2 Logi Cruiser rep drone bonuses will apply to all types just like the T1 Support Cruiser bonus
- All T1 and T2 Cruiser Rep Drone bonuses will now apply to hull rep drones as well as armor and shield
Range bonuses are being adjusted to match the new base module ranges and falloff addition:
- T2 Cruiser Logi: 60% Optimal and Falloff per level (62% for the Etana)
- T1 Support Cruisers: 430% Optimal and Falloff role bonus
- Armor logi frigate (T1 and T2): 50% Optimal, 600% Falloff role bonus
- Shield logi frigate (T1 and T2): 300% Falloff role bonus
- Carriers, Supercarriers, Rorqual: 40% Optimal and Falloff per level
Exact stats for the Remote Rep modules can be found in this spreadsheet.
Here are some example falloff curves for a few ship classes. These always assume max skills and T2 repair modules:
Non-LogiFrig Ship changes:
Basilisk: Shield Rep Range bonus is now +60% optimal and falloff per level (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones (armor, shield and hull) PWG: 1050 (+225) CPU: 460 (-50) Capacitor Pool: 2100 (+725) Capacitor Recharge Time: 467s (+165.75s)
Scimitar: Shield Rep Range bonus is now +60% optimal and falloff per level (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones (armor, shield and hull) PWG: 735 (+185) CPU: 445 (-50) Capacitor Pool: 1750 (+500) Capacitor Recharge Time: 390s (+111.25s) Guardian: Armor Rep Range bonus is now +60% optimal and falloff per level (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones (armor, shield and hull) Capacitor Pool: 2250 (+750) Capacitor Recharge Time: 500s (+165s) Oneiros: Armor Rep Range bonus is now +60% optimal and falloff per level (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones (armor, shield and hull) Capacitor Pool: 1925 (+550) Capacitor Recharge Time: 430s (+123.1s) Etana: Shield Rep Range bonus is now +62% optimal and falloff per level (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones PWG: 1150 (+250) CPU: 520 (-40) Capacitor Pool: 3000 (+996) Capacitor Recharge Time: 420s (+141.25s) Osprey: Shield Rep Range role bonus is now +430% optimal and falloff (with base module ranges increased to compensate) PWG: 470 (+45) CPU: 380 (-30) Capacitor Pool: 2100 (+725) Capacitor Recharge Time: 420s (+145s) Scythe: Shield Rep Range role bonus is now +430% optimal and falloff (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Rep drone bonus now applies to all rep drones (armor, shield and hull) PWG: 345 (+35) CPU: 285 (-30) Capacitor Pool: 1750 (+500) Capacitor Recharge Time: 350s (+110s) Augoror: Armor Rep Range role bonus is now +430% optimal and falloff (with base module ranges increased to compensate) Capacitor Pool: 2250 (+...
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13496
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:43:41 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Araneatrox
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
58
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:53:58 -
[3] - Quote
Does the T2 Cruiser logi still include the Cap reduction and Fitting requirements reduction?
As it isn't mentioned and there is a large buff to Cap amount and Cap Recharge.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2466
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:55:39 -
[4] - Quote
Is there a reason shield is taking such a bit cycle hit vs armor? Feels a little homogenous. The differences before were interesting. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13497
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:56:44 -
[5] - Quote
Araneatrox wrote:Does the T2 Cruiser logi still include the Cap reduction and Fitting requirements reduction?
As it isn't mentioned and there is a large buff to Cap amount and Cap Recharge.
Yes the bonuses that aren't explicitly mentioned are staying the same.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Ariz Black
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:58:02 -
[6] - Quote
Fozzie what about the Nestor? And T3 logi? |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2831
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:59:23 -
[7] - Quote
What's the reasoning for having the rep cycle as -20% -60% for armor and shield?
I understand the point about more chance to mis-rep, but why are they so significantly different? |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
576
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:04:44 -
[8] - Quote
What about Nestor and T3 logi subsystem? any changes there?
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2466
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:05:16 -
[9] - Quote
Oh and rep drones? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1247
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:07:16 -
[10] - Quote
interesting changes, i like the cycle time variation and the falloff too optimal differences with shields and armour, not sure what the logi drone changes are about some more info on that would be nice, i like the frig ranges they seem fair, BUT cruiser rep ranges are still too strong, same with e-war cruisers really, perhaps you could consider a better scaling system maybe that includes battleship getting the longer range and cruiser ranges being nerfed down a fair bit, after all cruisers have mobility too move around the battlefield battleships could be like sentry reps/e-war easy too catch but have projection too make up for it and cruisers/frigs have mobility too project theirs.
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
319
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:20:43 -
[11] - Quote
Rowells wrote:What's the reasoning for having the rep cycle as -20% -60% for armor and shield?
I understand the point about more chance to mis-rep, but why are they so significantly different?
Because shield is easy mode and applies at the start of the cycle - armor reps apply at the end.
Increased cycle time is only a tiny nerf for shield, but a very big one for armor. |
Anthar Thebess
1378
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:20:49 -
[12] - Quote
When we will get pirate faction logi ship and(or) faction modules, in pirate faction LP stores?
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1623
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:21:54 -
[13] - Quote
Nice
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Callduron
Aliastra Gallente Federation
631
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:29:22 -
[14] - Quote
Could you please consider giving Amarr logi ships of all types the distinctive racial larger drone bay feature? It would be great fun to be able to have 25m3 / 75m3 on a Guardian so we could bring a full flight of each type of light rep drone.
I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/
I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
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Feffri
Death By Design Did he say Jump
54
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:38:44 -
[15] - Quote
you are ******* terrible fozzie. why do you fix things that don't need to be fixed you need to be ******* fired cause you are terrible at your job and have no idea what you are doing. noone is complaining about the state of logi in the game this is a useless change that only makes it unnecessary to bring as many damps as logi especially shield will be forced right on top of the fleet much easier. why don't you just take all piloting and skill out of the game. you are ******* terrible! these falloff changes to reps and neuts is just stupid. especially when there are so many other things that need balancing. for instance how bout you stop making all ******* gallente ships op'd as **** and bring back a little variety all minnie ships are pretty much terrible, start there. also your sov seems to be complety ******** and the changes to cap logistics is just making it easier to N+1. Maybe you should try playing this game sometime to get a feel for everything you **** with... again you are terrible and I hate almost every change you make to the game you are a cancer in eve. |
4chan SlashPOL
Implying Jita Prices Vaguely Opsec.
8
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:41:53 -
[16] - Quote
Reserved |
Carthereon Crust
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:44:51 -
[17] - Quote
Will current Logistics ships be receiving a buff to their base targeting range?
Some of the ships (namely Minmatar) already deal with only having a few km between their max rep and target range. With falloff I imagine there's going to be a discrepancy between potential range and targeting range on some of these ships. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
760
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:47:19 -
[18] - Quote
I think it is a good start. I should post in a new features and idea, but other thoughts to add potentially. Mostly cause while the changes help, it will not resolve the n+1 issue.
- Is lock range increasing? As a logi pilot, an increase in lock time in exchange for lock range I feel would make for some interesting fits. That said, sebus for range, but I think the new range usage on these will be lost in short lock ranges.
- Brought it up in stream, but can we in the future look at a subcap version of a triage modules? So get the resist, local rep and a range bonus for the module but then lose ability to receive reps? Still move is the difference
- If we get above, can we get a logi battleship for the large reps? Then we can have T2 cruisers be medium reps.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
319
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:49:13 -
[19] - Quote
Carthereon Crust wrote:Will current Logistics ships be receiving a buff to their base targeting range?
Some of the ships (namely Minmatar) already deal with only having a few km between their max rep and target range. With falloff I imagine there's going to be a discrepancy between potential range and targeting range on some of these ships.
Fit Sensor boosters?
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g4llentes0ldier
P0co holdings Ninja Reapers
0
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:59:28 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:Rowells wrote:What's the reasoning for having the rep cycle as -20% -60% for armor and shield?
I understand the point about more chance to mis-rep, but why are they so significantly different? Because shield is easy mode and applies at the start of the cycle - armor reps apply at the end. Increased cycle time is only a tiny nerf for shield, but a very big one for armor.
Even so shield reps will now take 7.2 sec per cycle where as Armor will take 6.3 sec per cycle so over time shields reps cannot match armour reps and shields will have a shorter optimal range. Basically go with Armor ships and reps after this
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Mugetsu Endoresu
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:00:11 -
[21] - Quote
Feffri wrote:you are ******* terrible fozzie. why do you fix things that don't need to be fixed you need to be ******* fired cause you are terrible at your job and have no idea what you are doing. I'm all for freedom of speech and disagreeing with a dev but you crossed the line with that sentence. Calling for a dev's resignation because of an ingame change is stupid and does way more harm then good. |
Rmage Gemmell
Friends of Mache Foundation
1
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:04:45 -
[22] - Quote
So let me get this straight .... a Scimmy/Scythe/Basi/Osprey can now pump shield HP at 100k ?
You don't see a problem here with warp distance being at 150k and the small guy trying to separate gangs ?
Logi frigs that can repp at 40k. Lovely. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1964
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:29:55 -
[23] - Quote
Interesting changes coming... I like it.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1077
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:36:42 -
[24] - Quote
"noone is complaining about the state of logi in the game"
Quote of the ages.
Anyways, looking forward to playing these changes.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
320
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:00:07 -
[25] - Quote
g4llentes0ldier wrote:Even so shield reps will now take 7.2 sec per cycle where as Armor will take 6.3 sec per cycle so over time shields reps cannot match armour reps and shields will have a shorter optimal range. Basically go with Armor ships and reps after this
You are misunderstanding the changes. The amount repaired per second didn't change. They cycle slower, but boost more.
The only thing this changes for shield is that you let your target drop a little bit lower before activating the shield booster.
For armor the changes are much more severe, because it will take longer until the rep actually gets applied. To be honest I don't think armor even needs this nerf, considering how little impact this will have on shield. Personally I would have just nerfed the scan resolution of logis instead. (since it would have the same impact on shield and armor)
Yes, the optimal range of shield is shorter, but the falloff is a lot longer, meaning that at longer ranges shield actually reps more than armor. |
g4llentes0ldier
P0co holdings Ninja Reapers
0
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:13:40 -
[26] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:g4llentes0ldier wrote:Even so shield reps will now take 7.2 sec per cycle where as Armor will take 6.3 sec per cycle so over time shields reps cannot match armour reps and shields will have a shorter optimal range. Basically go with Armor ships and reps after this
You are misunderstanding the changes. The amount repaired per second didn't change. They cycle slower, but boost more. The only thing this changes for shield is that you let your target drop a little bit lower before activating the shield booster. For armor the changes are much more severe, because it will take longer until the rep actually gets applied. To be honest I don't think armor even needs this nerf, considering how little impact this will have on shield. Personally I would have just nerfed the scan resolution of logis instead. (since it would have the same impact on shield and armor) Yes, the optimal range of shield is shorter, but the falloff is a lot longer, meaning that at longer ranges shield actually reps more than armor.
Yes and once they are in the falloff the amount repped goes down. even with the boost to amount for shields if you have a Armor and a shield logi both sitting at 60km the Armor one will rep more and faster than a shield one. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
320
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:15:19 -
[27] - Quote
g4llentes0ldier wrote:Yes and once they are in the falloff the amount repped goes down. even with the boost to amount for shields if you have a Armor and a shield logi both sitting at 60km the Armor one will rep more and faster than a shield one.
No, they don't. Look at the graphs that Fozzie posted.
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PlantythePottedPlant
Ultima Unitatis No Points Necessary
13
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:21:32 -
[28] - Quote
I might be wrong in the long run, but 4.4k optimal on the shield logistic frigates (T1 and T2) seems too short. Looking at the shield logistics cruisers, you have something like 40-50% of the old range is the optimal, but for the Bantam, Burst, and the two T2 variants thereof, you're looking at roughly 16% of the old range being optimal.
I watched the stream video, and you said you wanted the frigates to rely more on falloff than their cruiser counterparts, but I feel like this is too much. If I have to be within blaster range of a fight to effectively rep the same as pre-patch, that doesn't seem like a good change for a ship that really doesn't get that much use as it is (burst + bantam).
It might lend itself to some clutch manual piloting, which is probably what I'll try to do if the patch comes out unchanged from the current Sisi build, but I just wanted to ask you to rethink that optimal range and how it compares to the cruisers. The T1 frigates just don't have to tank the be that close to fights, and it effectively makes them significantly less useful than they were before. Maybe that's the intention, because frigate shield logistics ships were overpowered (?), but I don't see how anyone would have that opinion.
All I ask is like 10k optimal, or even like 7-8k, start the slope a bit later. When you're starting at the same reps, and sloping off from that, you're looking at a straight nerf, because past 30k, <70% of the 96 or so hp/s it was repping in the first place is next to nothing in any engagement worth having logistics at in the first place. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2103
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:39:47 -
[29] - Quote
Any chance we will also see Ancillary remote repair mods? .. increase the rep amount then add a 40 second reload
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Circumstantial Evidence
239
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:55:26 -
[30] - Quote
The combination of adding falloff to neutralizers, with this change bringing support ships closer to their fleet if they want to ensure max reps, is going to make a much more challenging battlefield. |
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