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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13496
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:47:56 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks. We're ready to gather feedback on our plan for a new set of Tech Two Logistics Frigates scheduled for release in Operation Frostline on December 8th.
These ships are designed to release alongside the big set of remote rep changes in the same release.
These ships use a new skill: Logistics Frigates
- 4x Multiplier, Will/Per
- Requires Spaceship Command 3, Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting 4
The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers"
Deacon Amarr Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost 5% bonus to all armor hitpoints Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range 600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff Slot layout: 3H, 2M, 5L; 2 turrets Fittings: 57 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 550 / 400 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 55 / 75 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 43.5 / 60 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 675 / 337.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 405 / 3.5 / 1,630,000 / 7.91s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 920 / 8 Sensor strength: 15 Signature radius: 32 Cargo Hold: 250m3 Kirin Caldari Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount 10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost 5% bonus to all shield hitpoints Role Bonus: 300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 42 PWG, 215 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 550 / 300 / 375 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.5 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 615 / 307.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 370 / 3.95 / 1,480,000 / 8.1s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 870 / 8 Sensor strength: 16 Signature radius: 33 Cargo Hold: 270m3 Thalia Gallente Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost 5% reduction in signature radius Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range 600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff Slot layout: 3H, 3M, 4L; 2 turrets Fittings: 60 PWG, 155 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 450 / 425 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40 / 70 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 51.25 / 67.5 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 595 / 297.5s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 / 3.7 / 1,450,000 / 7.44s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 43km / 890 / 8 Sensor strength: 14 Signature radius: 34 Cargo Hold: 280m3 Scalpel Minmatar Frigate Bonus per level: 10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount 10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost Logistics Frigates Bonus per level: 5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost 5% reduction in signature radius Role Bonus: 300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 42 PWG, 200 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450 / 300 / 350 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 40 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 80 / 51.25 / 25 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 560 / 280s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.85 / 1,420,000 / 7.58s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 940 / 8 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 31 Cargo Hold: 260m3
Let us know what you think!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13496
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:48:08 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1179
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:50:59 -
[3] - Quote
redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2831
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:53:01 -
[4] - Quote
Those speeds seem really weird.
415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1247
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:12:50 -
[5] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Those speeds seem really weird.
415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?
yes that is a big disparity especially when you add the sig bloom from extenders, i would suggest bring the other 3 down under 400
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1623
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:28:34 -
[6] - Quote
Nice
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
114
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:33:47 -
[7] - Quote
Do pilots with Logistics skill already trained get grandfathered into the Logistics Frigate skill or will they train it up from zero? |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
531
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Posted - 2015.11.26 23:57:22 -
[8] - Quote
so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor
no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Anthar Thebess
1378
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:02:46 -
[9] - Quote
Why this are not pirate faction frigates that come from pirate LP store. More isk sinks are good.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1247
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:08:19 -
[10] - Quote
also not a fan of having sig analysis lv5 as a pre req, training skills too lv5 should be optional as much as possible
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Count Szadek
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
12
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:18:15 -
[11] - Quote
im honestly a little curious about the amarr and caldari with a tank bonus. as they both have 5 slots in their respective tank oriented areas. I would like to actually see a mwd cap penalty reduction there instead. i feel that will give them a better bonus to their layouts. i like the sig radius as that will really help be more close range for brawler fleets, while a mwd cap penalty reduction would help kiting / fast moving fleets more. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1964
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:23:06 -
[12] - Quote
These look very nice.
Still amazed at people complaining about training useful prerequisites...
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Dantelion Shinoni
SQUIDS.
20
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:28:50 -
[13] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor
no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low.
Amarr is forever cursed with extra Lows, so that was expected, I'd have hoped we'd get something to compensate, but of course the Gallente one is the one getting the superior sig bonus :^)
Being Amarr or Caldari is suffering, no mids or no speed. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
711
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:29:17 -
[14] - Quote
Not a fan of the skill multiplier. Proper fitting and piloting of logistics already takes a very hefty SP investment, these should be easier and more forgiving as far as the SP barrier goes. It should be the small bump to make people want to train Logistics Cruisers to V.
While these definitely look very cool and either augment present fleet compositions or enable others, there is still the overarching issue of small things being king and big things being comparatively worthless these days. Why would anyone undock in a T1 cruiser fleet with T1 cruiser logi when they could undock in t3ds with T2 logi frigates?
This has potential to be good, but it also has the obvious potential to further exacerbate the 't3ds online' syndrome. It's very neat to have new toys, and while the BC changes overall have really helped, big things still need help. They are cumbersome dinosaurs living in a fast and competitive world, and it seems most game mechanics are against them these days.
I thoroughly enjoy frigate PvP, but EvE as a whole becomes a little less epic when that's all you can find. We are shown epic battles with huge starships, and all that's really viable to play with are space bumper cars. This just enables further going down this road, and I don't think it's a good thing unless there are more changes for big things in the works.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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big miker
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
384
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:46:08 -
[15] - Quote
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius. Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png
Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank.
Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold.
Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / marauders
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Circumstantial Evidence
239
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:54:47 -
[16] - Quote
While you are renaming skills, is "Logistics" the best name for this function?
The ships provide remote shield or armor... boost/repair/help/support... what about "Remote Support," or words of this nature.
Force Auxiliary is the new name for the Capital ship class providing these functions, perhaps this could be borrowed to better describe the function.
Querns wrote:"Auxiliary" is, really, the perfect word for this sort of ship line. Auxiliaries, in war-time, refer to noncombatants whose primary role is to tend to wounded and dead soldiers. In naval parlance, it refers to a vessel with a supporting role, which is not armed for combat. It makes a lot more sense than "logistics," which typically refers to moving goods, troops, or equipment, not healing. "Logistics" is what Jump Freighters do. |
Valkin Mordirc
1688
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Posted - 2015.11.27 00:57:34 -
[17] - Quote
The Sig bonus is what scares me the most with this ships, I've always thought that T2 Logi Frig's would become a little OP due to the small sig bonus, specially with implants + Links.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2931
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:06:32 -
[18] - Quote
I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses.
The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel. The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia.
With the upcoming tiercide shunt towards slower cycle times, these bonuses to rep rate and capacitor use are obviously different from the previous T1 logi frigs.
This is interesting, because consider the Burst with it's 500% range bonus; that's going to now get 20 + 40km range.
You might want to go back and tiercide the T1 logi frigates again, Fozzie, because they are going to be repping more or less as well as the T2's at well outside T2 range.
The sig radius is also a little on the ridiculous side. As Big Miker says, 12m sig rad for the armour, 14 for the shield (with links, no pills or plants). With 10MN fits quite doable (especially for the Deacon; what else do you do with 5 lows?) these are going to be utter cancer. Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.
Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.
i suppose i'm overall happy; I just think you need to go and have a re-look at the T1 frigates now you've changed the RR's. They vastly outrange the T2 frigates.
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1332
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:38:51 -
[19] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses.
The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel. The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia.
For comparison, investing in a little pimp for your Scalpel and going with pithi A-type RR, it should end up being 5.8km+37km, 195hp/cycle every 3secs, or 200hp/s roughly at 6km and 100hp/s at ~42km. In melee range, that would rep as hard as a 3 meta large scimi right now and half that much at 42km. The RR-mods were like 6mil recently. |
Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome
173
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:45:59 -
[20] - Quote
Holy align times Batman. |
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Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm NEOS FLEET
10
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:48:04 -
[21] - Quote
Sig tank is better than buffer face tank in fleets, as fellow logi pilots just have much less raw armor/shield damage to rep, wich magnify tanking power of signature bonussed logi wing vs facetanking logi wing. (same rep power to rep less raw damage -> better general tank)
Amarr and caldari ships it seems designed to be more durable but suffer form EWAR Matar and Gal ships designed to have better utility but be less durable.
With current desigh sigtanking ships have better actual tanks than facetanking buffer-bonussed ships and have better utility by initial design, wich means that Amarr and Cal ships are inferior.
Suggestion:
Change buffer bonus for appropriate resists bonus to make design tanking bonuses equal between races.
OR change signature bonus for scan res bonus
high scan res allows logi to apply reps faster, that is crutial aspect that current t1 ships lack. Curent t1 line ships melt in few seconds under foccused fire, often unable to catch reps from t1 logi (especially armor, due to combination of low scan res+application of HP at the end of the long cycle). That change will make Gal/Min logi more desirable for fast t1 FW frigate-dessie fights where reaction time is valued more than raw tanking power, and make Amarr/Cald ships more desirable in small T2 / T3D / T1 cruiser gangs where reaction time valued less than raw tanking power of individial logi ship. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
320
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Posted - 2015.11.27 01:53:38 -
[22] - Quote
big miker wrote:Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.... I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small.
Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. 6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible.
Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius. |
aria Yatolila
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
46
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Posted - 2015.11.27 02:02:21 -
[23] - Quote
The sig radius bonus seems pretty strong as pointed by Big Miker, even if i like the idea of this kind of bonus, maybe move it as a role bonus or a fix number (like -1 sig per level of logi freg), to avoid ridiculous number. I think the red line about sig radius is around 20 (as a linked claw can go to 19~) and any ship shouldn't go under 20.
Lady Yatolila, retainer of her Lady Kadesh and Khanid Royal House
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2932
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Posted - 2015.11.27 02:06:55 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:big miker wrote:Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.... I have to agree with this... It's ridiculusly small. Imagine those things in a C6 wolf rayet. 6m sig radius with an oversized prop mod... they would be practically invincible. Give them more EHP/resists instead of the tiny sig radius.
More like a C13....but, then again, 1500 DPS hecates are a thing, so...good with the bad.
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.11.27 02:10:07 -
[25] - Quote
Gallente Navy Navitas with RR hull "coming soon"? For Real Men. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
349
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Posted - 2015.11.27 02:46:18 -
[26] - Quote
Why the grid disparity between the deacon/thalia? |
Jaro Essa
Dahkur Forge
29
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Posted - 2015.11.27 04:00:16 -
[27] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads. So shoot them with lights?
Trinkets friend wrote:Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot. The emphasis on sig tanking increases the importance of pilot skill necessary in minimising the risk of such pot shots. With the introduction of falloff, there's incentive to be changing position and getting closer at times to deliver higher reps, and maintaining speed and position to take advantage of such sig radius will be an interesting challenge. The emphasis on sig tanking also means that, just as these will be the most powerful in frig/dessie compositions, so too will small weapons be the most effective against them. |
Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
26
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Posted - 2015.11.27 04:05:28 -
[28] - Quote
I'm seeing a lot of comments about the sig radius, which I agree will be quite small with the bonus.
I wonder though, is the extremely poor agility and mass intended to make it difficult to make these ships kitey? With ABs and MWDs you wont get much speed and your transverse velocity on orbits is going to be quite poor compared to most ships, T1 or T2.
S. Santorine
============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.
S. Santorine
Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
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Bob Niac
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani
54
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Posted - 2015.11.27 04:18:50 -
[29] - Quote
Please add utility hull!
Remote cap for Amarr
Remote sensor booster for Gallente
Remote tracking links for Minmatar
Remote ECCM for Caldari.
Edi: Again SECOND SHIP, separate from OP.
[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all -áT2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid.
I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
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Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2015.11.27 05:08:22 -
[30] - Quote
To be honest, I was really hoping for bonuses towards remote assistance modules like tracking links, remote sebos, and remote eccm to bring some more utility to the field in small gangs. The few times I e flown a tracking link oneiros have been really fun- not so much the scimi due to mid slot tank and all. There are already a bunch of rep focused ships. A repair drone bonus to go along with the remote assist stuff coulda been really fun- cap boosting, a sebo/eccm on the logi gang, and some hull drones to help out - target range and tracking links (optimal scripts) on a corm gang? I think it could have been wicked. |
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