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synK
Caldari Chrome Combat
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Posted - 2007.01.10 21:33:00 -
[1]
with similar equivilant setups. which would be better for lvl 4's.
a drake with its 7 launchers, or a cerb with its better res's. this is my sig |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.10 21:39:00 -
[2]
A cerberus will have a superior tank when fighting guristas, so leaves more room for a target painter / webber / afterburner. Not to mention the range advantage it has, combined with an afterburner.
Basilisk Fitting Link |
synK
Caldari Chrome Combat
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Posted - 2007.01.10 21:42:00 -
[3]
how about a Cerberus Cerberus lvl 4 team, or a drake cerberus team, my friend and i debating splashing out on a second cerb for lvl 4's. this is my sig |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.10 21:43:00 -
[4]
One word:
Nighthawk.
'nuff said. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
synK
Caldari Chrome Combat
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Posted - 2007.01.10 21:48:00 -
[5]
well, not really concidering that the nighthawk has eff all to do with the thread, move on fool this is my sig |
Impolite Andevil
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Posted - 2007.01.10 22:10:00 -
[6]
I fly a cerb for lev 4's, and it does edge the drake very slightly on DPS. You have to keep the ROF bonuses, etc. for the cerb in mind. It is quite close, though. The Cerb just has a much better tank than the drake.
Really, it was quite annoying to see a BC come out that was within a few percent of the capability of the cerberus, costs a tiny fraction, has FAR fewer skill requirements, and can be insured. Not that I think they should gimp the drake, I'd just like to see the cerb boosted a bit to make it worth running.
I don't think I'd buy a second cerb. Buy the drake.
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Helen
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.10 22:13:00 -
[7]
I'm happy with my Drake fitted with 7 x T2 Heavy Launchers with 3 x Domination BCS I get a RoF of 6.6secs which annhilates nearly all lvl 4 missions just gonna try it on AE (lvl 4) and then I know it's perfect for all missions in fact I'm going to leave the Raven at home from now on.
Aeon sig will return soon as I can fit it |
synK
Caldari Chrome Combat
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Posted - 2007.01.10 22:28:00 -
[8]
i do also like the drake, insane tank with cool DPS, i jus like having nice new shiny ships :P.
atm, my friend and i are doing a Gurista Extravaganza, and the two of use (without T2 launcehrs and ammo) its 1m 30secs to take a 1.2 mil Raven. making money is quick with this setup. tomorrow it will be easier, with sheild rep drones, if the tank is better ( if only slightly ) and the DPS is slightly better, a dual cerb setup sounds like a plan, 2 BCU II's helps so much aswell! this is my sig |
Corwain
Gallente Infinite Innovations
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Posted - 2007.01.10 22:45:00 -
[9]
OK, I know my experience is only in PvP, but...the drake has Cerb-level DPS? Now I haven't fought any Cerbs in my Arbitrator, but I've been able to tank drakes just fine, and Arbitrators inevitably either have low resists or a huge damage type hole in their plated setups. Now I know I never leave Kinetic as my hole due to not being able to tracking disrupt missile boats (and some of these get a damage bonus to kinetic), but I've been able to tank every Drake I've fought. Probly low skilled pilots though. Anyways the main problem I have when fighting drakes is their insane passive shield tank that can last infinitely even when nossed. I've had a Myrmidon with Nos and T2 mediums, and my Arbitrator with its T2 Mediums hammering on a drake and we couldn't break his passive tank. We eventually had to let the guy go due to running out of cap charges.
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Helen
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.10 23:59:00 -
[10]
Depends on the Drake operator beware the man with T2 launchers and some uber drones.
Aeon sig will return soon as I can fit it |
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Impolite Andevil
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:19:00 -
[11]
On my Cerb, running 5x heavy launcher 2's with scourge and 3 domination BCSs, my average DPS is 221 according to QF. On a drake, with 7 heavy launcher 2s and 3 domination BCSs, the average DPS is 247 according to QF. So actually, I was wrong above. The Drake can out damage the Cerb significantly when you take drones into account. Using 5x Hornet 2's, the Drake DPS reaches 306. Hornet 1's = 293 DPS.
On the tank side, for the cerb I use a Gist C large SB, a Stalwart tech 1 SB amp, a tech 2 inv field, a tech 2 rat-specific hardener, and a damage control 2. I usually fight guristas so I will calc with a ballistic hardener. The cerb resists are 39/76/91/88 for EM/EXP/KIN/TH damage respectively. The booster puts out an average boost of 87 shield points per second and the ship regens another 5.76, so that lets the cerb sustain 1034 kinetic DPS on the tank (assuming kin was the only damage for comparisions sake). On the drake, I use the same tank except I add a tech 2 thermal hardener and use an internal force field array 1 instead of the damage control 2 - no CPU for tech 2. It has 54/81/86/82 for resists and a shield regen of 103 under boost (higher passive regen), allowing it to tank 736 kinetic DPS. On the other hand, it has 6300 shield points instead of 2300, so it can sustain a broken tank a fair bit longer.
The more I do, the more I begin to think I should park the cerb and run level 4's in a drake until I finish training for my nighthawk. This is unreal. The drake is WAY to close to the cerb for a tech 1 low level ship. It is disgusting.
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BallsSnatcher
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:27:00 -
[12]
The only guys you forgot to put into your caculations is 1. Speed, Cerberus is faster,range and smaller sig.
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Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.01.11 03:25:00 -
[13]
My corpmate and I do lvl 4's. He has a Cerb and I have a Drake. I do the tanking and he kills ships. Big difference in tanking is Drakes higher amount of shield HP's. I like to think of the Drake as the poor mans HAC.
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DarK
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Helen bblablabla blabla bla bla
k
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Akita T on 11/01/2007 06:12:49
Originally by: Impolite Andevil On my Cerb, running 5x heavy launcher 2's with scourge and 3 domination BCSs, my average DPS is 221 according to QF. On a drake, with 7 heavy launcher 2s and 3 domination BCSs, the average DPS is 247 according to QF. So actually, I was wrong above. The Drake can out damage the Cerb significantly when you take drones into account. Using 5x Hornet 2's, the Drake DPS reaches 306. Hornet 1's = 293 DPS.
On the tank side, for the cerb I use a Gist C large SB, a Stalwart tech 1 SB amp, a tech 2 inv field, a tech 2 rat-specific hardener, and a damage control 2. I usually fight guristas so I will calc with a ballistic hardener. The cerb resists are 39/76/91/88 for EM/EXP/KIN/TH damage respectively. The booster puts out an average boost of 87 shield points per second and the ship regens another 5.76, so that lets the cerb sustain 1034 kinetic DPS on the tank (assuming kin was the only damage for comparisions sake). On the drake, I use the same tank except I add a tech 2 thermal hardener and use an internal force field array 1 instead of the damage control 2 - no CPU for tech 2. It has 54/81/86/82 for resists and a shield regen of 103 under boost (higher passive regen), allowing it to tank 736 kinetic DPS. On the other hand, it has 6300 shield points instead of 2300, so it can sustain a broken tank a fair bit longer.
The more I do, the more I begin to think I should park the cerb and run level 4's in a drake until I finish training for my nighthawk. This is unreal. The drake is WAY to close to the cerb for a tech 1 low level ship. It is disgusting.
I have lousy missile skills compared to the rest of my skills, I use only ONE T2 BCU, no other T2 gear onboard except two large shield extenders. And I still push out 194 kinetic DPS out of my Drake from missiles alone. Plus, I suppose I hit about 230 with T1 drones. That's more than your T2 fited Cerberus right there :P
I get a passive peak shield recharge rate of 166 per second. With an Anti-Guristas hardner setup (2x T1 kinetic and 1x T1 thermal), I get to perma-tank 1223 kin or 518 thermal DPS.
Let's just say, I can perma-AFK-tank 12 Guristas Obliterators with ease, 15 would need more than 10 minutes to kill my Drake. And that with T1 hardners at my current skills. ___
Still want to fly a Cerberus ? _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Thor Ba'aleron
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:18:00 -
[16]
Cerb vs Drake, that one was simple for me. I was half way through caldari cruiser 5 when they nerfed EW and brought out another heavy launcher platform. Caldari Cruiser 5 is still at 48% because I feel the drake is fantastic. However, this is mainly a PVP observation, as passive tanking is far, far superior in pvp. For PVE, I would say the Cerberus is still the superior ship for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the drake is virtually married to kinetic damage, as it sole damage bonus lies there. The Cerberus can better switch to other ammo for mission running and still maintain it's 20% bonus at level 4 HAC.
With that said, despite your flaming of the guy who suggested a nighthawk the simple fact is that a Raven owns anything short of a faction raven for pve. If you are strictly a pve player I would strongly advise you ignore both HACs and BC's in favor of the boring old raven... still the best Level 4 / ratting boat in the game, with a huge cargo bay, good tank, varied DPS choices and ability to mount 2 tractor beams for faster looting.
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:04:00 -
[17]
i would stike to the drake, as it is lousy cheap compared to a cerb, can have a tank like a cerb and out damages the cerb, so get a drake, and for the 150mil difference get urself some nice fitting stuff for ur drake.
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Greyshadow
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 for the 150mil difference get urself some nice fitting stuff for ur drake.
Yeah I agree you could get some decent modules and get a overall better setup. A expert drake pilot would give a cerb pilot a run for his money, although a very good cerb pilot would have the edge still I would have though
------ The Grim Reaper is out of the office at the moment leave a message and Greyshadow will get back to you! |
Harlequinn
Caldari Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:29:00 -
[19]
If only the Cerb could use it's last high slot for a launcher.
--Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.-- |
Justus Sandrius
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:46:00 -
[20]
Akita, how do you get a 166 passive shield peak recharge rate on a drake? I have a total of 14000 shield, a recharge of 390, which results in about 35*2.4=86 SPS. I checked your skills and yours are a bit better, but not so much better that they explain the diff of a factor 2.
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Mordaunt
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:14:00 -
[21]
Rigs is the answer to that question
My drake recharges at a peak of 110 without rigs
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Justus Sandrius Akita, how do you get a 166 passive shield peak recharge rate on a drake? I have a total of 14000 shield, a recharge of 390, which results in about 35*2.4=86 SPS. I checked your skills and yours are a bit better, but not so much better that they explain the diff of a factor 2.
2 large T2 entenders, 3 T1 hardners, 1 T2 bcu, 3 SPRs, 3 purger rigs 15805 HP, 238 sec -> 166 per second peak recharge _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Impolite Andevil
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 11/01/2007 06:12:49 I have lousy missile skills compared to the rest of my skills, I use only ONE T2 BCU, no other T2 gear onboard except two large shield extenders. And I still push out 194 kinetic DPS out of my Drake from missiles alone. Plus, I suppose I hit about 230 with T1 drones. That's more than your T2 fited Cerberus right there :P
I get a passive peak shield recharge rate of 166 per second. With an Anti-Guristas hardner setup (2x T1 kinetic and 1x T1 thermal), I get to perma-tank 1223 kin or 518 thermal DPS.
Let's just say, I can perma-AFK-tank 12 Guristas Obliterators with ease, 15 would need more than 10 minutes to kill my Drake. And that with T1 hardners at my current skills. ___
Still want to fly a Cerberus ?
The DPS numbers I put out above are against an actual Guristas NPC and are an average of DPS against shield, armor, and structure. Calculating off raw kinetic damage output, my Cerb setup puts out 298 DPS. However, my drake setup puts out 334 on missles alone.
On the tanking side, a passive-tank Drake can't touch an active tank drake or cerberus. To get the passive shield recharge up to a moderate level, you are forced to replace the BCSs with shield power relays, and that gimps your DPS. Aside from that, the active tank can handle significantly higher incoming damage.
How can you possibly get a drake to 166 regen per second with a passive tank? rigs?
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