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GiantJack
Salvage Team Public-Enemy
7
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:13:11 -
[1] - Quote
if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2467
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:22:59 -
[2] - Quote
Because you wardec the corp, not the player is the official reason, iirc.
Also U is dead, probably no point referencing him. |
GiantJack
Salvage Team Public-Enemy
7
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:32:01 -
[3] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Because you wardec the corp, not the player is the official reason, iirc.
than the rule i mentioned would be bullshit too becuase u cannot join the same corp if u leave it for 2 weeks i think (in war)
afkalt wrote:Also U is dead, probably no point referencing him. sorry i dont get it... or u mean u = you ? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1054
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:37:17 -
[4] - Quote
Umm...
You wardeced a corp that then folded and ceased to exist under your aggression. You Won.
Are you asking for the right to drive those players clean out of the game? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2849
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:44:23 -
[5] - Quote
You DO wardec the Corp not the player. If you have a personal vendetta you can attempt suicide ganks, theft, or other forms of attack.
But I do agree it is too cheap and easy to roll corps. I dont mind people dropping to an npc or social Corp for the duration of a war, but instantly entering or creating another Corp should be looked at.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2407
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Posted - 2015.11.27 14:34:10 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not saying it works in a good way but you should probably change your target selection criteria if you really wanted to get fights out of those decs... |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2041
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Posted - 2015.11.27 15:11:08 -
[7] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp You should always be able to leave a corp that has been wardecced. You should never be forced to fight for a corporation if you have no interest in doing so.
That said, you should not trivially be able to dodge a war by dropping and reforming a new corp thus minutes later resuming the benefits of being in a player corp - that makes a mockery of the whole risk vs. reward of being in a player corp. There should be some penalty or mechanic to discourage this behaviour. Either a hard cap where you have to remain in the NPC corp for the duration of the original war (or 7 days maybe), or perhaps if you join/create a new corp, a kill right is generated against you for the original wardeccing corp with a duration of 7 days.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
700
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Posted - 2015.11.27 15:23:52 -
[8] - Quote
Reported for redundancy. It's not our responsibility to teach you how wardeccing works.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
507
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Posted - 2015.11.27 16:45:51 -
[9] - Quote
GiantJack wrote: its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
Ok, so when you wardec a corp, you also cannot wardec another corp for 30 days either, because balance.
GiantJack wrote: @CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
You don't think that this would make the people attempting to avoid a wardec unhappy? What makes you more special then them?
As previously stated, if you have an issue with an individual person, gank them. If you have an issue with a corp, wardec them. Any corp that's worth wardeccing won't dissolve their corp because they got wardecced by 1 guy.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
438
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Posted - 2015.11.27 17:14:08 -
[10] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days)
All this would do is create LESS content. People would just station spin or not log in until the war is over. Most smaller HS corps don't have the organization, means, or desire to fight a half dozen T3s on any gate they jump through in HS.
If you're in a more industry/PvE focused corp, chances are you simply can't win a fight against a well organized merc corp. Those people would just not play the game if they could avoid decs. |
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
162
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Posted - 2015.11.27 17:41:35 -
[11] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp You should always be able to leave a corp that has been wardecced. You should never be forced to fight for a corporation if you have no interest in doing so. That said, you should not trivially be able to dodge a war by dropping and reforming a new corp thus minutes later resuming the benefits of being in a player corp - that makes a mockery of the whole risk vs. reward of being in a player corp. There should be some penalty or mechanic to discourage this behaviour. Either a hard cap where you have to remain in the NPC corp for the duration of the original war (or 7 days maybe), or perhaps if you join/create a new corp, a kill right is generated against you for the original wardeccing corp with a duration of 7 days.
I agree with this
Same time, make it so you have to be in player corp to do high sec incursion. which I suggest in other thread about nerf high sec incursion. Bam, new risk for high sec carebear |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
658
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Posted - 2015.11.27 18:26:20 -
[12] - Quote
unidenify wrote:Same time, make it so you have to be in player corp to do high sec incursion. which I suggest in other thread about nerf high sec incursion. Bam, new risk for high sec carebear Have you ever run Incursions is the first question I would ask?
I doubt making it a requirement to be in a player corp would change high sec incursions in any noticeable way. While forcing them into player corps may make them potential targets, they would likely be targets that most merc corps would not want to tangle with simply because of the high cost of replacing the ships they would lose.
Even if you did make this a requirement they would simply have an entire series of corps set up and held open by an alts. When war deced they would simply drop corp and rejoin one of the others and continue with life in EvE as normal.
OP You say that people being able to drop corp or move to another makes you an unhappy player, yet you completely ignore the fact that in the simple act of declaring war on them YOU have created and entire group of unhappy players. All you are doing is clearly stating that YOUR happiness with this game is more important than those you war dec and that is the very definition of being selfish.
To a more general comment on the situation. In my years in the game one thing has held constant and that is your ability as a player to move from corp to corp without limits as to why or when and it must always stay that way. If there are any restrictions placed on this freedom of movement during a war dec then they must be balanced by more restrictions on who and when you can declare war. |
Madd Adda
145
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Posted - 2015.11.27 20:59:57 -
[13] - Quote
you can force a corp into war, but you can't make its members fight. OP just wants to easy kills from indy corps that won't/can't fight back.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3970
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Posted - 2015.11.27 23:22:31 -
[14] - Quote
So OP.
Why should it not be possible for a nullsec resident to create a corp without either using an alt or waiting a month? Let's face it, we're all under wardecs all the time. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15260
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 00:01:49 -
[15] - Quote
Hard barriers, especially timers, are not good game design. Instead, just raise the corp creation cost to something non trivial. Maybe make it multiply if you use it too often.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2015.11.28 01:00:07 -
[16] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it There is a huge workload when remaking corp, unless it's a one-man lolcorp. There is a whole lot higher cost of not remaking a corp on wardec, so remaking it is still better, despite huge workload. Here's a revolting solution for you: wardec corps who are actually willing to fight. There are plenty, just don't expect a fight from holing up pussybears like marmite or devils.
GiantJack wrote:its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days) So, basically, you want people to stay in NPC corp forever, because lolcorps (who were probably not going to fight you anyway even if they had to stay docked) made you mad?
GiantJack wrote:@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers? Like, you know, newbie miners you wardecced because you were afraid of someone who actually can fit a gun?
GiantJack wrote:it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp This rule has prevented an exploit, that is a good reason to leave it alone, until new mechanics are implemented which would enable to remove old hacks (like, you know, free corp aggro hack). But until it happens, we're stuck with a hack it is.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hard barriers, especially timers, are not good game design. Instead, just raise the corp creation cost to something non trivial. Maybe make it multiply if you use it too often. It already contains a huge pita for non-lolcorps. Scooping all the POSes, redoing permissions, the cost of offices is also lost and you have to repopulate corp hangars with stuff and persmissions all over again, then re-setup the POSes, just to have some unicellular being to press the concord removal button again on your new corp in 2 days. Trivial? Pressing the concord removal button is trivial, redoing the corp is a major PITA and cost. The problem is that the cost of not doing it could easily go into billions, better fix that. |
O2 jayjay
DERP'S R US
52
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Posted - 2015.11.28 06:02:59 -
[17] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp
They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same.
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
653
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Posted - 2015.11.28 07:33:51 -
[18] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:You DO wardec the Corp not the player. If you have a personal vendetta you can attempt suicide ganks, theft, or other forms of attack.
But I do agree it is too cheap and easy to roll corps. I dont mind people dropping to an npc or social Corp for the duration of a war, but instantly entering or creating another Corp should be looked at.
Pretty much this since you do war dec a group of people within a corp. If there is some personal issues you should use different tools. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2731
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 10:48:17 -
[19] - Quote
CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures.
And if they do not have structures pick your targets better. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1058
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 12:27:08 -
[20] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same.
if they do that, then they may as well just let people pay to restore Concord protection. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
659
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 17:08:44 -
[21] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures. The average war dec is nothing more than paying Concord to look the other way when you kill careless people, or those who do not fully understand what a war dec actually means and structuires in space have very little to do with war decs. Since structures in space have very little to do with the average war dec these new structures will have virtually zero impact on war decs.
Setting that part of the new structures aside I draw your attention to this dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/
Specifically the section titled "Regarding the blueprints themselves: " According to this blog the cost for the blue print for the hull alone for a medium will be 6 billion ISK. How many of the high sec corps are going to be able to afford 6 billion ISK just for the blueprint? These new structures are going to have exactly ZERO affect on the average high sec war dec, their cost alone guarantees that fact.
From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2732
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Posted - 2015.11.29 00:07:49 -
[22] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:The average war dec is nothing more than paying Concord to look the other way when you kill careless people, or those who do not fully understand what a war dec actually means and structuires in space have very little to do with war decs. Since structures in space have very little to do with the average war dec these new structures will have virtually zero impact on war decs. Setting that part of the new structures aside I draw your attention to this dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/ Specifically the section titled "Regarding the blueprints themselves: " According to this blog the cost for the blue print for the hull alone for a medium will be 6 billion ISK. How many of the high sec corps are going to be able to afford 6 billion ISK just for the blueprint? These new structures are going to have exactly ZERO affect on the average high sec war dec, their cost alone guarantees that fact. From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty. If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs.
If you want to kill the person not paying attention, just learn to gank. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2015.11.29 05:47:09 -
[23] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures.
And if they do not have structures pick your targets better.
Unanchoring timer duration was NOT specified in dev blogs. The specified 24 hours is for anchoring. They are referred to as separate timers, so, as of yet, the unanchoring timer duration is unknown.
Well, if it is 24 hours, then hisec will not have structures. Hooray for yet another deathblow to hisec mining, which is pure necrophilia, sodomizing something which has been killed by odyssey and buried by crius. If it is less, it's still loss of rigs every time some unicellular organism pushes concord removal button, so that depends on the usability of unrigged citadel compared to that of rigged citadel.
Donnachadh wrote:From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty.
Rushing social corps without thinking is something which will be very bad. Having only no structures in space requirement promotes their abuse by ganktards - free ganks, at no threat of wardec. Their ridiculous argument of "It's -10.0 anyway" is meaningless due to CCP non-enforcement of alts scrapping exploit (using infinite buddy invites to grab a plex for main and 51 days of playtime on a throwaway gank account). Easy solution would be just to disallow red safety for social corps (which kind of makes sense), but it breaks lowsec - either it's permanent security loss for lowbros to shoot them, or we allow limited lowsec wardec with no security status loss and confuse everyone, or we make them free game in lowsec and they will never go there. Therefore, social corps cannot be fit in without a compete rethinking of war dec mechanics, which is long overdue - it has been like 500% ISK inflation since the costs were introduced, which makes them too dated and simply too low for the deccer, both sides of it can easily avoid any conflict with a fairly high penalty to defender and virtually no penalty for attacker, and with the collapse of the last successful mutual war dec, the current mechanic only serves as the newbie repellent - it simply doesn't hurt anyone else (except maybe a few attackers and Kaarous going full butthurt in this and many other threads). |
O2 jayjay
DERP'S R US
52
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Posted - 2015.11.29 06:19:13 -
[24] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same. if they do that, then they may as well just let people pay to restore Concord protection.
Yes that would work also. Turn it into a isk battle.....NVM that sounds like a horriable idea.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
660
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Posted - 2015.11.29 16:33:43 -
[25] - Quote
Nevyn AuscentI wrote:If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs. First in the dev blog CCP does not indicate if the the blueprints will be originals or copies only. No you cannot assume that they will be BPO's because there are at least 3 items in the game that I know of that are available as single run BPC's only, hello Nestor, Stratios and Astero we are looking at you.
If you have interpreted this correctly you will still have a 1.2 billion ISK investment in the hull alone, 600 million for the BPC and 600 million for materials. And you will still have to add the costs for all the modules, rigs etc that will turn it into something that can be used and at this point I have not seen any information from CCP on the expected costs of those items. So it is not out of the range of possibility that a fully set up medium citadel could cost between 3 and 4 billion ISK. And at that level of investment and considering the risk associated with having one I think it is safe to assume that these citadels will not be popping up in high sec like weeds in an untreated lawn. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 16:57:56 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Nevyn AuscentI wrote:If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs. First in the dev blog CCP does not indicate if the the blueprints will be originals or copies only. No you cannot assume that they will be BPO's because there are at least 3 items in the game that I know of that are available as single run BPC's only, hello Nestor, Stratios and Astero we are looking at you. If you have interpreted this correctly you will still have a 1.2 billion ISK investment in the hull alone, 600 million for the BPC and 600 million for materials. And you will still have to add the costs for all the modules, rigs etc that will turn it into something that can be used and at this point I have not seen any information from CCP on the expected costs of those items. So it is not out of the range of possibility that a fully set up medium citadel could cost between 3 and 4 billion ISK. And at that level of investment and considering the risk associated with having one I think it is safe to assume that these citadels will not be popping up in high sec like weeds in an untreated lawn.
Dev blog states: "Like all Tech I blueprints, they will be seeded from specific NPC corporations through various areas of space, including high-security areas. We want the prices to be that high to keep a long term goal and investment for industrial players, while making sure there is gameplay involved with selling blueprint copies to third parties." And the following picture features copying time as a stat. This together strongly hints BPO. And the first line doesn't sit well with the soe ships line, explicitly saying "Like all Tech I blueprints" and 3 ships are on the very minor side of "all".
ED: CSM Citadel FAQ also says: "How will I build my Citadel?Blueprints will be available on the market." I dare you to find a BPC on the market. Only BPOs are there. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2479
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 17:05:49 -
[27] - Quote
Might want to read this: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/
Estimated prices, mod costs etc etc |
Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
16
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Posted - 2015.11.29 18:55:59 -
[28] - Quote
I think the problem is with you.
Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that.
If you wanted to remove their structures in space, you accomplished that if they pack up, otherwise you can shoot them.
If you just wanted some easy kills done with ships that are more shiny than a catalyst that is your problem! You want other players that are not interested that much in ship-vs-ship pvp to just roll over and let you kill them.
Pick targets for war decs that give you actual fights or go pirating in low sec or wormholes if you need this thing you all claim to be the "content" your are looking for. If you don't have the balls to do that - why should CCP help you overcompensate? Why demand the content gets delivered on a silver platter?
"Wahwahwah, I paid CONCORD some ISK, CCP you have to force those miners to let me shoot them!" |
Iain Cariaba
2072
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 21:13:10 -
[29] - Quote
Varyah wrote:Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that. Oh look, you answered your own question. Not all PvP in EvE requires a target lock. Economic warfare does exist here.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2015.11.30 03:28:58 -
[30] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Varyah wrote:Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that. Oh look, you answered your own question. Not all PvP in EvE requires a target lock. Economic warfare does exist here. Newbies in retrievers without even a single foreman link have about as much effect on economy as house cats on dow jones. Let's face it, if it wasn't worth defending, than it had no economical impact whatsoever, so it wasn't economic warfare, it was just routine attempt to feel good about griefing hisec newbies out of the game. |
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