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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
368
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Posted - 2015.11.28 01:01:18 -
[1] - Quote
So all too often we get people coming in here talking about things like mining or PI or moon-goo as an isk-faucet they then talk about ships exploding as an isk sink
I would love to see a definition of an isk faucet and an isk sink (and perhaps a goods faucet and goods sink and possibly goods conversion) included in CCP falcon's sticky at the top of F&I
Quote:just to be clear:
bob mines some ore - this is a goods faucet (ore into the economy), and isk-neutral bob then refines this ore into minerals - this is a minor goods sink (wastage assuming he's not refining at 100%) and a major goods conversion (ore->minerals), isk neutral bob sells his minerals to fred - this is a goods movement and isk movement (goods go from bob to fred, isk goes from fred to bob) fred then manufactures his minerals into a hull and some modules - this is a minor goods sink (wastage again), minor isk sink (manufacturing fees) and a major goods conversion (minerals->ship+fitting) fred then insures his ship - this is an isk sink (isk gets payed to an NPC who will never use it, therefore is removed from the economy) fred flies his ship somewhere else - this is not goods movement (fred still owns the ship) fred then gets blown up - this is a goods sink (ship + some mods removed from game) fred gets insurance payout - this is an isk faucet (an NPC who will never run out of money gives bob some isk, thereby injects it into the economy)
as well as: links to the 'commonly proposed idea' threads a suggestion that players try to think of ways that their idea could be abused before bringing it to the forums, or acknowledge its weaknesses any other suggestions for things you'd like to see up there?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1055
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Posted - 2015.11.28 01:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Other than the abuse clause it sounds reasonable.
I would agree with the abuse clause except the answer there is always 'alts'. It's an extremely rare mechanic that does not get abused by alts. Alts are why we can't have nice things. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
918
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Posted - 2015.11.28 01:38:57 -
[3] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos, don't forget to talk about "mineral sinks" and "moon-poo sinks" which I think belong there too.
Oh and +2.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
369
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Posted - 2015.11.28 12:31:39 -
[4] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Other than the abuse clause it sounds reasonable.
I would agree with the abuse clause except the answer there is always 'alts'. It's an extremely rare mechanic that does not get abused by alts. Alts are why we can't have nice things.
fair enough comment, although I would temper it with - they're paying extra or playing their main less to have alts
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
369
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Posted - 2015.11.28 12:33:38 -
[5] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Xe'Cara'eos, don't forget to talk about "mineral sinks" and "moon-poo sinks" which I think belong there too.
Oh and +2.
can I not just lump them in as goods/commodities? I'll aim to expand my definitions this evening.
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2850
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Posted - 2015.11.28 16:34:17 -
[6] - Quote
You forgot that sales tax and brokers fees are isk sinks.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
659
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Posted - 2015.11.28 16:34:34 -
[7] - Quote
I am not against your idea but turning to the ISK faucet thingy here are some thoughts.
High sec missions are oft targeted as a faucet and yet those same people will defend their ability to make obscene amounts of ISK doing other activities outside high sec.
Incursions are oft times stated as a faucet, usually by those who are making as much or more per hour solo ratting, or running anoms in nul or worm holes.
Ratting / anoms in null and Incursions are oft stated as faucets mainly by high sec players that are tired of their income sources being singled out as the worst faucets in the game.
So in reality before we can post anything in a sticky about faucets we have to be able to define what an ISK faucet actually is. Setting aside personal opinions on the matter does anyone have an idea, or a formula that can be applied equally across ALL activities in ALL areas of EvE space and can be used to accurately define an ISK faucet?
And the answer to the obvious question is no I do not have any ideas on how to properly define an ISK faucet. At a personal level every time I think I have one I could propose and then I am challenged by RL friends to test it on their situation and it fails miserable in the ability to apply it equally to all areas of space and to all activities. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2850
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Posted - 2015.11.28 17:10:20 -
[8] - Quote
isk faucet
Isk sink
Bounties and mission and incursion rewards are ALL faucets. LP are neither, but since spending LP often comes along with spending isk, they are generally considered a sink.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
921
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Posted - 2015.11.28 21:16:24 -
[9] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:elitatwo wrote:Xe'Cara'eos, don't forget to talk about "mineral sinks" and "moon-poo sinks" which I think belong there too.
Oh and +2. can I not just lump them in as goods/commodities? I'll aim to expand my definitions this evening.
That is all up to you, I was merley suggesting since people are always confusing the two but mineral faucets are not really hurting the game.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
370
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Posted - 2015.11.29 21:51:15 -
[10] - Quote
thanks Daichi Yamato for those links! They're now in the quote.
thanks elitatwo for the suggestions of adding goods faucets/sinks in, though I've not been overly specific, I hope it's reasonable
keep the thoughts and comments coming guys
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2015.11.29 22:46:10 -
[11] - Quote
Don't forget the risk-reward equation, which all of EVE is designed around. Low risk? Better not give much, and your ship shouldn't be in serious danger. Higher risk? Assuming you get away with whatever you were after, it should pay well, but the chances of it going bad should be significant and require thought and planning.
And everything in between.
A signature :o
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
373
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Posted - 2015.11.30 14:05:40 -
[12] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi ty for that point about risk/reward!
perhaps I ought to add in the point that NOWHERE in EVE is supposed to be entirely safe?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.11.30 15:13:47 -
[13] - Quote
ccp post stats on isk sinks and faucets. The last one was a dev blog called eve economy update eve vegas 2015 report found
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-economy-update-eve-vegas-2015-report/
LP is a big sink |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1116
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Posted - 2015.11.30 16:29:34 -
[14] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:
So in reality before we can post anything in a sticky about faucets we have to be able to define what an ISK faucet actually is. Setting aside personal opinions on the matter does anyone have an idea, or a formula that can be applied equally across ALL activities in ALL areas of EvE space and can be used to accurately define an ISK faucet?
I... wow. Talk about missing the point.
An ISK faucet is anything that introduces NEW isk into the game. That's it. There's no formula, and it's not dependent on any quantitative value.
It is about as dead simple as you could possibly get, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the efficacy of any activity as a method of earning money.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
373
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Posted - 2015.11.30 17:37:59 -
[15] - Quote
LP themselves are not a sink, they are a currency LP stores are an isk and lp sink
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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