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Kagutsuchi
Caldari PharmaDyne Technologies
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Posted - 2007.01.28 07:49:00 -
[91]
Having read this thread upto now, it would seem there are 2 specific target "markets" for this new ship.
So, why not make it 2 ships.
A Tier 1 Capital mining assistance ship, for players in small corps and mainly empire based. Purposely designed to make low sec mining more viable but at the same time, not a huge leap forward in the field.
A Tier 2 Capital Mining ship that is everything the Tier 1 ship is (almost) but bigger and better. It would serve the bigger alliances in 0.0 space.
Perhaps the Tier 2 will be lo sec restricted jump capable and the Tier 1 uses normal propulsion for high sec movement.
Whatever happens, I hope to hell and back that CCP make it Nigh on impossible for Macro'ers to make use of!! Death to AFK miners!!! A freind by your side is like an army at your back. |
Angelic Resolution
Arcanum Defence Forces
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Posted - 2007.01.28 13:02:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Angelic Resolution on 28/01/2007 12:59:10 buglo
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Angelic Resolution
Arcanum Defence Forces
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Posted - 2007.01.28 13:02:00 -
[93]
Would also be good if the refinery had a shield radius of 25km's. Like a POS shield, but it requires fuels. It also has an on/off button and cannot be activated whilst moving. If it's off normal shields kick back in
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.28 20:28:00 -
[94]
Any combination of freighteresque cargohold or transport ability with jumpdrives is improbable, as it would severely lessen the risk involved with logistics and could replace freighters in total if anything else then minerals are possible cargo. ' My guess goes with mobile refining ability, gang bonuses, and maybe projected forcefields (if those get in in time) for the miners it accompanies in a belt as additional ability. No ability to carry huge amounts (so no large cargobay or corp hangar, but only a refining hangar that needs to be no larger then a full refining cycle), also no ability to dock at pos.
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
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sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.28 20:29:00 -
[95]
the thing just has to have a mobile refinery. Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.28 20:56:00 -
[96]
I'd much rather have some sort of freighter-hauler that can only contain mineral, or some sort of ore compressor that compress the volume of ore. Say 30,000 m3 of cargo, but the compressor will make the volume of any ore down to 0.1 m3. This makes it an ideal mining hauler but doesnt remove the current role of carriers for logistics.
Have a mobile refinery would be to REAL miners totally useless, unless its equipment is as good as a station (35%) without maximum efficiency (a la POS, max 75%). The loss in ISK/hour would be totally unacceptable. I am also hoping the requirements for this capital ORE ship will be very high (I am guessing Exhumer V, Mining Barge V, Refinery Efficiency 5, any-race Industrial V, Transport Ship IV, Advanced Spaceship Command V, Leadership V) something of the sort, so that it isnt piloted by anybody.
A shield in exchange of strontium usage is a nice idea, but it should act a little bit like the siege module for dreads, so that when you activate it you're stuck there for a while, giving a well organized fleet the chance to hit it. What I mean is it would be like a tower, only the capital ore ship could be hit, nothing inside the shield could.
The biggest trouble for miners is hauling usually, but I'd haul 2 jumps for every full load every day over losing 25% of mine hard mined ore.
My 2ó
Click on my sig to read it ! |
Kal Azmir
Gallente CHON THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.01.28 21:13:00 -
[97]
I'd like to think a bit simple here. ORE is a mining based corporation, they make money on mining and supplying the minerals to most of the big eve consumers (NPC corporations). If you think about how much they need to mine, you just can't image huge fleets of Hulks hauling stuff to POS (wait, they don't have any, right?) so they need to refine stuff on the spot, therefore their main aim is to have stuff refined in the systems they have sovereignty over but have no stations there.
However, the most needed mineral in eve universe is tritanium. And we all know mining in in good amounts is just a pain. If you image how enormous quantities they need to mine its unthinkable that they mine with current fleet of barges and exhumers. Therefore the logical way that would also fall into the universe of eve is two ships:
1)One that can refine on the spot and haul minerals. Also it'd have bonuses to mining yield of ships in the gang.
Skills needed: Cap. ships I,Mining Barge V, Refining and Refining eff. V.
2)A capital mining ship that can mine low ores (eg. Omber max, the "big roids")in huge quantities. Also, it (as other capital ships) will not be allowed in high sec. Actually, I'd just make it 0.0-0.1 ship (some excuse may be made like its waste is too toxins to operate in higher sec systems...). This would result in much more production done in 0.0 space and less mining in empire space.
We all know that if you wanna produce in 0.0 its much easier to mine precious minerals in 0.0, sell them, buy loads of tritanium and other low minerals and make then into modules and reprocess them in 0.0 to get the minerals back.This would solve most of the problems of production in 0.0.
Skills needed: Cap. ships III,Mining V, Mining Barge V, Exhumers V...
Both of these ships should be able to make jumps, however more at a rate of Dread rather than Carrier, after all they are industrial vessels. Please no manufacturing ships, you can always easily manufacture at POS.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents
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Aero089
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.29 00:12:00 -
[98]
Just like a carrier is able to unload frigates for other pilots to use, in a mining perspective it may be handy to have a capital ship capable of storing mining-class ships. To avoid abuse of this system, if the system allows it, it might be best to use a storage capacity reduction for ships requiring the Mining Barge skill.
It's a shame that that would exclude smaller mining vessels such as the Osprey and Scythe, but it would allow for rapid transport and deployment of a mining operation. Also allow it to scoop these ships up again please ;)
A tank, Mining Vessel deployer and storage hub. Sounds good enough right?
Naturally a Jump Drive is in order, and storage capacity to serve as a mobile hub.
A mobile refiner sounds good and all, but as stated before, station holders are not going to like the idea of one of their most important incomes being taken away and especially for the alliances that promote free use of space, it will be a major hit for their wallets.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.29 03:26:00 -
[99]
IMHO it will not need Exhumers V, as it is a capital class ship and no other capital ship need a tech 2 skill tree. Level 5 skills the same as other capital quite likely.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.29 03:32:00 -
[100]
Edited by: voidvim on 29/01/2007 03:31:19 opps double post
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.01.29 03:38:00 -
[101]
Ah, but it is an industrial capital. Big difference and a departure from the norm.
Other cap ships need Battleship V. An industrial character--the ones most likely to use this ship--likely do not have such an advanced level of battleship.
Exhumers V, on the other hand, is a more likely skill to be possessed, and takes a similar time to train up. It would be a suitable prereq, in any case. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO / Acting Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.29 10:36:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Ah, but it is an industrial capital. Big difference and a departure from the norm.
Other cap ships need Battleship V. An industrial character--the ones most likely to use this ship--likely do not have such an advanced level of battleship.
Exhumers V, on the other hand, is a more likely skill to be possessed, and takes a similar time to train up. It would be a suitable prereq, in any case.
But the person MOST likely to pilot this ship isn't the miner - but surely the Mining Director...
If so, then would not this be a Mining Command Ship Carrier/Hauler/Refiner - (actually, perhaps NOT Carrier)
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WarMongeer
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Posted - 2007.01.29 11:21:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Ah, but it is an industrial capital. Big difference and a departure from the norm.
Other cap ships need Battleship V. An industrial character--the ones most likely to use this ship--likely do not have such an advanced level of battleship.
Exhumers V, on the other hand, is a more likely skill to be possessed, and takes a similar time to train up. It would be a suitable prereq, in any case.
But the person MOST likely to pilot this ship isn't the miner - but surely the Mining Director...
If so, then would not this be a Mining Command Ship Carrier/Hauler/Refiner - (actually, perhaps NOT Carrier)
I don't see how you'd find many people who want to fly this thing as most people in this thread would describe it. A mobile refinery, that during mining operations the pilot can't even mine himself? He sits there and...refines?
For people who think mining is a little on the slow side, how slow do you think it'd be for the poor ******* stuck on the pilot side of a 3 hour op in this thing?
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 11:23:00 -
[104]
I HAVE IT....
Why not a Titan sized mineing ship that ya have an doomsday style miner that ya line up with a roid field and ya just mien the whole firgign bel tin one shot and refine it in the hold
witch will tka eup a mega amount of cap and a bit of fuel thne ya move onto the next belt untiltl there is not a roid left in the system... fitted with a jumpdrive of course could effectively mine out sevral entire systems...
there ya go... the uber investment for an industrial alliance not nerfed byt the evils of CP's nerf machine and complained about by everyone
who will sighn for this ?
/sighned by me
Sig (partially) nerfed. Only one image allowed, and that one image has to be under 400x120, and below 24,000 bytes. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
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Helmut 314
Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 11:50:00 -
[105]
"Vulcanus" Capital Industrial ship.
Special ability : 99% reduction of CPU needs for Capital Stripminers and Capital Ice Harvesters 99% reduction of CPU needs for Mobile Industry Modules
Skillreqs like a Freighter, plus Jumpdrive skills. Able to jump about as efficiently and far as a Mothership. 2,5M m3 Ship maintenance bay. 1M m3 Corporate hangar bay. 900k m3 Cargo bay, limited to minerals, ice products, ice and ore only. Unable to use gates. Four turret slots, five mids, no lowslots. 0.4 and lower only.
Capital Stripminer. Requires a capital mining crystal to work, cycle time of 600 seconds, yield 5 times that of a normal strip miner per cycle. Capital mining crystals only made available for Veldspar, Scordite, Plagioclase, Pyroxeres, Omber and Kernite.
Capital Ice Harvester. Cycle time of 600 seconds, yields ten icicles per cycle.
Mobile refinery module. 50% base efficiency refining module. Mobile refining skill allows up to 75% total efficiency, ore specific skills up to 85% total efficiency.
Mobile ship assembly array. Allows building of tech 1 ships of up to battlecruiser size at 25% longer build times. Ships are automatically assembled and stored in the Ship maintenance array when the job finishes.
Mobile module assembly array. Allows building any t1 module or ammunition type at 25% increased build times.
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Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.29 15:38:00 -
[106]
The biggest barrier to industry in 0.0 is lowend mineral availability. It simply takes too long to mine the required amounts of lowend ore, and the price differance between low-end and high-end ores means it it quicker and cheaper to mine and sell high-ends to buy and import low-ends from empire in Carriers.
I would like to see an industrial ship that can swallow entire roids at once with an EXTREMELY low refine rate (10% max).
This way, if you attempted to 'eat' a Bistot roid, you might only get a few hundred units of Bistot, but if you ate a Veldspar roid, you would get 10-15 million units of Veldspar. The ORE would still have to be refined at a station.
Industrialists would be able to acquire massive amounts of trit for production without being forced to import from empire. If balanced correctly, the Hulk can remain be the most profitable ship on a purely ISK/Hour basis... the new Capitol will only be of use to hardcore Industrialists who need millions upon millions of low-end minerals a day to operate.
As for the ship itself, I would make it EXTREMELY tough, jump capable and immune to EW like the Motherships and Titans. However it would take 20-30 Minutes to digest a roid and be completely vunerable for that time period, unable to move or warp until the ship has finished its meal.
I would give it a massive ORE silo, and BS sized cargo hold to prevent it being used as a freighter. I would also give it a ship bay big enough to carry a single Hulk or a couple or Retrievers/Skiffs.
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.01.29 16:25:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric
But the person MOST likely to pilot this ship isn't the miner - but surely the Mining Director...
If so, then would not this be a Mining Command Ship Carrier/Hauler/Refiner - (actually, perhaps NOT Carrier)
True, but in my experience, mining director-types can usually pilot a barge for when they aren't directing. Granted, there are probably a fair number of people with command skills that tack on Director, but I'm willing to bet a fair number of people go down the Mining Foreman route to enhance their barge mining and then go Director as well.
Don't get me wrong; Mining Director V is a definite prereq for this thing. But as mentioned, Racial Battleship V is a prereq for all the other capitals (except freighters, but they don't count ), so at least Mining Barge V should be required for this thing, and Exhumers V is probably a more likely candidate for the "maxed racial big ship skill" role since it is ORE 'racial' still. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO / Acting Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Chedburn
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.29 20:11:00 -
[108]
They need to do 3 things to be worthwhile in my opinion.
-Haul -Tank -Mine
Although I think it would be awesome to have 6-8 high slots for strip miners I can't see that being added in. But I am hoping for at least 2-3 strip miners so it can mine the same amount as a covetor or hulk. Or maybe 3 high slots which CAN hold strip miners, OR gang mods depending on what the user wants.
Small mining ops - Chuck on 3 strip miners and mine with your fellow gang mates and haul the ore made. Large mining ops - Replace the 3 strip miners for gang bonus mods to increase your gangs yield.
I would personaly love to see 2-3 of these capitals in one belt at a time. From the sounds of it that won't be happening unless they can fit strip miners as only one of the capitals would be useful for gang mods. This ship will give miners something new to aim for if they can hold strip miners, otherwise it will just be for big alliances only, maybe one in ten hardcore miners will aim for it...
Or maybe it can't hold strip miners, but Miner II's. 8 Miner II's would look awesome on a ship like that.
PLEASEEeee!!!! Let them be able to mine too!!!!!!!
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William Hamilton
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Posted - 2007.01.29 21:38:00 -
[109]
Whatever it is, it should make use of "Advanced Spaceship Command"
That skill is underused...
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Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:14:00 -
[110]
The problem with a massive bulk low-end miner is that it'd instapop every roid it touches. We're all willing and able to mine plenty of low ends in 0.0, there's just not enough of them to mine.
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slabby
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:46:00 -
[111]
the problem i see atm is that it either can't mine and flag as a gang support ship with a refinery, in that case mining barge skills would be rather useless and on the other side it could mine, but if it were decent enough for people to actually use it it would indeed pop a roid in 1 cycle which probably be like 6 minutes or so and even then (hoping for double the range of strip miners) it would still be rather limited in space.
so either the roids need to increase drastically in volume or the strip miners have to stop mining the minute the roid is depleted otherwise it would be insane to use it except for roids that haven't been mind in a long long time
additional, who is ccp aiming at here? gang support members, miners, industrialists or haulers? each of which is a part of the mining cycle.
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Andrus Delai
Mayven Omni Gestalt
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Posted - 2007.01.30 00:41:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Andrus Delai on 30/01/2007 00:42:28
Originally by: Halada I'd much rather have some sort of freighter-hauler that can only contain mineral, or some sort of ore compressor that compress the volume of ore. Say 30,000 m3 of cargo, but the compressor will make the volume of any ore down to 0.1 m3. This makes it an ideal mining hauler but doesnt remove the current role of carriers for logistics.
Why shouldn't it remove the logistics role of carriers? Carriers are combat vessels. There should be logistical capital ships.
Quote: Have a mobile refinery would be to REAL miners totally useless, unless its equipment is as good as a station (35%) without maximum efficiency (a la POS, max 75%). The loss in ISK/hour would be totally unacceptable.
It depends on how far you are from the nearest usable refinery and how friendly that space is. You could easily lose a lot of ore having an industrial popped. And when that happens you also need to get a new ship out to the op. For large alliances, this isn't a problem. For the rest of the players, it is.
Also, you are not factoring in the lost revenue from the players who are hauling instead of mining. If you have a higher gross yield, a smaller refining percentage can give you more net minerals. Of course, if the refining percentage is horrid it won't be used at all.
Quote: I am also hoping the requirements for this capital ORE ship will be very high (I am guessing Exhumer V, Mining Barge V, Refinery Efficiency 5, any-race Industrial V, Transport Ship IV, Advanced Spaceship Command V, Leadership V) something of the sort, so that it isnt piloted by anybody.
It will be on par with the other capital ships. It'll be hard enough.
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Andrus Delai
Mayven Omni Gestalt
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Posted - 2007.01.30 00:44:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Ah, but it is an industrial capital. Big difference and a departure from the norm.
Other cap ships need Battleship V. An industrial character--the ones most likely to use this ship--likely do not have such an advanced level of battleship.
Exhumers V, on the other hand, is a more likely skill to be possessed, and takes a similar time to train up. It would be a suitable prereq, in any case.
But the person MOST likely to pilot this ship isn't the miner - but surely the Mining Director...
If so, then would not this be a Mining Command Ship Carrier/Hauler/Refiner - (actually, perhaps NOT Carrier)
Perhaps this will be the first of a new class of capital ships that will require Battlecruiser 5?
Andrus
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insanebe
Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
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Posted - 2007.01.30 13:12:00 -
[114]
no high sec capitals that isk farmers/macroers can abuse pls... ....yes low sec mining does need a boost and the lack of nearby refining station is a major factor in looking for somewhere to mine.... ....so i think a mobile refiner capital able to equip the mining command modules would be cool......mining fighter drones ? lol knowledge is power.... guard it well |
Lars Intarestum
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Posted - 2007.01.30 16:44:00 -
[115]
Most of what I'd like to see has already been said. Just combine them here...
- An ore preprocesser. Slice off the rock and leave the unrefined metal. Compresses Ore for easier hauling. Not neccessarily needs to be the hauling ship itself, but makes it so that it's easier to haul large amounts of Ore.
- In space transfer. No need to mine into a Jet can so long as you're 20km from Big Bertha. You create a link with the ship and your ore goes directly into Big Bertha's hull or it goes straight into the hauling ship.
- Mining Link Bonuses. Give a bonus for Mining Links for those Mining Directors.
Now, I'd like to see two versions... A High-sec, limited one. It would have the above things but maybe limited to one Gang link and traditional jump-gate navigation and not enough hauling space to be ideal, so you would still need haulers. Then a low-sec one with a Jump drive and maybe can use all 3 mining Links, with enough hauling space to be worth a crap and a hanger for a couple of barges.
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Taran Summers
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:14:00 -
[116]
Why does it have to have new toys?
I'd be happy with a larger mining barge. Something with 6 hi's that can take strip miners, more lows for cargo expanders or miner upgrades depending on if I'm working alone or with a truck, and a 50" plasma with a copy of alien on loop so I remember not to go examine the strange wrecks we pass occasionally.
As long as we're wishing though, I'd like truck drones that constantly ferry ore to the nearest station.
Or my ultimate dream:
Chribba-Class Dreadnought
Goes into asteroid siege mode. Only ship that can carry the Chribbeam(tm). A giant tractor that sucks any roid into the processing maw that opens when the beam is activated. Fires once every 10 minutes, completely draining the cap. But pops any roid it hits.
+20% to veld yield per level, since it is Chribba-class.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:50:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Taran Summers Chribba-Class Dreadnought
Goes into asteroid siege mode. Only ship that can carry the Chribbeam(tm). A giant tractor that sucks any roid into the processing maw that opens when the beam is activated. Fires once every 10 minutes, completely draining the cap. But pops any roid it hits.
+20% to veld yield per level, since it is Chribba-class.
Interesting with the bonus to the yield if it pops any roid it hits Should be a bonus to cycle time rather
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 18:49:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Taran Summers
Chribba-Class Dreadnought
Goes into asteroid siege mode. Only ship that can carry the Chribbeam(tm). A giant tractor that sucks any roid into the processing maw that opens when the beam is activated. Fires once every 10 minutes, completely draining the cap. But pops any roid it hits.
+20% to veld yield per level, since it is Chribba-class.
THE CHRIBBINATORÖ
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Taran Summers
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Posted - 2007.01.30 19:18:00 -
[119]
The bonus to yield would increase the yield above what the roid contains. But just for you Chribba.
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Andrus Delai
Mayven Omni Gestalt
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Posted - 2007.01.30 22:06:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Taran Summers Why does it have to have new toys?
I'd be happy with a larger mining barge.
We already know that it's not going to be a mining ship.
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