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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Other Minion
Intoxicated Endeavors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 08:18:00 -
[241]
I dont think anyone has suggested this but it would be cool if it could jump the gang with it like a titan. Would allow mining groups to move safely under the cover of a capital ship always.
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Danniels Jack
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:46:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Broken Star I think it's about time CCP shared a little more information regarding the ORE capital ship.
I suggest all miners go on strike until such time as information is provided. I suggest you give me all your Hulk, mining Crystals and Strip miners II's just in case you are tempted.
Seriously though I have seen very little regarding this ship and the components that are supposed to be in Rev III.
How about you guys share the love now Rev II is out CCP. Make my week.
P.S. If normal Capital ships require Battleship 5, I should Imagen a capital ORE ship will require Exhumer 5, not as you guys suggest, mining barge.
I dont think ccp will divulge any info about an ORE capital ship if they are going to make one (CCP - Take note, this is a cool idea) if they are going to introduce one, it will be kept under wraps until the last possible moment and do a grand announcement and unveil it. This way if it is going to be put in the game, the market will stablize quickly for the ship itself as not everyone will have the immediate skills required.
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Moon Dogg
Gallente Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.25 01:34:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Danniels Jack I dont think ccp will divulge any info about an ORE capital ship if they are going to make one (CCP - Take note, this is a cool idea) if they are going to introduce one, it will be kept under wraps until the last possible moment and do a grand announcement and unveil it. This way if it is going to be put in the game, the market will stablize quickly for the ship itself as not everyone will have the immediate skills required.
Oh, but * I * will. Yess, My Preciousssss, we will loves the ORE ships when they comes outs, GOLLUM!
*********************************** "My God, it's full of roids..." |
Delusion 'Fel
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.07.25 11:53:00 -
[244]
after reading this thread, apparently i think way tooo small.
I was just thinking we'd be looking at maybe a 4th or 5th hard point for miners, maybe a missle hardpoint or 2 for self defence and maybe 7500m3 cargo bay space with a little extra support for gang mods lol.
ahh well keep the ideas coming, its interesting to see them develop, and id be very interested to see what comes of it all.
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Lucio Joe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.25 15:29:00 -
[245]
If the ore capital ship cant mine it will be like a carrier without fighters or a dread without weapons slots. I have been training mining skills like exhumers to 5 for months, and now what? im going to sit in a belt mining nothing?
I think it should have some kind of capital miners and big cargo Only low sec ship (jump capable)
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.07.25 17:34:00 -
[246]
With the intoduction of the POS-based Cyno Generator arrays, having the ship be jump-capable would work well. You'll always have an emergency exit point for the ship. That means it does not have to keep an Uber-tank - just enough to tank a rat spawn. That frees up the role of Tanker, which is a rather thankless job anyway. At present, the Tanker is just an added cost of mining in 0.0 as compared to empire.
I've read the responses to my earlier post where I said it should not refine, because doing so would get around Alliance taxes. I still feel this way, but I admit I may easily lose that argument. Just keep in mind that there is a possible way to circumvert the Alliance's needs, and since they are the ones who put up the infrastructure, maintain it and protect your ass from hostiles you had better contribute to the Alliance in some form. My paranoid mind tells me I'll see rich and highly skilled characters going off solo and just being a leech on their corps/alliances if the thing can refine.
The introduction of the Triage module for Carriers might carry over into a Refine module for the Ore Capital ship.
Bonuses to Gang Modules, as well as protection bonuses such as using the Triage module and Capital Shield/Armor transfers would allow it to protect barges from small gank squads. Gang module bonuses for mining modules is pretty much a given.
The ship maint bay so that you can carry barges probably won't happen because then all you have is a Carrier that can refine. If you want to do that, just make a Refining Module that can fit on any capital ship and don't bother making a new ship at all.
Things like a Factory Ship and Science Ship don't really make a whole lot of sense to me. You can do all those things at a POS, and they tend to be time intensive. Therefore what are you gonna do? Log in and sit cloaked while you make some Torps or get a few hours research done on a BPO?
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.25 17:35:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Lord Loom on 25/07/2007 17:38:18 the question is, do they want it to be a ship that actively and noticeably empowers mining ops, or yet another ship you try to keep in a safe spot, only to be jumped in for refining or to haul.
They refer to it as an industrial ship but I don't think it will have anything to do with manufacturing beyond refining and transporting minerals, and it will not be a Veldnaught Mk.2 either (sorry Chribba)
the "active" ship needs to have the defense and firepower to not only take on belt spawns but also deal with aggressive players while adding enough to a mining gang that you want to bring this instead of another miner or defender ship - ie. a ship that makes people stay in belts and fight aggressors as opposed to jump at the first sign of danger
not sure if the "passive" ship is really needed except for ninja mining in areas where you don't have access to a POS or refining services in an outpost
things I can think of that could go on an ORE capship: mining gang link bonuses maybe some sort of tank bonuses for mining gang spacious drone bay for self-defense mobile refinery hangar- and/or ship maintenance array to refit ships in space jump drive sizeable cargo bay and good jump range to take over low-sec hauling from carriers and provide an alternative to jump-bridging freighters
PS: Princess Jodi, I think the ability to refine shouldn't be restricted - people who manage to "illegally" get one of these into hostile space or space of an alliance which does not allow using these ships should be able to refine just as much as said alliances have the option to go for the ship and take it out ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
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SugarFr33
Gallente Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.07.25 20:04:00 -
[248]
I just skipped to this page of this post so havent read it all, but if its a cap ship i wud think maybe something allong the lines of a carrier with drone skills and maybe a capital mining drone? like the size of a small barge or sumthin
RPM Recruitment Thread |
Captain Agemman
Minmatar Legio Ultra
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Posted - 2007.07.25 21:33:00 -
[249]
No, mining fighters are wrong. And a capital ore sucker is wrong too imho.
The ORE capital shouldn't be a mining op by itself, it should be a massive reinforcement of your mining op.
- 50% to effectiveness of mining gang links per level
- 10% shield resistances for ships requiring the skill mining barge/exhumer per level
- range bonus to capital shield transporters
- ability to fit triage module
- ability to fit mobile refinery
1. would with mindlink and maxed gang links be a 50% cycle time reduction instead of 22.5% achievable with a battlecruiser. Yes, this is a massive increase in yield of your mining op. But this makes it, from a financial standpoint, worthwhile to bring defender. So at the end of the day, split between the gang, you don't really earn that much more.
2. increases the survivability of your mining barges. Remove the paper tank from them. Combined with 3. and 4. this capital gives a mining op the ability to keep your barges around long enough for the defenders to actually DEFEND your mining op (short of large bubbles + camp at every gate in 0.0 --> gives lowsec-capable protection).
5. is the logistics bling-bling
Compared to other capitals relatively short jump range, it is a civilian ship after all. Drone bay 50-75m3. Low/No-Sec only ofc.
Conclusion: Deploying this beast should let you have protection around without massive profit cuts, keep your miners alive and ease logistics. No giant veld sucking.
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Kirjava
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.25 23:35:00 -
[250]
I also skipped quite a bit so apologies if this is already mentioned. We hope this will be a mobile refinery - yet we have problems with it being a replacement to outposts. A compromise could be a ship that compresses the mined ore into drone alloys or some new thing like "purified xxx ore type" taking up 1/1000 of the space or something with the same basic stats as a carrier but dropping the dronebay in favour of additional cargo space. And I like previous posters ideas so this would be complementary to that
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Canti Ludan
S-Mart LLC
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Posted - 2007.07.25 23:40:00 -
[251]
My 0.02 isk on the subject.
> Frighter sized > no hanger > Jump drive > 400k M3 cargo
> 1 Mid slot to either go factory or refinery
Modules being Small refine(100% ice/30% ore slow cycle time) Med refine (100% ice/ 50% ore mid cycle time) Large refine (75% ice/ 75% ore fast cycle time)
Then one for each factory job like POS Module stoping at med ship.
How its going to be used is another story... Most will probly just load it up jump to tation refine at station jump back....
Canti
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xeom
Coagulated
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Posted - 2007.07.26 02:41:00 -
[252]
So basically all of you want a ship that will never die?
Jump freighter would be totally broken and you guys know this.
--- Coagulated
-Videos- Viciously Delicious New! Non-Entity
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Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.26 09:46:00 -
[253]
problem with ore-capital:
jump-freighter will be overpowered
refinery will either make station upgrades (5% base yield ftw?!?) useless or be completely useless itself
production ship will be nuts or overpowered (depending on prod speed)
better gang-bonus is not enough of a role for a CAPITAL ship.
what it needs are more roles.
possible roles are:
logistics centre - 250km tractor beams; maybe a 1mil "ore hangar" which can only hold ore
group tank - capital sized grid/tank as well as a large bonus to capital shield transfers (more than carrier so it canr each whole belt) and strong tank
gang bonus - native bonus like titans (example: 20% to mining laser range and lock range of barges&exhumers) and/or command ship - like bonus to mining link modules
mining itself - as most ppl who will fly this will have immense mining skills it would be unfair to not allow them to mine itself. with its gang links active it should mien about as much as a hulk without gang links (so hulks add mroe to total mien than 2nd or 3rd cap).
other idea would be to give the capital ship tiered crystalls which would be extremely efficient for veldspar and scordite but get worse and worse the more expensive the ore gets. lets kill those damn veld-moons in 0.0!
to solve the problem with strip miners and gang links it would be sensible to make capital mining turrets which need turret slots so you can give the ship 8 high slots but still cap its mining ability to say 3 lasers.
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Balcura
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Posted - 2007.07.28 00:49:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Balcura on 28/07/2007 00:50:17
Originally by: xeom
Jump freighter would be totally broken and you guys know this.
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane problem with ore-capital:
jump-freighter will be overpowered.
If thats the case then why can you bring a freighter through a jump bridge? Your logic is flawed...
Basically what everyone wants is a "carrier/dread" ability to carry things with jump drives and the cargo capacity of a freighter.
Not unreasonable based on the changes that have been made to the 0.0 POS systems and jumping long distances in general. There are a lot of good ideas running around out there and CCP will take the best ones and use them, add a few of thier own and make another ship.
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Boma Airaken
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
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Posted - 2007.07.28 01:47:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane problem with ore-capital:
jump-freighter will be overpowered
refinery will either make station upgrades (5% base yield ftw?!?) useless or be completely useless itself
production ship will be nuts or overpowered (depending on prod speed)
better gang-bonus is not enough of a role for a CAPITAL ship.
what it needs are more roles.
possible roles are:
logistics centre - 250km tractor beams; maybe a 1mil "ore hangar" which can only hold ore
group tank - capital sized grid/tank as well as a large bonus to capital shield transfers (more than carrier so it canr each whole belt) and strong tank
gang bonus - native bonus like titans (example: 20% to mining laser range and lock range of barges&exhumers) and/or command ship - like bonus to mining link modules
mining itself - as most ppl who will fly this will have immense mining skills it would be unfair to not allow them to mine itself. with its gang links active it should mien about as much as a hulk without gang links (so hulks add mroe to total mien than 2nd or 3rd cap).
other idea would be to give the capital ship tiered crystalls which would be extremely efficient for veldspar and scordite but get worse and worse the more expensive the ore gets. lets kill those damn veld-moons in 0.0!
to solve the problem with strip miners and gang links it would be sensible to make capital mining turrets which need turret slots so you can give the ship 8 high slots but still cap its mining ability to say 3 lasers.
I fully endorse this to the best of my ability and then some. Brilliant.
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Elohe
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.28 10:27:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Ultimate Poison Edited by: Ultimate Poison on 12/01/2007 07:30:33 Edited by: Ultimate Poison on 12/01/2007 07:27:22 I'd hate to see a capital ship with refinery capability and/or jumpdrives. It would have very little use, since most 0.0 environments have a refinery station in the near neighbourhood.
If you were want to implement such a refining ship, some alliances are going to have a big hit in income, since many of them use the refinery yield to pay for the fuel of the POS that creates souvereignity. So CCP, make it possible for alliances to tax such ships.
Another thing is if you used jumpdrives, I think is the risk of being catched is too little vs the rewards. It would enable small groups of people to act like locusts. Jump in, mine the s.hit out of a belt, and jump back with refined ore.
I'd love to see a capital ship that has a large ore bay. Its primary function is to crunch ore into small volume and thus make it easier to haul. There have been several threads in the suggestion-forum for this.
this
dont make carebears, invulnerable providing them with jumpbrigdes, it would kill the risk vs reward equation
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johnrogers
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Posted - 2007.07.28 23:34:00 -
[257]
I think it should be a mix between a freighter and a command ship. It shouldn't be able to mine itself, but give an insane amount of bonuses to ganged miners in system. I think it should also have HAC like natural resists so ppl will take it to 0.0. It should have a large cargo bay like 600,000m3 that can increase per skill lvl up to 1,000,000m3. I don't think you should be able to mine directly into it but it should be able to pick up jet cans. This way freighter pilots have a bigger goal as well as mining directors. Also a mini jump-drive that can jump other ships would be nice and be able to use half the amount of fighters as carriers for protection but fighters would not be assignable. It should not be allowed in 0.5 systems and above for these reasons. Also a Triage mode not quite as good as a carrier would be nice. That way it could be used as a decent support ship for a mining corp with out much fire power. A mining corp with a few of these can hold its own to small groups of pirates but not large alliance fleets.
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Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.29 09:49:00 -
[258]
Here's one thing I think it should do.....
Using something underused like Heavy Water - it should act like a mobile POS.
It puts out a shield within which you can mine, but not fight (no targets except roids within the shield) and it has a reasonably sized Corp Hanger that freighters can access.
This means it isn't an all powerful jump freighter and doesn't replace refineries. But would defend, within reason, a well organised operation - from at least small gangs - but be quite destroyable.
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Kayl Breinhar
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.29 12:00:00 -
[259]
From SiSi with love:
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Elohe
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.29 14:05:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Elohe on 29/07/2007 14:08:28 Edited by: Elohe on 29/07/2007 14:06:31
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar From SiSi with love:
thats some crazy requirements...
Devs have to really think about balance isues with captal ore ships, becouse old miners are probably near that requisites, and if these monsters mine way, too much the prices would crash and make mining very unprofitable for the people that simply doesnt have the skillpoints devoted to this, but desires to do so... so no more mining for newbies
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Ford Hakata
Hakata Group
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Posted - 2007.07.29 15:37:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar From SiSi with love:
http://cr0y.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/a6/a6d16ff01dec2965ff3f2ed29073c0c9f65ef260.jpg
The skill you linked to isn't available on Singularity. --
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Johanen
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.29 20:24:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Johanen on 29/07/2007 20:27:38
Originally by: Ford Hakata
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar From SiSi with love:
http://cr0y.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/a6/a6d16ff01dec2965ff3f2ed29073c0c9f65ef260.jpg
The skill you linked to isn't available on Singularity.
It requires some of the strange DB item-link trickery to get it to show up, since it's not a published skill. There are screenshots of the actual ship floating around, but the fitting and req skills tabs aren't shown, and I don't know the item number to check it myself.
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Ockedof Ukack
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.30 04:24:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Ockedof Ukack on 30/07/2007 04:25:40 ok heres something yall haven't taken into account, The average size of a single unrefined belt in .4 is alost 1.5million m3 of cargo even with a capital refining array and independant hauler how far thru a belt in 0.0 are you gonna get ? better yet are you gonna jump back to your home system everytime its full ?
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swoj
The New Order. United Connection's
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Posted - 2007.07.30 12:40:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Broken Star
P.S. If normal Capital ships require Battleship 5, I should Imagen a capital ORE ship will require Exhumer 5, not as you guys suggest, mining barge.
I don't think that would be the case. No Capital ships require a T2 skill to be trained as a pre-req, I don't see why the Ore Capital would be any different.
As previously suggested, the refining skills would provide a suitable level of requirement for the ship.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.30 13:38:00 -
[265]
Why Exhumers 5?
That's a T2 ship skill, no other capital (Or any other T1 ship) requires you to train a T2-level skill to 5 just to pilot it. It makes the requirements for this thing insane.
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agrajag119
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Posted - 2007.07.30 14:38:00 -
[266]
When you consider the target audience exhumers is really the best option for the level V requirement. If they picked tranports V, I would cry... no one has that one trained up.
I think requiring advanced spaceship V is a bit nutty though. Other than that it looks fine.
My only worry is the lack of jump drive skills, the screeny makes it look like its Non-jump capable... which would suck.
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The Anointed
Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:13:00 -
[267]
Make it like a command ship for mining.
Also, have it emit a sheild similar to that of pos, although much weaker, and about 25-30k range, also needing fuel to power it.
It should be able to jump around much like a dread/carrier, have a large capacity and provide almost like a mobile safe haven for anyone within its shields, meaning that they can not be targeted but also can not target outside of the shield either.
Some sort of compressor would be good as well, with perhaps a ship maintenance bay that can hold, say 3 exhumers or something.
There are several ways in which i could see that ship being used for somethign other than its intended purpose though, so the sheild would have to be like a siege mode so there would be drawbacks.
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Goneanti Swift
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:31:00 -
[268]
Originally by: agrajag119 When you consider the target audience exhumers is really the best option for the level V requirement. If they picked tranports V, I would cry... no one has that one trained up.
I think requiring advanced spaceship V is a bit nutty though. Other than that it looks fine.
My only worry is the lack of jump drive skills, the screeny makes it look like its Non-jump capable... which would suck.
Advanced spaceship command 5 is a req for the base capital ship skill, so all capships have that.
As far as jump drive skills, those would fall under the skill requirements for the ship, not for the skill. As an example, look at the Amarr Dreadnought skill, then the skill requirements for the Revelation.
The Cap Ship 4 requirement puts it between Carrier skills (CS3) and Titan skills (CS5). Just mentioned cause I find it interesting.
As far as requiring a T2 skill, I'm fine with it. Some thoughts: *It's a piloting skill, requiring refining skills for it doesn't make much sense to me. *The racial industrial and transport ship skills don't make sense, because they'd have to deal with the 4 racial skill tracks in the requirements. There's no other instance in the game where you can have "amarr ship 5 OR caldari ship 5" as a requirement. *Exhumer skill is racial independent, and it's from the same corporation the cap ship is coming from. It's only a rank 5 skill where racial BS skills the other cap ships need are rank 8, so you're getting off easy there. The skill costs more than the BS skills, but 22M difference when we're talking about billion isk capships is a ******** concern. The exhumer skill requires a bit more base skills to train up, but industry and astrogeology aren't exactly backbreakers. And just cause people are gonna ***** without looking I'll nip it in the bud now: the exhumer skill doesn't require mining barge skill, so if you start breaking out lists of how long it takes to train up into a hulk to support your tears, I'm going to point and laugh.
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Standard Deviation
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:05:00 -
[269]
make it able to plow through Veld and scord. Make it crap for mining high ends.
Give it bonus for all the mining stuff and defense of the mining gang.
Make it so that for all this to happen it happens to enter a 30 minute mining siege mode. But make the bonuses awesome and worth it.
Do not make them jump capable. I do not like the idea of making it jump capable, but it probably will be.
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Moon Dogg
Gallente Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:38:00 -
[270]
I have a corp-mate that is telling me in-game that the latest database dump has lots of info on this ship. I will try to find some info to post. Think mining fighters, a ship to provide compression of minerals....mmmmmmmm
*********************************** "My God, it's full of roids..." |
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