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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:50:00 -
[1]
I am wondering what would be the best way to take out a highly specialized raven pilot with a myrmidon? What should i use? Whats a good way to neutralized a raven in a fight?
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Arusa Riveru
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Arusa Riveru on 11/01/2007 05:48:27 Edited by: Arusa Riveru on 11/01/2007 05:48:18 Sensor dampeners by the boatload, drone link augmentor, and heavy drones. Might be a good idea to fit like an AB/MWD if you can too, just to stay out of range. It'll take forever to lock onto those drones for the Raven, and he won't be able to target/shoot at you with the dampeners on him.
If he has FoF missiles, you're screwed. :)
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:01:00 -
[3]
He plans on warping to 0km on me and doing things dirty style. So i am thinking of splashing some nos on him along with some ECM drones or some webbers. Any ideas on a situation when he warps in close to me?
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Da'Mura
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:04:00 -
[4]
A Myrmidon cannot tank a Raven for crap... believe me, I've seen this attempted with my own eyes.
If he plans on warping to you, change it up. Dampen him enough so you can get within 20km without him targeting you, scramble him, AB/MWD on, and start attacking him with heavies and blasters/rails.
Of course if you can fit all that, cap will be a problem most likely.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Shandling on 11/01/2007 06:05:25
Originally by: Serpreme He plans on warping to 0km on me and doing things dirty style. So i am thinking of splashing some nos on him along with some ECM drones or some webbers. Any ideas on a situation when he warps in close to me?
He'll probably dual NOS you so you might want a cap injector...
Full rack of NOS in your highs, cap injector, solid tank, and drones. (stay close... so you can scoop and pop them back out quick if he starts hitting them)
He'll probably have his own drones if he's specialized, so take out his drones first if you can... I'm not sure if your drones can break his tank though, but if you don't have a rack of NOS, he'll probably destroy your cap...
Tough fight.
Edit: W/ you in a BC, cruise will hit you for full probably.. torps will hit for full probably, if he's got painters(s). It'll probably come down to either you full out tanking/nossing and him not being able to break your tank and vice versa, or you trying to outgank him, which won't happen...
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:10:21 Ya it will be a tough fight,one i'll probally lose,but its for fun. I'm going for a full rack of NOS. Debating if i should be use 5 heavies and targ his drones so they drop easy and focuse on that. Dual rep my armor and some injectors sound good. get some hardners and hope i get lucky with the choice of them and i hope to give him some kind of run for his money. I have a week to plan it out. Edit: Right now i would be happy with just tanking him. So i can fit 6 med nos's and i'm working on the second repairer. Any idea on what he would likely use as missles(Whats the common ones used against sansha as thats probally what he will use on me)
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Da'Mura
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:15:00 -
[7]
Specialized ravens carry everything in their holds.
Generally hit me with Widowmakers though.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Serpreme Any idea on what he would likely use as missles(Whats the common ones used against sansha as thats probally what he will use on me)
If he's a good Raven pilot, he'll have one of each type in his hold, including FOFs in case you dampen/jam him.
He'll have one of each type in 4 of his launchers, and check his log to see which one does the best damage. So you really need to omni-tank him.
Little trick though... have a specific hardener for what you want to tank, and leave it off. Keep the rest higher using EANMs and what not, then he'll switch to the one he's hitting for more with.. wait a minute, then activate the hardener. He might not notice. :)
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:21:00 Hmm What about this. Since i am going the 6 nos route, why not triple repairs? How do i stop him from breaking my lock on him? Also what would be the best kinds of drones to deploy? SHould i do some elecontronic warfare,like a bunch of webber drones and keep him and a crawl? whats a EANM? hehe i'm new to the pvp scene,like 3 days new :) been a indy. So i'm looking to get pounded hard to get a better learning. Best way i find to learn faster.
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awwsd
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:25:00 -
[10]
wow you guys are gods at pvp fittings
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Serpreme Since i am going the 6 nos route, why not triple repairs?
He is almost certainly going to have you double heavy NOS'd. You might have a better bet going with rails and orbit out of heavy NOS range... if it's a duel, he won't be warping out, so don't worry about scrambling.
Originally by: Serpreme How do i stop him from breaking my lock on him? Also what would be the best kinds of drones to deploy? SHould i do some elecontronic warfare,like a bunch of webber drones and keep him and a crawl?
Honestly, if he's a good Raven pilot, he'll have FOF's so ECM (jammers, breaks lock) won't really help a lot... You should be able to EASILY outrun him w/ unless he's running mwd/injector for some weird reason.
Originally by: Serpreme whats a EANM? hehe i'm new to the pvp scene,like 3 days new :) been a indy.
Look up some threads on Armor Tanking, and that'll explain it all. Research it. :)
Originally by: Serpreme So i'm looking to get pounded hard to get a better learning. Best way i find to learn faster.
Yep! Although, that's somewhat of a hopeless fight, unless he sucks hard. Ask him to duel you in a Drake instead, perhaps.
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:32:03 Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:30:46 Na i suck at pvp so dont worry. Also thanks for the constructive post lol
Will 3 nos's be enough to sustain 3 repairs? I regen 3325 cap in 203 seconds. I was thinking of some neutralizers. Or should i just heavily go in one direction like making it so he cant lock me? How can i resist the FOF then?
He says he uses 1 heavy NOS.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Shandling on 11/01/2007 06:32:59
Originally by: Serpreme Will 3 nos's be enough to sustain 3 repairs? I regen 3325 cap in 203 seconds. I was thinking of some neutralizers.
Edit: Ah, 1x NOS. Perhaps then... you'd have to test it. Depends on your cap skills..
Or should i just heavily go in one direction like making it so he cant lock me?
FOF's = Friend or Foe. They'll go after the nearest enemy, so your drones will probably get eaten up first.. if you are very good with your drones, and can pull them back before they go pop and toss a new one out, cycling them (they regen shields every time you scoop and release) you might have luck with dampening him. But FOF's will hit you without him needing a lock...
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:39:00 -
[14]
Hmmm Since it'll be a gang situation FOF shouldnt hit me right?
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Serpreme Hmmm Since it'll be a gang situation FOF shouldnt hit me right?
Not sure actually... but I'm pretty sure they'll go after anything that's aggressing you. Would need a missile ***** to confirm this.
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:43:00 -
[16]
What if i say load up on 25 light dampening drones, or 25 ECM drones. How do you think that would fair against someone with a near perfect skill wise raven?
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Serpreme What if i say load up on 25 light dampening drones, or 25 ECM drones. How do you think that would fair against someone with a near perfect skill wise raven?
Hehe, not very well.
IMO, your best bet to 'learn' how to PvP would be to fit for general PvP. Otherwise, you're only learning how to counter-fit, and that's useless 95% of the time for fights... since you usually won't know your enemy's fit.
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Darpz
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:02:00 -
[18]
damping Nosing NanoMyrm wouldn't die to a raven. but that raven will kill off your drones before you can kill the raven. tbh if the raven is setup to pvp its a hard fight. if the raven is stupid or npcing its an easy kill.
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Miss KillSome
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:14:00 -
[19]
lol, dude..this is like asking if a frig can win against BC..
NO, u cannot win, if he wont be AFK..
U cannot tank him, he has to much different types of weapons to drive u crazy.
He'll have heavy nos or two, coz he knows that u'll run dual rep, that makes u cap dependent. Range on heavy NOS is 25km, so u wont be able to use your NOSes against him if u dont want to be nossed. Damping him might save u until he loads FoFs, but then u are in the same ****, and i dont think u can dampen him below 12km with him having a SB II, for u to use medium NOSes.
If he gonna warp to 0km, expect maybe a webifier drone to keep u in range, he will NOS u in the second he locks u, so say goodbye to 300cap for sure, then your only solution is to mwd away while having him webed, and shoting his weber drones. MWD will darin u another 500cap. He will meanwhile tear u a new as*hole with cruises, possibly with t2 cruises if he is skilled and smart.
Lets go with another scenario: he is dumb, he let u slip away to lets say 30km. He has 75km locking range without skills on raven, makeing around 90km with skills, and around 135km with one SB II. If u use dual damps II on him, u'll get him with first one to like 60km, with second one, coz of a stacking penalty , u'll get him down to 40, maybe 35km.. What can u do at that range? cannot nos him, he'll just play with your drones first..assuming u dont have heavy T2 drones, i would rather use medium t2 ones, coz they get to your drone bay faster if u see them going down. OK, u can cap boost u while dual repairing, but u wont be able to tank him for long.
EANM II is energized adaptive nano membrane T2, very expensive module, but awesome for passive tanking. I would rather go with active tanking for u. get one of each t2 hardners on, with 800 cap charges u can do sustain that and dual reps, depends what will u fit on your highs..
Anyway..i dont see a any good reason to challenge a BS in your BC..If u could get a command ship with u, just to boost your resistances, then u could be lucky..but any other way u dont stand a chance..insure your BC..
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:48:00 -
[20]
Don't be so sure. I recently lost to a myrmidon when I was in my ratting raven. And I mean I lost big time. I had something like 6 cruise II, 2x heavy nos, XL II, EM and Thermal hardeners, cap injector and I can't remember what I had in lows, probably at least 1 maybe 2 BCS's.
The myrm had 4 nosses and a cap injector and I couldn't scratch it I tell you. Not a dent. It was a friend so I didn't try to kill his drones though, but I'm just saying - if you don't think about your raven setup and generally get your act together with damage types and tactics in that fight you're going to be eaten by that myrmidon, believe me.
A raven vs. myrm duel is by no means a given.
- Shpank |
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 11/01/2007 08:48:34
Some general hits, if you use drons (e.g. heavy) you remember that your range of combat is moreless 50km...so drons kill everything good enough than. myrmidon doesnt have any guns bonus. Otherwise I suggest fit as follows:
Hi Slots: ------------- 6x E50 Prototype Energy Vampire
Medium Slots: -------------- 1x 10MN ab II (or named) 2x dampner II 1x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [2xCap Booster 400] 1x Faint Warp Prohibitor I (20km range is ok)
Low Slots: ------------
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (faction will be better than) 1x Armor Kinetic Hardener II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 2x Medium Armor Repairer II (good bonus 7,5% per lvl)
rigs: * repair bonus like aux nano pump x3
probably 4-5 min and raven will be down
______________________________________________ Husaria recruits based on legendary XVI century Polish winged cavalry |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Da'Mura Specialized ravens carry everything in their holds.
Generally hit me with Widowmakers though.
when a raven hits u with widowmaker heavy missles its an easy kill.
But a t2 cm raven will probally blow u out of the water in no time. he can use his med drone to kill ur drones, or just one volley at least a few of ur drones will nossing ur vessel. All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
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DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Miss KillSome lol, dude..this is like asking if a frig can win against BC..
NO, u cannot win, if he wont be AFK..
U cannot tank him, he has to much different types of weapons to drive u crazy.
He'll have heavy nos or two, coz he knows that u'll run dual rep, that makes u cap dependent. Range on heavy NOS is 25km, so u wont be able to use your NOSes against him if u dont want to be nossed. Damping him might save u until he loads FoFs, but then u are in the same ****, and i dont think u can dampen him below 12km with him having a SB II, for u to use medium NOSes.
If he gonna warp to 0km, expect maybe a webifier drone to keep u in range, he will NOS u in the second he locks u, so say goodbye to 300cap for sure, then your only solution is to mwd away while having him webed, and shoting his weber drones. MWD will darin u another 500cap. He will meanwhile tear u a new as*hole with cruises, possibly with t2 cruises if he is skilled and smart.
Lets go with another scenario: he is dumb, he let u slip away to lets say 30km. He has 75km locking range without skills on raven, makeing around 90km with skills, and around 135km with one SB II. If u use dual damps II on him, u'll get him with first one to like 60km, with second one, coz of a stacking penalty , u'll get him down to 40, maybe 35km.. What can u do at that range? cannot nos him, he'll just play with your drones first..assuming u dont have heavy T2 drones, i would rather use medium t2 ones, coz they get to your drone bay faster if u see them going down. OK, u can cap boost u while dual repairing, but u wont be able to tank him for long.
EANM II is energized adaptive nano membrane T2, very expensive module, but awesome for passive tanking. I would rather go with active tanking for u. get one of each t2 hardners on, with 800 cap charges u can do sustain that and dual reps, depends what will u fit on your highs..
Anyway..i dont see a any good reason to challenge a BS in your BC..If u could get a command ship with u, just to boost your resistances, then u could be lucky..but any other way u dont stand a chance..insure your BC..
what a load of drivel.
a few things
how exactly does 1 heavy nos drain 300 cap?
if you think the a bc can't kill a raven u are very mistaken
how many ravens fit a sensor booster unless they're ewar armour tanked ravens? really
also if u don't understand why someone would challenge a ship when the odds are against them then you are either not a pvp'er or not a very interesting one
to the op. yes it's going to be real tough if he's specialised but you never know how much of a nub he really is. i fought what i thought would be a 'specialised' raven pilot recently to find a small cap battery in his mid slot
don't think the damp setup will work tbh as u don't have the mid slots to fit 3 really and don't see much affect with 2 on a bs.
best bet for me would be to go with blasters and heavy drones and maybe 2 nos which should help you run the 2 reps and the injector will take care of the rest and just go for dps but this depends on ur drone and gunnery skills really.
DE
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:22:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
- Shpank |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Spanker Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
so not true i'm afraid mate. depends on skills and fitting. with a few bcu's and good skills it will definately break the tank tbh. mediocre skills and no bcu's and you will be able to tank it
DE
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 10:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: Spanker Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
so not true i'm afraid mate. depends on skills and fitting. with a few bcu's and good skills it will definately break the tank tbh. mediocre skills and no bcu's and you will be able to tank it
DE
Well I couldn't. Maybe I was using the wrong damage type, maybe I should have killed his drones, maybe I should have had named or T2 nos instead of regular ones, maybe maybe maybe. Do your best to come up with good setups and tactics but if you're running around in a myrm and come across a raven don't just assume you're going to loose because you're in a BC and he's in a BS.
- Shpank |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.11 10:29:00 -
[27]
Unless you can stop them firing at you, your chances are close to zero.
Stay out of range with damps and hope they're using torps. You won't tank direct fire for long if they know what they're doing.
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Antodias
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:00:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Antodias on 11/01/2007 10:59:00 Well, the Myrmidon has a huge tank potential, but it depends on pilot skills, if you're saying 'highly specalised' it certainly won't be easy.
I know it's fairly easy to tank a Scorpion (which I would have killed had I not been jammed), and I (just about) beat a T1 Megathron at point blank range yesterday.
Originally by: DarkElf to the op. yes it's going to be real tough if he's specialised but you never know how much of a nub he really is. i fought what i thought would be a 'specialised' raven pilot recently to find a small cap battery in his mid slot
don't think the damp setup will work tbh as u don't have the mid slots to fit 3 really and don't see much affect with 2 on a bs.
best bet for me would be to go with blasters and heavy drones and maybe 2 nos which should help you run the 2 reps and the injector will take care of the rest and just go for dps but this depends on ur drone and gunnery skills really.
Totally agree, I never use damps because I prefer to stay in blaster range, and 2 nos/2 rep/injector can tank most things. ------------------------------------ It's great being a Dev, isn't it? |
Justice Bringer
Minmatar United Univers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:39:00 -
[29]
Very interesting to see peoples opinions on this one. I have both of the ships in question and I have farily reasonable skills with both (BC lvl 5 & BS lvl 4) but if I were to fight against myself using both then I know that I'd bank on myself winning with my Raven.
Obviously a Mymidon puts out a lot of damage if only using heavy drones, but as soon as you loose one your damage output dimionishes greatly.
4 cruise on the Mymidon and 2 on one drone plus your full complement of med drones or 5 target painting drones to boost the drones sig rad so the missiles do more damage.
Also fitting a target painter on the raven will also be a bonus especially as the Myrmidon has no other offence.
Alternatively launch all 6 cruise missiles against a single drone togehter with the TP/med drones while running both large nos on the myrmidon.
Obviously two seperate pilots with different skills and setups and fighting tactics will behave differently, but the thing about fighting a drone/nos ship most of the time is that you know their only weapons can and should be destroyed.
Once the drones are gone (especially if the Myrmidon pilot has fielded 5 heavies) you know he has nothing left and a Raven needs no cap to launch any missiles.
So 6 x Devastator missiles + 5 x Valkyrie II against the Myrmidon? How does that look once his drones are gone???
Raven all the way for me, but this is EVE after all and there are many noobs running around in Rokhs, Hyperions, Abbadons all using frig guns so anything is possible .
Justice
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: LUKEC on 11/01/2007 11:54:29 This thread is sooo entertaining. Ishtar vs raven is usually bad enough with nub raven pilots. I don't see how you can win vs any competent raven. Don't forget fofs. They might not go for you but killing drones will cripple you enough.
Oh and there is sligth chance that you will be the one sensor dampened to 5km lock range -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.
McGreedy |
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