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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:50:00 -
[1]
I am wondering what would be the best way to take out a highly specialized raven pilot with a myrmidon? What should i use? Whats a good way to neutralized a raven in a fight?
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Arusa Riveru
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Arusa Riveru on 11/01/2007 05:48:27 Edited by: Arusa Riveru on 11/01/2007 05:48:18 Sensor dampeners by the boatload, drone link augmentor, and heavy drones. Might be a good idea to fit like an AB/MWD if you can too, just to stay out of range. It'll take forever to lock onto those drones for the Raven, and he won't be able to target/shoot at you with the dampeners on him.
If he has FoF missiles, you're screwed. :)
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:01:00 -
[3]
He plans on warping to 0km on me and doing things dirty style. So i am thinking of splashing some nos on him along with some ECM drones or some webbers. Any ideas on a situation when he warps in close to me?
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Da'Mura
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:04:00 -
[4]
A Myrmidon cannot tank a Raven for crap... believe me, I've seen this attempted with my own eyes.
If he plans on warping to you, change it up. Dampen him enough so you can get within 20km without him targeting you, scramble him, AB/MWD on, and start attacking him with heavies and blasters/rails.
Of course if you can fit all that, cap will be a problem most likely.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Shandling on 11/01/2007 06:05:25
Originally by: Serpreme He plans on warping to 0km on me and doing things dirty style. So i am thinking of splashing some nos on him along with some ECM drones or some webbers. Any ideas on a situation when he warps in close to me?
He'll probably dual NOS you so you might want a cap injector...
Full rack of NOS in your highs, cap injector, solid tank, and drones. (stay close... so you can scoop and pop them back out quick if he starts hitting them)
He'll probably have his own drones if he's specialized, so take out his drones first if you can... I'm not sure if your drones can break his tank though, but if you don't have a rack of NOS, he'll probably destroy your cap...
Tough fight.
Edit: W/ you in a BC, cruise will hit you for full probably.. torps will hit for full probably, if he's got painters(s). It'll probably come down to either you full out tanking/nossing and him not being able to break your tank and vice versa, or you trying to outgank him, which won't happen...
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:10:21 Ya it will be a tough fight,one i'll probally lose,but its for fun. I'm going for a full rack of NOS. Debating if i should be use 5 heavies and targ his drones so they drop easy and focuse on that. Dual rep my armor and some injectors sound good. get some hardners and hope i get lucky with the choice of them and i hope to give him some kind of run for his money. I have a week to plan it out. Edit: Right now i would be happy with just tanking him. So i can fit 6 med nos's and i'm working on the second repairer. Any idea on what he would likely use as missles(Whats the common ones used against sansha as thats probally what he will use on me)
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Da'Mura
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:15:00 -
[7]
Specialized ravens carry everything in their holds.
Generally hit me with Widowmakers though.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Serpreme Any idea on what he would likely use as missles(Whats the common ones used against sansha as thats probally what he will use on me)
If he's a good Raven pilot, he'll have one of each type in his hold, including FOFs in case you dampen/jam him.
He'll have one of each type in 4 of his launchers, and check his log to see which one does the best damage. So you really need to omni-tank him.
Little trick though... have a specific hardener for what you want to tank, and leave it off. Keep the rest higher using EANMs and what not, then he'll switch to the one he's hitting for more with.. wait a minute, then activate the hardener. He might not notice. :)
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:21:00 Hmm What about this. Since i am going the 6 nos route, why not triple repairs? How do i stop him from breaking my lock on him? Also what would be the best kinds of drones to deploy? SHould i do some elecontronic warfare,like a bunch of webber drones and keep him and a crawl? whats a EANM? hehe i'm new to the pvp scene,like 3 days new :) been a indy. So i'm looking to get pounded hard to get a better learning. Best way i find to learn faster.
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awwsd
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:25:00 -
[10]
wow you guys are gods at pvp fittings
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Serpreme Since i am going the 6 nos route, why not triple repairs?
He is almost certainly going to have you double heavy NOS'd. You might have a better bet going with rails and orbit out of heavy NOS range... if it's a duel, he won't be warping out, so don't worry about scrambling.
Originally by: Serpreme How do i stop him from breaking my lock on him? Also what would be the best kinds of drones to deploy? SHould i do some elecontronic warfare,like a bunch of webber drones and keep him and a crawl?
Honestly, if he's a good Raven pilot, he'll have FOF's so ECM (jammers, breaks lock) won't really help a lot... You should be able to EASILY outrun him w/ unless he's running mwd/injector for some weird reason.
Originally by: Serpreme whats a EANM? hehe i'm new to the pvp scene,like 3 days new :) been a indy.
Look up some threads on Armor Tanking, and that'll explain it all. Research it. :)
Originally by: Serpreme So i'm looking to get pounded hard to get a better learning. Best way i find to learn faster.
Yep! Although, that's somewhat of a hopeless fight, unless he sucks hard. Ask him to duel you in a Drake instead, perhaps.
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:32:03 Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:30:46 Na i suck at pvp so dont worry. Also thanks for the constructive post lol
Will 3 nos's be enough to sustain 3 repairs? I regen 3325 cap in 203 seconds. I was thinking of some neutralizers. Or should i just heavily go in one direction like making it so he cant lock me? How can i resist the FOF then?
He says he uses 1 heavy NOS.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Shandling on 11/01/2007 06:32:59
Originally by: Serpreme Will 3 nos's be enough to sustain 3 repairs? I regen 3325 cap in 203 seconds. I was thinking of some neutralizers.
Edit: Ah, 1x NOS. Perhaps then... you'd have to test it. Depends on your cap skills..
Or should i just heavily go in one direction like making it so he cant lock me?
FOF's = Friend or Foe. They'll go after the nearest enemy, so your drones will probably get eaten up first.. if you are very good with your drones, and can pull them back before they go pop and toss a new one out, cycling them (they regen shields every time you scoop and release) you might have luck with dampening him. But FOF's will hit you without him needing a lock...
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:39:00 -
[14]
Hmmm Since it'll be a gang situation FOF shouldnt hit me right?
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Serpreme Hmmm Since it'll be a gang situation FOF shouldnt hit me right?
Not sure actually... but I'm pretty sure they'll go after anything that's aggressing you. Would need a missile ***** to confirm this.
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:43:00 -
[16]
What if i say load up on 25 light dampening drones, or 25 ECM drones. How do you think that would fair against someone with a near perfect skill wise raven?
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Serpreme What if i say load up on 25 light dampening drones, or 25 ECM drones. How do you think that would fair against someone with a near perfect skill wise raven?
Hehe, not very well.
IMO, your best bet to 'learn' how to PvP would be to fit for general PvP. Otherwise, you're only learning how to counter-fit, and that's useless 95% of the time for fights... since you usually won't know your enemy's fit.
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Darpz
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:02:00 -
[18]
damping Nosing NanoMyrm wouldn't die to a raven. but that raven will kill off your drones before you can kill the raven. tbh if the raven is setup to pvp its a hard fight. if the raven is stupid or npcing its an easy kill.
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Miss KillSome
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:14:00 -
[19]
lol, dude..this is like asking if a frig can win against BC..
NO, u cannot win, if he wont be AFK..
U cannot tank him, he has to much different types of weapons to drive u crazy.
He'll have heavy nos or two, coz he knows that u'll run dual rep, that makes u cap dependent. Range on heavy NOS is 25km, so u wont be able to use your NOSes against him if u dont want to be nossed. Damping him might save u until he loads FoFs, but then u are in the same ****, and i dont think u can dampen him below 12km with him having a SB II, for u to use medium NOSes.
If he gonna warp to 0km, expect maybe a webifier drone to keep u in range, he will NOS u in the second he locks u, so say goodbye to 300cap for sure, then your only solution is to mwd away while having him webed, and shoting his weber drones. MWD will darin u another 500cap. He will meanwhile tear u a new as*hole with cruises, possibly with t2 cruises if he is skilled and smart.
Lets go with another scenario: he is dumb, he let u slip away to lets say 30km. He has 75km locking range without skills on raven, makeing around 90km with skills, and around 135km with one SB II. If u use dual damps II on him, u'll get him with first one to like 60km, with second one, coz of a stacking penalty , u'll get him down to 40, maybe 35km.. What can u do at that range? cannot nos him, he'll just play with your drones first..assuming u dont have heavy T2 drones, i would rather use medium t2 ones, coz they get to your drone bay faster if u see them going down. OK, u can cap boost u while dual repairing, but u wont be able to tank him for long.
EANM II is energized adaptive nano membrane T2, very expensive module, but awesome for passive tanking. I would rather go with active tanking for u. get one of each t2 hardners on, with 800 cap charges u can do sustain that and dual reps, depends what will u fit on your highs..
Anyway..i dont see a any good reason to challenge a BS in your BC..If u could get a command ship with u, just to boost your resistances, then u could be lucky..but any other way u dont stand a chance..insure your BC..
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:48:00 -
[20]
Don't be so sure. I recently lost to a myrmidon when I was in my ratting raven. And I mean I lost big time. I had something like 6 cruise II, 2x heavy nos, XL II, EM and Thermal hardeners, cap injector and I can't remember what I had in lows, probably at least 1 maybe 2 BCS's.
The myrm had 4 nosses and a cap injector and I couldn't scratch it I tell you. Not a dent. It was a friend so I didn't try to kill his drones though, but I'm just saying - if you don't think about your raven setup and generally get your act together with damage types and tactics in that fight you're going to be eaten by that myrmidon, believe me.
A raven vs. myrm duel is by no means a given.
- Shpank |
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 11/01/2007 08:48:34
Some general hits, if you use drons (e.g. heavy) you remember that your range of combat is moreless 50km...so drons kill everything good enough than. myrmidon doesnt have any guns bonus. Otherwise I suggest fit as follows:
Hi Slots: ------------- 6x E50 Prototype Energy Vampire
Medium Slots: -------------- 1x 10MN ab II (or named) 2x dampner II 1x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [2xCap Booster 400] 1x Faint Warp Prohibitor I (20km range is ok)
Low Slots: ------------
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (faction will be better than) 1x Armor Kinetic Hardener II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 2x Medium Armor Repairer II (good bonus 7,5% per lvl)
rigs: * repair bonus like aux nano pump x3
probably 4-5 min and raven will be down
______________________________________________ Husaria recruits based on legendary XVI century Polish winged cavalry |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Da'Mura Specialized ravens carry everything in their holds.
Generally hit me with Widowmakers though.
when a raven hits u with widowmaker heavy missles its an easy kill.
But a t2 cm raven will probally blow u out of the water in no time. he can use his med drone to kill ur drones, or just one volley at least a few of ur drones will nossing ur vessel. All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
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DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Miss KillSome lol, dude..this is like asking if a frig can win against BC..
NO, u cannot win, if he wont be AFK..
U cannot tank him, he has to much different types of weapons to drive u crazy.
He'll have heavy nos or two, coz he knows that u'll run dual rep, that makes u cap dependent. Range on heavy NOS is 25km, so u wont be able to use your NOSes against him if u dont want to be nossed. Damping him might save u until he loads FoFs, but then u are in the same ****, and i dont think u can dampen him below 12km with him having a SB II, for u to use medium NOSes.
If he gonna warp to 0km, expect maybe a webifier drone to keep u in range, he will NOS u in the second he locks u, so say goodbye to 300cap for sure, then your only solution is to mwd away while having him webed, and shoting his weber drones. MWD will darin u another 500cap. He will meanwhile tear u a new as*hole with cruises, possibly with t2 cruises if he is skilled and smart.
Lets go with another scenario: he is dumb, he let u slip away to lets say 30km. He has 75km locking range without skills on raven, makeing around 90km with skills, and around 135km with one SB II. If u use dual damps II on him, u'll get him with first one to like 60km, with second one, coz of a stacking penalty , u'll get him down to 40, maybe 35km.. What can u do at that range? cannot nos him, he'll just play with your drones first..assuming u dont have heavy T2 drones, i would rather use medium t2 ones, coz they get to your drone bay faster if u see them going down. OK, u can cap boost u while dual repairing, but u wont be able to tank him for long.
EANM II is energized adaptive nano membrane T2, very expensive module, but awesome for passive tanking. I would rather go with active tanking for u. get one of each t2 hardners on, with 800 cap charges u can do sustain that and dual reps, depends what will u fit on your highs..
Anyway..i dont see a any good reason to challenge a BS in your BC..If u could get a command ship with u, just to boost your resistances, then u could be lucky..but any other way u dont stand a chance..insure your BC..
what a load of drivel.
a few things
how exactly does 1 heavy nos drain 300 cap?
if you think the a bc can't kill a raven u are very mistaken
how many ravens fit a sensor booster unless they're ewar armour tanked ravens? really
also if u don't understand why someone would challenge a ship when the odds are against them then you are either not a pvp'er or not a very interesting one
to the op. yes it's going to be real tough if he's specialised but you never know how much of a nub he really is. i fought what i thought would be a 'specialised' raven pilot recently to find a small cap battery in his mid slot
don't think the damp setup will work tbh as u don't have the mid slots to fit 3 really and don't see much affect with 2 on a bs.
best bet for me would be to go with blasters and heavy drones and maybe 2 nos which should help you run the 2 reps and the injector will take care of the rest and just go for dps but this depends on ur drone and gunnery skills really.
DE
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:22:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
- Shpank |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Spanker Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
so not true i'm afraid mate. depends on skills and fitting. with a few bcu's and good skills it will definately break the tank tbh. mediocre skills and no bcu's and you will be able to tank it
DE
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Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.11 10:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: Spanker Edited by: Spanker on 11/01/2007 09:20:03
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 All hacs are not match for a pvp fitted, t2 cm raven, why should a bc be.
Let me assure you, cruise missiles do not do enough damage to kill a dual rep myrmidon, at least not as long as he has cap left, which he always will have if he's worth his salt. Only way a myrm should loose to a raven imo is if the raven uses rage torps and at least 2 painters. You won't be able to actually kill the raven after he gets rid of your drones but as long as he has CM's and no friends you're not dying yourself either.
so not true i'm afraid mate. depends on skills and fitting. with a few bcu's and good skills it will definately break the tank tbh. mediocre skills and no bcu's and you will be able to tank it
DE
Well I couldn't. Maybe I was using the wrong damage type, maybe I should have killed his drones, maybe I should have had named or T2 nos instead of regular ones, maybe maybe maybe. Do your best to come up with good setups and tactics but if you're running around in a myrm and come across a raven don't just assume you're going to loose because you're in a BC and he's in a BS.
- Shpank |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.11 10:29:00 -
[27]
Unless you can stop them firing at you, your chances are close to zero.
Stay out of range with damps and hope they're using torps. You won't tank direct fire for long if they know what they're doing.
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Antodias
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:00:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Antodias on 11/01/2007 10:59:00 Well, the Myrmidon has a huge tank potential, but it depends on pilot skills, if you're saying 'highly specalised' it certainly won't be easy.
I know it's fairly easy to tank a Scorpion (which I would have killed had I not been jammed), and I (just about) beat a T1 Megathron at point blank range yesterday.
Originally by: DarkElf to the op. yes it's going to be real tough if he's specialised but you never know how much of a nub he really is. i fought what i thought would be a 'specialised' raven pilot recently to find a small cap battery in his mid slot
don't think the damp setup will work tbh as u don't have the mid slots to fit 3 really and don't see much affect with 2 on a bs.
best bet for me would be to go with blasters and heavy drones and maybe 2 nos which should help you run the 2 reps and the injector will take care of the rest and just go for dps but this depends on ur drone and gunnery skills really.
Totally agree, I never use damps because I prefer to stay in blaster range, and 2 nos/2 rep/injector can tank most things. ------------------------------------ It's great being a Dev, isn't it? |
Justice Bringer
Minmatar United Univers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:39:00 -
[29]
Very interesting to see peoples opinions on this one. I have both of the ships in question and I have farily reasonable skills with both (BC lvl 5 & BS lvl 4) but if I were to fight against myself using both then I know that I'd bank on myself winning with my Raven.
Obviously a Mymidon puts out a lot of damage if only using heavy drones, but as soon as you loose one your damage output dimionishes greatly.
4 cruise on the Mymidon and 2 on one drone plus your full complement of med drones or 5 target painting drones to boost the drones sig rad so the missiles do more damage.
Also fitting a target painter on the raven will also be a bonus especially as the Myrmidon has no other offence.
Alternatively launch all 6 cruise missiles against a single drone togehter with the TP/med drones while running both large nos on the myrmidon.
Obviously two seperate pilots with different skills and setups and fighting tactics will behave differently, but the thing about fighting a drone/nos ship most of the time is that you know their only weapons can and should be destroyed.
Once the drones are gone (especially if the Myrmidon pilot has fielded 5 heavies) you know he has nothing left and a Raven needs no cap to launch any missiles.
So 6 x Devastator missiles + 5 x Valkyrie II against the Myrmidon? How does that look once his drones are gone???
Raven all the way for me, but this is EVE after all and there are many noobs running around in Rokhs, Hyperions, Abbadons all using frig guns so anything is possible .
Justice
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: LUKEC on 11/01/2007 11:54:29 This thread is sooo entertaining. Ishtar vs raven is usually bad enough with nub raven pilots. I don't see how you can win vs any competent raven. Don't forget fofs. They might not go for you but killing drones will cripple you enough.
Oh and there is sligth chance that you will be the one sensor dampened to 5km lock range -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.
McGreedy |
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R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:08:00 -
[31]
Speed & RSD = dead Raven
Only if the Myrmidon pilot's clever though. With "clever" I mean it WON'T allow the Raven to get a lock a single time. Forget tanking a Raven, that won't work for sure. Drone management is key!!!
Of course is the Raven's a noob ratter, all those tips are kinda pointless...you could probably kill it in a Thorax _______________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:26:00 -
[32]
What do you mean not let it lock you? :) he will also be in his pvp setup.
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.11 13:06:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Pottsey on 11/01/2007 13:06:27 "A Myrmidon cannot tank a Raven for crap... believe me, I've seen this attempted with my own eyes." The Myrmidon makes a killer passive tank. 200 hp/s or a lot more might be possible more then enough so that 1 Raven even with Nos cannot kill you. Thats with a warp scrabble fitted. Myrmidon makes a stronger shield tank then amour. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 13:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Spanker
if you're running around in a myrm and come across a raven don't just assume you're going to loose because you're in a BC and he's in a BS.
totally agree. you wouldn't believe the odds i've overcome in the past because of ppl's hilarious setups and lack of experience/skills. especially the myrmidon which is the best tier2 bc for solo pvp imo you can really pwn.
and if u only ever engage odds in ur favour u'll never get the kinda rush that some of us do and never have great stories to tell.
DE
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Angus Torg
LoneWolf Mining
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Posted - 2007.01.11 14:10:00 -
[35]
Well, I have to agree with Pottsey. Given the situation of a "friendly" Myrmidon vs. Raven fight, I would come in a passive shield tanked Myrmidon. With good skills and some nice rigs fitted, you should be able to tank all the damage the Raven throws at you. But tanking is only the half way. As long as he has cap to sustain his tank, you will have problems hitting him. So, take something liek 5 Medium Nosferatus to eliminate his Nos and drain his whole battery. As soon as he's dry, start firing. I assume that even one single gun would suffice in the end.
But as I said before, this works only with "friendly" fights. In normal situations, your enemy would just warp away... __________________________________________________ Please update the Item Database now(tm). |
R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Serpreme What do you mean not let it lock you? :) he will also be in his pvp setup.
He can be in his PVP setup if he wants. But if I move out to 18km the second he gets a lock, he'll lose that lock again...at which point it takes him another 1min+ to get another lock Yes he can fit a sensor booster, but how many Raven pilots do that??? And if he has damps himself (hi BE), well, then either you can MWD away...or pray that you get a lock before him.
Now, ofc he can try going for your drones, which is why you need some good piloting skills so you can do "flybys" to your drones and scoop 'em if necessary.
If all goes wrong, just run if it gets too hot. You'll be going over 2.5km/s witout implants and faction stuff _______________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: R'adeh
Originally by: Serpreme What do you mean not let it lock you? :) he will also be in his pvp setup.
He can be in his PVP setup if he wants. But if I move out to 18km the second he gets a lock, he'll lose that lock again...at which point it takes him another 1min+ to get another lock Yes he can fit a sensor booster, but how many Raven pilots do that??? And if he has damps himself (hi BE), well, then either you can MWD away...or pray that you get a lock before him.
Now, ofc he can try going for your drones, which is why you need some good piloting skills so you can do "flybys" to your drones and scoop 'em if necessary.
If all goes wrong, just run if it gets too hot. You'll be going over 2.5km/s witout implants and faction stuff
2 damps puts a raven down to 18km or is that with 3?
DE
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DayVV4lkEr
Liga Freier Terraner
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:50:00 -
[38]
I don't really know why everyone is thinking that the raven will provide the cap for a NOS Myr.
NOS are only usefull weapons if your enemy needs cap or he isn't able to time cap boost with shield boost and other modules (maybe he is using a passiv setup or only passiv hardeners and a xlarge booster)
In general i wouldn't go for a pure NOS Myr. maybe 4 NOS and a cap injector or even only 3 NOS
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thanatosthered
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:00:00 -
[39]
If the raven pilot knows he is fighting a drone boat, is there not the slightest chance that he may fit large smarties instead of nos? I know I would.
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DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:21:00 -
[40]
Raven owns all, good luck to anything else
Sig nerfz0rd. Remember kids, it's 400x120 and less than 24,000 bytes (not kbytes) -Conuion Meow |
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:31:00 -
[41]
I know that FoF's do less damage than normal weapons, but damn it seems like a full sorte of 'em would make a mess of the Heavy Drones. Regardless of whether or not the Myrmidon can tank the Raven's damage output seems irrelevant if the Raven kills the drones. Even if the Raven's damped to all hell the FoF's could eat at the drones and given the speed of Heavy drones I rather doubt the Myrmidon pilot could recall them fast enough to keep the shields fully charged. Recalled drones aren't shooting, and at some point even non-concentrated fire would kill 'em.
And to me that seems like the best-case scenario when the Raven can't directly target the drones to direct-fire at 'em or attach his own drones.
I can definitely see where the Myrmidon stands a chance, at any rate. That alone speaks well of the ship. But realistically it seems like any competent Raven pilot would have the deck stacked in his favor.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Corwain
Gallente Infinite Innovations
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:06:00 -
[42]
Heh, I'm about to attempt a dual with a corpmate that is a specialized Drake pilot. I'm guessing they'll use 7x T2 heavy launchers and a med nos, an insane passive tank with maybe a sensor booster and scram (we agreed that warping was acceptable, basically we'll have to scan each other down and we need to stay at a celestial object, no SSing), damage mods and Shield power relays in low. Hope they don't read this but I don't think they do the forum bit much anymore.
Now with the Raven fitting all nos will actually help break its tank. For the Drake not so, but overwhelming DPS will help. Go in with blasters and ECM. With a target that big you're not gonna really need to worry about a web IMO, caldari ECMs are more important because you want to keep some of the DPS off you at some point, you simply can't tank that for any length of time. Also, you want to gank as fast as possible, so no messing around with Medium drones. Even if he used FoF missles when jammed his DPS will be spread around to your drones too, which you can scoop at low shield and redeploy. If you're sure he's gonna drop right on top of you, all the better. More cap charges to start at your optimal with, and you can drop the MWD for another jammer and upgrade your blasters a bit, or go dual rep (recommended). I also recommend using implants to optimize your blaster damage. The 5% medium hybrid, 5% to turret rate of fire, 5% to MWD/AB speed perhaps. You get the idea.
Here's the setup:
6x Modal Ions with Antimatter Best named Cap injector, Best named 10MN MWD, 20k scram, 2x Caldari ECMs MAR II, 2x Best Magstabs you can fit, EANMII, Energ Reactive II, Energ Magnetic II
5x OGRE Is or IIs (whichever you can use.)
You need Weapon Upgrades III to fit. (easy)
Unfortunately I'm specced in medium drones so only T1 heavies for me. Depite not having a damage bonus Quickfit (which often underestimates DPS) gives me ~450DPS on structure without my implants and with crap gunnery skills. I only have BC 3. 250 dps of that is from the unbonused blasters and. Luckily you won't have 20k shield to chew through like I will, so you might be able to take him down FAST (which is the idea). If you can fit T2 blasters and heavies you'll have significantly more DPS. Same if you can fit some Neutrons on instead of the ions. I'm counting on the inevitable extenders on drake to make tracking problems without a web negligible (plus a tracking implant) but you MIGHT want to swap an ECM for a web. Of course BSes have huge sig radius to begin with. Luckily even specced Caldari pilots don't know anything about tracking so I expect my opponent to just sit there and soak it up.
I get 58 secs to take down a non-recharging 14k worth of drake shields, so I think 1:30-2:00 is all I'll need. Not needing to tank for 30secs to 1:00 of that will make it much easier.
I just hope my opponent doesn't read this post cause it gives my whole strategy away. This is kinda a dispute settler, cause they don't PvP but think drakes can beat anything their size or lower since passive tanked they're invulnerable to nos.
Reminds me of a forum sig I read recently which kind of applies to all blasterboats: "The Thorax flies much the same way as it looks. It goes in as far as it can, shoots its load, and then, one way or another, it's over."
I tried the Brutix, but with my low gunnery skills and poor fitting skills I couldn't fit big enough guns and damage mods with a decent enough tank to last long enough to do my damage. Sad that the Myr is the better blasterboat of the Gallente BCs at least until you get really good skills. Having extra lows to fit more damage mods AND a tank helps in this endeavor tho.
Whew!
-Corwain
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Soros
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:11:00 -
[43]
Can i just say that realisticly any ship can take any ship so all of you who laugh at this guy stfu.
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Soros
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Raven owns all, good luck to anything else
says the guy who refuses to fight 1vs1 bs vs my mega or geddon but now im just smack talking so i'll make a constructive comment.
raven does not own all.
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Kruel
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:18:00 -
[45]
What if the Myrm fit 3 Caldari racial ecms? Then again the Raven could also fit Gallente ecms.
Rock paper scissors.
Depending on setup, Myrm could win, but I'd bet on the Raven.
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:18:00 -
[46]
Hmm ya i am thinking of ECM to avoid locks. Then heavies to take him down,but a webb to keep close so i can do a quick redeploy. Heavy nossing since i only have tech I blasters and its all i can use right now. dual armor reps and some nice active hardners. Get a cap injector in there and i think i am off to a better start then when i began.
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Blitz'Krieg
Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:23:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Blitz''Krieg on 11/01/2007 18:22:54 Since your never gonna out nos a raven would you not be better going 1 nos and the rest neuts, just arrange the nos cycle so you can keep your active hardners on, and use the rest of your slots for a shield extender tank. Bottom rack of shield relays and the shield size increasing rig and you "may" stand a chance if your killing him with t2 drones and your pretty skilled.
edit: the peeps that are suggesting using ecm are gonna die to the fof's and the sensor dampners, well tbh the vast majority of peeps in ravens have a sensor booster on, so personally i wouldn't bother. If you really think ecm is your best option, i would go with a duel dampning / ecm drones or visa versa and let your close range blasters take him out personally, but tbh i dont think thats gonna be the way to go
Enter the ONE million for ONE billion lottery. details in bio or Linkage |
Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:25:00 -
[48]
He has 1 nos,how can 6 nos's not out nos him?
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Blitz'Krieg
Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Serpreme He has 1 nos,how can 6 nos's not out nos him?
what i mean is your fighting a loosing battle trying to out cap a raven. your basically gimping your setup that can be tanked very effectivelly passively, against a raven setup that can only beat that passive tank with an active one. His tank is the one that relies on cap not yours and you can negate that "bonus" with neuts better than nos.
Enter the ONE million for ONE billion lottery. details in bio or Linkage |
Taerenius
Caldari Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:11:00 -
[50]
Sorry, I'm a specialized raven pilot (Caldari BS5, Cruise missile spec 4, 3.5mil sp in missiles, all shield tanking skills at 4-5, etc) and to all the people saying that theres no way a raven with cruise missiles will break your tank with 2 repairers they have no clue what they're talking about.
My cruise launchers have a rate of fire of something like 7.25 sec with 3 T2 BCU, and yes I DO fit a t2 sensor booster in mids (whoever said no sane raven pilot uses a sensor booster as a normal fitting obviously didn't know what they were talking about). Generally a good raven pilot will use a few hardeners to maximize his "overall" resists, a good shield booster (XL most likely) and with cruise launchers its easy to fit 2 heavy dim nos. A couple PDSII in low, 3 T2 BCUs, and you have a serious DPSing raven, especially if you add in 5 t2 medium drones (which I use).
This whole thread is about a COMPETANT specialized raven pilot, theres no way a COMPETANT specialized raven pilot will lose to a single myrmidon - COMPETANT being the key word. Nos + cruise launchers + drones + BCUs + sensor boosters + good resists + good shield boosting (and thats not even with rigs, add some rigs in which any good raven pilot will have and you're screwed) and theres no way you'll win.
Depending on my mood sometimes I fit 2 T2 sensor boosters on my Raven as sensor damps appear to be the new I-win ECM mod, it helps to defend against them primarily, plus locking faster is always a sure way to come out on top.
Anyway, as long as the raven pilot is specialized and has a decent amount of sp AND is competant (key word) I don't see how you can win.
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Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:28:00 -
[51]
Hehe... before the fight starts.. launch 5 drones where you'll be fighting (moon, safespot, etc) and then dock immediately. Refill your drone bay, warp back to your drones. Launch 5 drones, scoop the 5 old ones...
You've now got 5 active drones and a drone bay full of them!
ZOMGSPLOITSZ
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Ferocious FeAr
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:50:00 -
[52]
Let's just make this thread end. No BC can take a down a raven pilot who knows what 1+1 is.
You're welcome.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
Littleluk
The Ancient Order Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 20:08:00 -
[53]
Since it is a prearranged fight..see if you can set the stage in your favor. If I HAD to try this. Use sentry drones and drop them 30-40 km from where you want to fight. Fit 4 Nos, 2 autocannons web and remote sensor damps. Take out his drones first while keeping him webbed so he can't get to your sentry drones. You have a decent chance to stay out of his lock range if your higly skilled with RSD's.and even FOF's will only fly out to targeting range. Very situational approach though and if it goes wrong you will die an ugly death. Everyone needs a little luk. |
Imode
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.11 20:25:00 -
[54]
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Pseudoelectron or some other named DCU Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Mark I Modified SS Nanofiber Structure Mark I Modified SS Inertial Stabilizers Mark I Modified SS Inertial Stabilizers
Dunno, never tried it but sounds fun. :) Load barrage, orbit outside of webrange and pew pew, perhaps?
If you get nossed either way, you're gonna die. ____________________________ My sig, therefore I am. |
SN3263827
The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:58:00 -
[55]
All those saying "lose one drone and your damage is gone" don't seem to realise that 4 heavies still outdamage 5 mediums by 60%.
If you want to really be sure the raven isn't going to kill you, fit 3 damps and rails and use sentry drones. Stay outside lock range and wait. _____________________________________________
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Justice Bringer
Minmatar United Univers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:47:00 -
[56]
Originally by: SN3263827 All those saying "lose one drone and your damage is gone" don't seem to realise that 4 heavies still outdamage 5 mediums by 60%.
If you want to really be sure the raven isn't going to kill you, fit 3 damps and rails and use sentry drones. Stay outside lock range and wait.
Oh dear oh dear.....
5 Heavies outdamage 5 mediums, are you serious??
And what of the 6 cruise missiles that a Raven pilot can still launch? When the drones are gone what will the Myrmidon use? Harsh language....???
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:07:00 -
[57]
Against a very well skilled Raven pilot I recommand a faction/officer passive shield tank and assigned fighters. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Serpreme Edited by: Serpreme on 11/01/2007 06:21:00 whats a EANM? hehe i'm new to the pvp scene,like 3 days new :) been a indy.
Its the devil.....From now on pack only explosive and kinetic hardeners....please?? __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. |
Kalok
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:11:00 -
[59]
You cant win against a cm raven but have a change against a torp raven. We had a good hunting system with a Myrmidon and a Falcon ****ing about. I fitted my raven with cm2, smarty's, a heavy cap injector and loaded up Fof's. After renaming it to Hunting raven I entered the system. He and his m8 were there and I worped into the first belt. Turning to go for the next he worped right in my ass. The Falcon arrived a bit later but no biggy. His drones popped and so did his schip shortly after. I smartbombed his pod back to empire while the falcon worped out. To be honest a normal hunting raven would be no problem for a pvp Myrmidon.
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Logi3
sasha and co Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:02:00 -
[60]
Could be a long shot, but could this be the time an ECM Burst is actualy usefull? Orbit at 5-10km (depends if you want to get close enough to burst then go back out again) use burst when he has a lock on you while you run x2 Sensor dampners?
TBH i think no matter what, unless hes a retarded Raven pilot or has a gimped setup, its a too big ask to beat him.
Good luck thou :)
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:30:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 12/01/2007 14:01:59 Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 12/01/2007 13:50:06 Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 12/01/2007 13:49:31
Expirenced Myrimdon pilot with BC5 talking:
If the pilot is dumb and uses torps, a simple AB should be able to lessen the damge significantly, even with painters galore.
He'll prolly use cruises though, so using a MWD would kill damage by an appreciable amount, ab wont work though.
You'll prolly have to choose a weird damage, so no EXPlosive drones. I'd go with kinetic, just cause I like using off types. He'll prolly be using 2-3 invul. fields, so his resistances are goign to be high 60's or better so the smart thing would be thermal...assuming he doesnt use actives. That's your choice though, you know the pilot. All this assuming that he's armor tanking...cause he will if he's smart. His mids are going to be three racial jammers for SHEEZY!
He's going to dual NOS you, so you'll need at least 4x med NOS to combat that. I'd also get tech2 or the best named to be sure. I'd reccomend an injector, but you'll have no cap after all that.
Dampeners are going to be your best bet, but if you REALLY want to be interesting, i'd use ECM bursts. Throwing three of those on your ship would give you 90% chance he'll lose lock (not entirely sure on that). He'll be able to relock you, but htat'd take a LONG time for someoen without sensor boosters, and trust me, I'll be he wont have any. I think you have to be right next to him in order to use this smartbomb-like ECM.
I think his tank will slowly die, esp. his cap. You may be able to survive with your dual repper setup and MWD on. No idea if your cap will survive. Adding a fifth NOS may fix this, but I honeslty have no idea.
Keep out of webber range for sure though, unless you want to try the ECM burst idea.
The ***** setup:
Myrmidon
Medium Nosferatu I Medium Nosferatu I Medium Nosferatu I Medium Nosferatu I Medium Nosferatu I 425mm AutoCannon II [60xHail M]
ECM Burst I ECM Burst I ECM Burst I 10MN Afterburner I Medium Capacitor Booster II [2xCap Booster 400]
Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Rigs : Empty Slot \ Empty Slot \ Empty Slot \ Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II
4687 shield, 11.72/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/19/39/59 5625 armor, E/T/K/Ex=73/57/57/73 3375.0 cap, +12.88/s, -59.862/s 354.0 m/s 364.6 DPS
But if you want ot do the smart thing, you should think of either of these ways.
Either A: go full rack of whatever high slot weapon you can use T2 on and use ALL LIGHTS. he'll be using a smartbomb + booster + invul fields and sucking his cap dry. When he realizes that the lights are a bait, he may have killed his cap by then.
or B: Use sentry drones. Place them 40km away from the fight and weber that SOB. You can go all out with an officer web so you can stay out of his Smarty range, but htat's your call, esp. if you use the bursts. He'll be stuck with a wasted high slot, and that means either a NOS or cruise tube is GONE. And you'll then be able to NOS him to death, or he wont have as much damgae as he thought, and you're tank should hold up if you stick with the bursts.
Postscript: The more I think about it, if he's warping to you, using all sentry drones plus a webber will actually completely kill his smart bomb that he WILL use. The bursts should knock his lock off at least once every thirty seconds, and it'll take him 15 seconds to relock, that's alot of DPS you'll be avoiding AND NOS, since he'll have no lock. That'll leave his drones, which is easy to tank for the mrymidon.
Also, the bursts are NOT dependant on a lock, unlike all these jokers that are reccomending straight ECM. That way, if he does manage to lock and jam you, you can easily stop that jazz. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 14:08:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Imode 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Pseudoelectron or some other named DCU Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Mark I Modified SS Nanofiber Structure Mark I Modified SS Inertial Stabilizers Mark I Modified SS Inertial Stabilizers
Dunno, never tried it but sounds fun. :) Load barrage, orbit outside of webrange and pew pew, perhaps?
If you get nossed either way, you're gonna die.
if you gonna do that.. for god's sake.. get a hurricane!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Galen Silas
Gallente Mean Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.12 14:38:00 -
[63]
You get a full boat of little goblin guys and when you deploy them they gather on the wings and use there little hammers to bust them off.... I would advise NOS and Heavy drones, but tech2 mediums would be able to work anyways, especially with fairly high drone damage skills. Just fit dual reppers and resistance platings in the lows with a tech2 damage control.
All the other things at least i have fitted on mine wont really help except the target painter.
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