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Ria Nieyli
37835
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Posted - 2016.01.05 12:51:57 -
[121] - Quote
What part of what I said upset you so much that you need to insult me? |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1511
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:21:18 -
[122] - Quote
Alright... My apologies.
By your reasoning, then better to get rid of every theoretical field then, right? Mathematics, philosophy...
They rely on "abstract", right? |
Ria Nieyli
37835
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:31:14 -
[123] - Quote
Mathematics are widely utilised in applied sciences like physics and chemistry. They are used to design an engine that won't turn your ship into a fireball in the middle of the flight. They're used when you traverse the universe in a FTL speed. Possibly time too. Every tool that you use, your clothes, even your shampoo - mathematics have come into designing it at some point.
On the other hand, philosophers fail to answer simple questions such as "is the glass half-empty or is it half-full".
Let me ask you this: what is the value of art? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2282
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:59:28 -
[124] - Quote
Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1511
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Posted - 2016.01.05 21:25:24 -
[125] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Mathematics are widely utilised in applied sciences like physics and chemistry. They are used to design an engine that won't turn your ship into a fireball in the middle of the flight. They're used when you traverse the universe in a FTL speed. Possibly time too. Every tool that you use, your clothes, even your shampoo - mathematics have come into designing it at some point.
On the other hand, philosophers fail to answer simple questions such as "is the glass half-empty or is it half-full".
Let me ask you this: what is the value of art?
And yet, mathematics couldn't be more theory, and abstract. Mathematics in themselves, are NOT applied science. They are, however, used as a tool in applied sciences, as you say.
Philosophy originates from the same exact roots, and uses the same exact abstracts tools, especially the use of reason and logic.
Without those fundamental bases, your applied sciences have very little value, if none at all. Empiricism is nice and good, but to a certain point.
I think you would like to consider also that by your statement, you basically tell that every spiritual matter is in even worse state, being Amarr Faith, Cold Wind, or anything else, really.
Well, not believing in such things is an opinion I guess.. |
Ria Nieyli
37835
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Posted - 2016.01.05 21:41:19 -
[126] - Quote
A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is.
Let me ask you again: what is the value of art? |
morion
Lighting Build
34
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Posted - 2016.01.05 23:31:47 -
[127] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used.
Artist are freely creative self producing by my definition. Artist produce / create "work" themselves and do not have a "hourly wage" Value others place upon art is subjective at best
A Brutor in the subway station playing a instrument. That performer is never sure what will be offered in a open case while he plays to passers by. how long they will preform is also their choice .
Easy question: hardly...
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2291
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Posted - 2016.01.06 07:34:46 -
[128] - Quote
morion wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used. Artist are freely creative self producing by my definition. Artist produce / create "work" themselves and do not have a "hourly wage" Value others place upon art is subjective at best A Brutor in the subway station playing a instrument. The performer is never sure what will be offered in a open case while they play to passers by. how long they preform is also their choice . Your definition of art sounds like "State Produced ART" From a totalitarian government. Easy question: hardly... Here in the State we VALUE people's efforts, that they actually WORK and PRODUCE something. Thus they are REWARDED for what they do. And this reward is GUARANTEED for the time the worker has used to do the job, provided his work will fit into predefined quality standards, that he should know before starting the work (as they must be stated in the contract).
And your type of ART is priceless. And priceless not in a good term, but priceless in a meaning that its price is null. The brutor playing his tribal drum or whatever in subway, does it sign contract with anyone? Does anyone sign contract with him? No. He won't get anything. His sort of art is USELESS and utter waste of time.
Thus, I have to add correction to my answer, that it stays true only for PROFESSIONAL art, made by properly trained and educated specialist workers of art. And otherwise, it's value is insignificant. Still, this question remains easy.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30438
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Posted - 2016.01.06 07:58:46 -
[129] - Quote
I am art. I am a professional.
What am I worth ? ... ... and should it be measured per hour, or by session?
Do I get paid more if my art is more satisfying than the art of others?
RoAnnon wrote:
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
I just scanned for sites and I found a C3
The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s
O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
951
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:18:59 -
[130] - Quote
The determination of value of pieces of art is not an exact science. More like, well, an art.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1511
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Posted - 2016.01.06 10:11:02 -
[131] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is.
Let me ask you again: what is the value of art?
I am sorry, where we talking about Art? I thought it was about philosophy...
Now, mathematics change to suit sciences? How can you even state something like that? Your rocket orbit has been possible to describe exactly because there was mathematical theory behind already, that had to be applied to that specific case of applied sciences. |
Grash Uriza
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
30
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Posted - 2016.01.08 20:05:12 -
[132] - Quote
So There's some information on the which needs to be stated for the record. It comes in two different narratives that intertwine here. The first is about the twilight of Habitual Chaos [HB] in Amarr FW in 2015. The other is a story of a disgraced pilot causing trouble on his way out.
Habitual Chaos [HB] was the leading Alliance in Amarr FW from July 2015 to November 2015. I was a member of [HB] in Obsidian Cadre (OBCA). I was an (OBCA) director before taking on corp CEO. We, [HB] had support from DNG (Who are recuiting, if you didn't know), some from PIE, and a few others. But the bulk of the work was on [HB]'s shoulders. We were effective, ruthless, and the terror of the slaves. After taking Houla, slaves gave up and weaponized boredom. Once we had headshot their capital system, the standing orders of day became to not engage [HB].
By the time that November had begun, burnout had set in from the work done to Push Amarr back to Tier 2 & the cowardly slaves not fighting. This lead to the leading [HB] corp, Calibrated Chaos (L33T.), to leave FW to join Triumvirate. I would leave OBCA to join L33T. in null. This decision ended [HB]'s leadership role in the Amarr FW. The ball was handed to DNG and they reformed Primary Is Local.
quote=Mika Snow]Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. /quote] So by the time this was posted HB was not active, but DNG was still ramping up Local is Primary. The awoxing, however is another story...
Tamiroth wrote: Habitual Chaos seem to be an effective fighting force under a good fleet commander in Mira deVorsha. Mira is the FC who sounds like he knows what he doing. And in small gang stuff, you can get by on the size of nuts between your legs. (That's how FC's are born, kids) But once you get into something where it matters, Mira had no clue what he was doing nor the inclination to learn what he was doing wrong. He was the FC who is willing to throw your personal assets into the fire to be whelped. On top of that, He was a liar of the highest sort. He said he had Titans. He would tell his fleet stories to get you to bring your shiny ship cause it'll get replaced. My two Guardians on that night were not. And yes In FW, A Guardian is a shiny ship
Mira wasn't a good FC. He was a horrible FC.
The issue with Mira wasn't that he was just a bad FC. No. As the CEO of another HB corp, I had to deal with with Mira going from being just an rash but full blown cancer on the sphinkter. And when this took place, Mira was gone from [HB]. And when he did, he did with ax to grind.
Apologies to the OP. What you saw wasn't Habitual Chaos on the field. |
ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute
837
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Posted - 2016.01.08 20:34:26 -
[133] - Quote
Grash Uriza wrote:
...After taking Houla, slaves gave up and weaponized boredom. Once we had headshot their capital system, the standing orders of day became to not engage [HB]... .
There were not standing orders "not to engage" HB. There isn't anyone in any position in the Minmatar milita that could even give or enforce an order like that. The Truth is, HB at one point swelled to surpassing over 400 members in 9 corporation (don't believe me check dotlan on the galnet) and that meant that fleets were fielded that were so much larger than what the Minmatar could field. It was very simple from at least the Matari Safari perspective (Khushakor Clan's alliance back then), that all we were going to do was kite and pick of ships from much larger fleets, and that is exactly what we did.
This is what happens when you grow so big, so quickly. It is easy to blame your enemies, but there are no conspiracies here, individual alliances and FCs largely do their own thing, Tribalism is very strong in the TLF (who would have known?), but that means that we couldn't have even had standing milita wide orders even if we had wanted to. I can think of only one FC who I can quote as saying to "blueball or helldunk" HB and they are certainly not in my alliance. |
Ottom Ephesianos
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
44
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Posted - 2016.01.12 18:52:20 -
[134] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I am art. I am a professional.
What am I worth ? ... ... and should it be measured per hour, or by session?
Do I get paid more if my art is more satisfying than the art of others?
Are you changing your name and expanding your .. canvas? Can you be finished? Who decides when you are complete? As art, do you think of yourself or only allow others to do it for you? What other things are you other than art?
Art gets paid once. Stay alive.
As for bad FC's.
Is that art?
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5828
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:01:35 -
[135] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used.
I would say, Diana, that you have very exactly calculated the cost of Art, but not the value of it.
The value of Art, as everyone knows, is the sum of money that someone will pay for it on the open market.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Kador Ouryon
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
79
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Posted - 2016.01.12 20:31:30 -
[136] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is.
Let me ask you again: what is the value of art?
That's a very interesting question to be sure.
The way I see it is that Art speaks directly to an individual for whatever reason affecting a very real and quantifiable change in their behaviour, stimuli affecting brain chemistry at a more fundamental level.
I suppose I view art as a pseudo-science of the mind that rather than attempting to answer a single invariable truth instead seems to focus on the processes and efforts that have led to its construction and how that affects each viewer on an individual level. In some it inspires patriotism, in some it induces the need for social or political reform, others it can inspire to acts they would consider beyond themselves under any other circumstances, while for the artists themselves it is simply a means of release and recreation.
As both Pieter and Dianna surmise above you can calculate the costs of production and retail on the open market quite easily....but that is is only provides shallow insight into it's true value which is in the culture of the people whom it represents or whom identify with it. |
Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute
22
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Posted - 2016.01.12 21:55:35 -
[137] - Quote
The Amarr militia will never fall if people from Null sec lose space and come back to the dying Empire. |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1523
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Posted - 2016.01.12 22:17:32 -
[138] - Quote
A word I got from our friend Scherezad-haani:
She thinks that abstract sciences are the core of wisdom, and the foundation of practicality. |
Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute
24
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Posted - 2016.01.12 22:33:48 -
[139] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:A word I got from our friend Scherezad-haani:
She thinks that abstract sciences are the core of wisdom, and the foundation of practicality.
If what I said is abstract, I think you are looking too deeply into it. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1249
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Posted - 2016.01.12 22:46:22 -
[140] - Quote
The 24 Imperial Crusade's ranks are bolstered and we are retaking systems rapidly. This thread is now obsolete. You will have to wait until the next swing of fate to indulge in apocalyptic thinking and nonsensical debates that have nothing to do with the original topic. |
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
521
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:03:31 -
[141] - Quote
This thread was stillborn and still got to seven pages, Aldiboo. 24th getting another DnG booster shot is unlikely to affect it much. I do question the future mental state of the Empire loyalists and what they're going to have to deal with in fleets and even local. I mean, we've got some absolute pillocks who's arses have been sewn shut and thus only have one thing coming out of their mouths but what's coming from the Empire side in the next weeks or months is going to make our morons look like a candle next to a star.
A little tip, for Empire Loyalists: Put the local stack behind another stack and only let the memberlist peek out like a frightened little pup, for intel purposes. Gives you what you need and hides everything that has the tendency to drive otherwise sane and reasonable people towards the urge to burn the entire cluster.
Well, except Aldiboo. As I understand it he likes to partake. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1249
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:46:54 -
[142] - Quote
Indeed, I have grown accustomed to DnG psyops tactics and have chosen to take a few pages from their book. While they are mostly insane, the pilots are rather upbeat and bring a bit of laughter to the grim work we do, injecting some much needed ironic comedic relief to my flagging spirit when I see the sad state of the warzone and humanity at large. I have even taken to posting Scriptures, Imperial propaganda, and a lovely little video file my 4-year-old son made of me blowing up the Minmatar symbol in a Coercer in local channels to class up the usual inundation of gibberish they fill them with.
When you've spent seven years in the Bleak Lands you have to take solace in the little things, no? |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1213
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:50:07 -
[143] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote: When you've spent seven years in the Bleak Lands you have to take solace in the little things, no?
So, it's bleak in the Bleak Lands, eh ? Well, who'd have thought.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
522
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Posted - 2016.01.12 23:59:02 -
[144] - Quote
Well I don't particularly mind seeing Aldiboo degenerate into the addictive and corrosive loquaciousness of the howling apes that surround the Empire loyalists more thoroughly than anything our forces ever could. Nothing could serve us much better in that regard. I merely pity even my enemies the fate of having to suffer through such things.
As I've said before, I would rather lose standing tall and with principles intact rather than win a hollow and empty victory borne only through sacrifice of ideals, principle and example. This proxy war bloodsport is not worth selling what little remains of one's spirit, when I can instead set an example for my people and serve them in that manner.
Dying on one's feet is preferential to living on one's knees. Taking a knee just to gain a hollow victory? Beyond disgusting. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1249
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:32:10 -
[145] - Quote
I believe I do remember a certain Jebi Vjetar who would rile the mindless venom-spitters on the Minmatar side into epileptic spasms that would rival DnG's domination of the local channels. Unfortunately it seems your counter-psyops prototype gave up and died when Sahtogas was retaken. Such a pity. Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
But Mizzy, why so bitter? You Minmatar still hold the overwhelming advantage as far as territory goes, couldn't you at least try to add a bit of perk back to your words? I thought Minmatar were supposed to be spicy, not salty. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
855
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:35:24 -
[146] - Quote
Technically salt's a spice. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1249
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:45:11 -
[147] - Quote
I deny this. It is a mineral and a flavor, quite unlike the other natural food flavoring as it is not grown by slaves; it is mined by slaves. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
855
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:48:31 -
[148] - Quote
What do salt and spices have in common? They both season food. |
Ottom Ephesianos
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
44
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:54:12 -
[149] - Quote
::Otto's feed illuminates among the vast streams of data. The awareness that the intergalactic summit was connected to made the hairs on the Ephesian's neck stand on end. It always made him feel nervous and paranoid to broadcast naked and harnessed by an egg. As his conscious awareness intermingled with the A.I. environments parameters and limitations, Ottom Ephesianos stepped into the IGS. Materializing as pixels and shades defined his ancient amarrian visage. Wearing a spider silk duster, breach gear and a captain's customary saber a mug of digital ale in his grip sloshed over the side spilling static and aroma into the infinite.::
Success can be as melancholic as entitlement. This emotion is purposefully remorseful despite conviction in order to dissuade continued practice. It is counter evolutionary to embrace the dangers of war. The mind is not meant to accept war as a state of being otherwise the young and impressionable dream of war. Only the insane think bloodlust an admirable quality.
To the sad state of the Amarr...
The traditional values of pride through comparative intelligence seems too contrived to contemplate in the Amarr Empire. The smokescreen of their theologies has turned into a wall blinding them. They will have to break out of the Empire or be slowly choked of smarts within.
A pacifist would seek mercy selling slaves into freedom as an Amarrian.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
522
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Posted - 2016.01.13 01:09:01 -
[150] - Quote
I've already explained my bitterness before in this thread. You know first hand how it is to have your own side infested by certain undesirables. I'm just less willing than you to embrace such creatures as Sansha and Sabik. Principles are a pain in the arse, but I'm not sacrificing them over a proxy war, as I've already said.
I'll leave that to PIE and the rest of the TLF. |
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