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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Sadao
Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 10:32:00 -
[271]
People have tried to gank my Nanophoon many many times, without success so far (except RZR that got me in Jita with a bit of lag :p Got that Nanophoon back with petition).
One thing I can tell you, 720mm II fitted Muninn can easily track me, I actually had to run away from that one <.< And my orbit speed is around 4km/s at 26km. Dual Heavy Pulse II fitted Armageddon with Tracking Enhancer or two can track me easily too.
It's not that hard to hit it, it's all about stopping it from running, which Rapier and Huginn are for and which I will run right away I see one on scanner ---
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Johann Jeneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 10:40:00 -
[272]
Considering this insane speed/agilitie is good for the game i think it should be a Minmatar thing, a special abilitie, but it had to have a more extreme bonus:
the objective for these speeds would be to give the Minmatar usual PvP ships their tanks, therefore those modules would have to take great drawbacks in terms of armour and structure Bonus because those are the main things that should be affected by a mass reduction but should also reduce the sig. radius this way it would help the speedtanking thing
unless with a ship bonus you could only use 1 of those modules per ship, and the ships with bonus for those modules, like 1 more module per skill level
the ships with those modules would be all the interceptors and a few Minmatar ships used for PvP with only enough middle slots to be viable in PvP but not enough for shield tanking like (minmatar guys help me here, you can put other ships if viable):
TYPHOON STABBER VAGABOND
We would still have these kind of ships in the game but it would be a Minmatar characteristic, like the drones are gallente, or the Caldari are support/missions ships and Amarr are whiners ships (no ofense here you have a few great ships alot of lousy ones but the only thing really different are your paintjob)
And then we would have a few anti-minmatars posts for a change
Not sure if what i say is doable, just a thought, i'm just trying to make the game more "real" and at the same time not kill this kind of PvP
ps: the NOS would still need a nerf, at least when a big one is used against a smaller ship
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.16 10:46:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 10:51:10
Originally by: Aramendel Snakes and faction MWDs are only the cream on the top, but a domi or phoon can reach the magical 5 km/s area easily without them.
Wrong. To reach 5km/s without snakes, you need local hull nanos + istabs, low-end faction mwd, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs, and someone in gang with lvl5 speed skill.
Btw, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs = 150m atm. Gist X-Type MWD also 150m, Core X-Type is 50m. Why do you even put rigs in the equation?
Rigs are like implants, rigs for ship cost more than +3 implant set for clone, and it's easier to lose.
So no, a ship can't "easily" reach 5km/s without snake implants/faction mwd. And don't tell me please that mwd/ab speed rigs are uber affordable. You can buy and fit 2 other ships (if you count insurance) for just the price of 3x mwd/ab speed rigs!
Oh btw, please don't come with theoretical setups with 5 nanos in lowslots, you need RCU and BCU for damage on typhoon, and domi doesn't have as low mass/base speed as phoon.
Originally by: Aramendel My current main PvP ship is a nanocurse. The only way to kill it is either blobbing (which I can avoid since it handles like an inty) or another nanosetup which is faster than me (and has more nos power). Anything which is slower than it is killable (with the exeption of a too good passive shield tank, but you do not see many of those in PvP).
Nanocurse is more imba than any of the other nanoships. The reason is not as much, that it can fit EW, but because nos is imba, and since curse is centered around long range nos, it makes it damn efficient.
I don't have anything against nanocurse though, amarr sucks so bad right now, that they really deserve a good ship.
All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 10:46:00 -
[274]
nO way only 1 per ship. Put taht in your mind.. that is a complewte over nerf!! I use 2 nanofibers on every ship I fly as a Minmatar. Even rupture Because I NEED the extra agility to keep at fallof range of enemy!
I already pay a lot of price!! I am not fitting tank there or damage mods!
Minmatar ships speed advantage is not enough to keep us at falloff. So we Need a few nanofibers, even in a non Nano setup.
As i said. Make the bonus be a percentage of speed. For example 15%. That would keep the same for minmatar smaller ships and reduce effectiveness for typhoon and be completely crap for a dominix.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Johann Jeneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 10:59:00 -
[275]
ok ok, don't take me wrong here, you are the experienced guy with those things, but if we are talking balance you have to compare your ship with others of the same class:
you have a Rupture and with my "nerf" you would still have the 2nd fastest cruiser together with the Guardian-Vexor only slower then your race ship Stabber, your Rupture is as capable of armour tanking as any other cruiser in the game except Maller and still faster therefore you can keep range, you have the firepower and every problem you might have to keep DPS with armour tanking everyone else will have it too and...you would still have the Stabber able of doing something any other ship could do, this change now that i think about would make me train Minmatar :)
faster/agile then your rupture?
frigate hull ships (like they should be) Stabber Minmatar T2 Cruisers (like they should be) Typhoon
(not considering RIGS/IMPLANTS)
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:07:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 11:06:49 Dude, minmatar doesn't need nerf. We've been the gimped race throughout history.
Minmatar doesn't need boost either imo, it's pretty balanced atm, except a few ships. (HELLO MAELSTROM ANYONE????)
I fail how your suggestion has anything to do with the thread at hand, no one is talking about matari in particular, the problem this thread is dealing with are nanoships. People nano everything these days.
Typhoon Dominix Curse Myrmidon Cerberus
List goes on and on, minmatar has nothing to do with it.
Ironically enough, we currently switched places with amarr.
Typhoon has always been messed up, well... except people now found a use for the damn thing.
Rupture is fine as it is, stabber is fine. Don't get what your problem is... Maybe train nav skills if you can't keep range?
Rupture is still faster than thorax with mwd, last i checked.
Btw, do you even know what a guardian-vexor is? lol.
All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:11:00 -
[277]
The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup:
Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems. ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:13:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup:
Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems.
Err. No. My AC Pest will beat that, my alt's domi will eat it alive, i am quite sure a blasterthron will eat it alive too. Nvm the tier3 ships.
Just because you kill noob player with bad skills with a crap ship doesn't make it good.
All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:14:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Ryysa Btw, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs = 150m atm.
If you buy them in jita maybe. With a researched BPO (bought mine for 3 mil) a PE5 alt or corpmate and buy orders for the raw mats they cost you 30mil per at most. And as said, rig prices will fall further.
And, no, I do not consider 90 mil for a speed boost about as high as you get from highgrade snakes much. A fleet fitted mega or rokh has to pay more for it's guns. And everything else in the outfit is cheap.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:16:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Gabriel Karade The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup:
Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems.
Err. No. My AC Pest will beat that, my alt's domi will eat it alive, i am quite sure a blasterthron will eat it alive too. Nvm the tier3 ships.
Just because you kill noob player with bad skills with a crap ship doesn't make it good.
Sorry but you are mistaken, go to the team minmatar forums for the setup, it will eat most battleships up close.
Only thing against that setup is the skill diversity required... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:20:00 -
[281]
The key difference is that if things go south (for example if local has suddenly 5 people more and your target won't die anytime soon) a nanophoon can disengage. A tankphoon will get blobbed.
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Kano Sekor
Amarr S-44 Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:25:00 -
[282]
Put stacking penalties on everything, that will even things out lots on nanos and i-stabs arent suppose to get bs:es up to 3 000 m/s only interceptors are suppose to go that fast. And while youre at it put stacking penalties on nos:es man come on 5 nos:es in high?
oh by the way /me puts on flameproof suit.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:49:00 -
[283]
If nanos are to be stack nerfed. You need to stack nerf multiple armor repairers, shiled extenders, Armor plates. And all other forms of defense.
If the rule applies to one type of tanjking it shoudl apply for all 3!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Meditril
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:07:00 -
[284]
Always the same people whine about nanos, nos, or amarr beeing a bad race: Alle these people have in common that they only want to use brute force... I have installed soooo big weapons on my ship and there was one guy who was simply too smart for me, so I could not gank him:
- he was too fast, I could not hit him with my XXL-Guns. - he nossed me and I run out of cap for my lasers ...
Nano-setups are the only remaining solution against the crazy damage-per-second setups with more than 1000 dps etc. There is no possibility to tank them so you need to out-run them.
(IRONY ON) I propose to introduce a stacking nerve for guns... no ship should produce more than 300 dps! Dev's please help me and reduce the damage output of all weapons! This will also make fights longer lasting. Isn't this what you wanted? (IRONY OFF)
Guys, learn to adapt instead of whining at all the forums.
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Johann Jeneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:08:00 -
[285]
Quote: Rupture is fine as it is, stabber is fine. Don't get what your problem is... Maybe train nav skills if you can't keep range?
Quote: Rupture is still faster than thorax with mwd, last i checked.
Dude ROFL to you
This kind of answer is just as good as me saying to you: NYGASKGDA
go train your googles skill
I'll make it easy for you...
- I USE NANOSHIPS (abuse) and that's STUPID - I think the only viable ships to use those setups should be intys and Minmatar ships - Where did you read i had problems keeping range? - Where did you read the Thorax was faster then Rupture? - What's a Guardian-Vexor? I liked the name saw it going 200m/sec and thought it was fun to post it to show i'm smart, sorry for that, are you so kindly to explain me? - Are you multi-tasking?
I'll make it even easier for you...they will nerf the nanosetups, everytime there is alot of whining the nerf happens, and then what? I still want to keep this kind of ships somewere, why not some Minmatar ships? I don't want to nerf Minmatar, nor boost them, i want to nerf all nanosetups non specialized minmatar/intys instead of global nerf
I want you to answer what i've wrote not what you read
oh...and keep it cool
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:15:00 -
[286]
I hope they learn form tehy mistake and stop thsi nerfing chain!
they nerfed damage mods, people started using stabs, they nerf stabs people start using nanos. They nerf nanosn, people will fit somethign else equaly abusive!
Insert new conter to the game, not remove viable tactics!
When talking about range i think he was answering to me.
So.. for him. Try doing it out of the numbers! Try keeping close to web range so your guns do damage and away form his guns and web. Witha 1 km margin you need more than the plain speed advantage of matar ships. You need nanofibers.
Play minmatar before making any argumenton any nanofiber issue.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Johann Jeneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:27:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Johann Jeneau on 16/01/2007 12:24:09 I was more nerf-nanos then i am now because of people who can be argumentative like Kagura Nikon, like i said i don't use Minmatar ships, you have to help me here
I can smell the nerf coming (NOS too, even more), i think there is not much you or me can do about it, i'm just trying to think of ways to keep this speedtactics ingame, and the only way i see it possible after a nerf is with specialized ships, and you and other minmatar friends are the ones who know what has to be done if the nerf happens.
Neither of us will decide if there will be some kind of NERF... but, and if it happens?
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:31:00 -
[288]
you can make bs faster than frigs anyway.. geddon + 8 overdrives = faster than inty. ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:35:00 -
[289]
As i said. My proposal is teh speed bonus on the nanofibers to be a %. Like 10-15%(form standard to local hull) of speed.
So a typhoon will get far less speed bonus than a stabber, but still far more than a Dominix. That would make heavy nano ships very rare. The only possible nano BS would be the typhoon, and even so at a reduced speed (like 30% per my calculation). A cheap Typhoon at 2 km/s is no problem to any player that is minimally good at PVP. Dominix would never pass 1200-1500 ms. All that of course without the snbake implants an gisty MWD stuff.
This would also help define speed tactics as a minmatar thing. Because currently the number of low slots is more important for speed than the base speed of the ship. For exampl ethe faster ship in game is Zealot! Ammarian! How in hell can the faster ship not be minmatarian? gallente and ammar ships make good nanoships because they have lots of low slots, even better than minmatar. And that is the wrong thing.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Sadao
Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:40:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Tisanta you can make bs faster than frigs anyway.. geddon + 8 overdrives = faster than inty.
Totaly pointless argument because no one will ever use that setup in PVP. I think we are talking about setups that people actually PVP in right now.
And my Typhoon is faster than any average inty, with 2x nano, 2x istab. ---
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mudders
Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:45:00 -
[291]
nerf nothing leave nano/istab alone its fine
Speed/agility is the only anti-blob thing we have.
Eve isnt and shouldnt be Red vs Blue
p.s o/ gabe ______________ [DLINE] Mudders
And on the 7th day the lord spoke'th "...and let there be man-love..." |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:47:00 -
[292]
No you are not faster than any inty setup on same fashion and amount of ISK. Put an MWD II in a minmatar inty and an Overdrive and you have reaally high speeds.
And the point is valid, the point is that the amount of low slots is more important than anything to achieve high speed. It should not! The base speed should be more important.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Johann Jeneau
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 12:59:00 -
[293]
that's a nice solution Kagura Nikon, very nice indeed, i'm going to trust your math, in terms of balance, within the some race a BS shouldn't be faster then a cruiser nor a cruiser then a frig. but the Minmatar should keep their base advantadge over other races in terms of speed and you seemed to have achieved that.
that's the best solution i saw so far
i still think that should be some kind of nerf to NOS, like a Heavy NOS whould be very inefective against a frig, but still be a very viable tactic against same size ships, because as it stands it's suicidal for an inty to go into tackling distance of a BS, that way they aren't doing what they were suppose to do
correct me if i'm wrong, no hardfeelings for proving me wrong, i like to hear other ideias to duel with mines
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:05:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Johann Jeneau that's a nice solution Kagura Nikon, very nice indeed, i'm going to trust your math, in terms of balance, within the some race a BS shouldn't be faster then a cruiser nor a cruiser then a frig. but the Minmatar should keep their base advantadge over other races in terms of speed and you seemed to have achieved that.
that's the best solution i saw so far
i still think that should be some kind of nerf to NOS, like a Heavy NOS whould be very inefective against a frig, but still be a very viable tactic against same size ships, because as it stands it's suicidal for an inty to go into tackling distance of a BS, that way they aren't doing what they were suppose to do
correct me if i'm wrong, no hardfeelings for proving me wrong, i like to hear other ideias to duel with mines
That is probably also true. But some time ago.. a possible solution for nos was suggested and i liked a lot.
When you compeltely NOS the eney ship, you start not gaining more cap, but LOOSING IT!. So putting 4 heavy NOS on a ceptor would be suicidal.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Juan Andalusian
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:10:00 -
[295]
My name is Juan and i haven't fitted a nano for 29 days!
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Great Artista
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:24:00 -
[296]
LMAO @ this thread
I wonder whats next on the whine list? Damps? Webs? EWAR drones? NOS (yes, again)
___________________________________ Your signature picture is more than 90000 bytes, maximum allowed size is 24000 bytes, 420x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) |
Recluse XXX
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:32:00 -
[297]
Nanos = PvP for dummies
//Rec ______________________________________________
Farjung > That is either a very young boy or a female, I cant tell wich!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:41:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies
//Rec
I would say exactly the oposite.
Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good....
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Recluse XXX
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.16 13:56:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies
//Rec
I would say exactly the oposite.
Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good....
What I am saying is that it dosent take to much effort to fit an officer scrambler, nos and nanos to have a win button...
Orbit at 24, nos, scram and let drones do the work, go afk for a couple of minutes, come back and collect loot...yes, that REALLY takes some skills.
//Rec
______________________________________________
Farjung > That is either a very young boy or a female, I cant tell wich!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.16 14:12:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Recluse XXX
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies
//Rec
I would say exactly the oposite.
Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good....
What I am saying is that it dosent take to much effort to fit an officer scrambler, nos and nanos to have a win button...
Orbit at 24, nos, scram and let drones do the work, go afk for a couple of minutes, come back and collect loot...yes, that REALLY takes some skills.
//Rec
So you are trying to tell me that Fitting 2 LAR CC rigs 4 NSO and 4 AC and just click approach and turn the 2 LAR on need too much skills?
Or just jump in acarrier and select target and send fihters on it?
Or put 7 Heavy NOS and 1 Heavy Beam in an Abbaddon with 2 LAR needs too much skills?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
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