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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:31:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 11/01/2007 23:27:39
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc...
You talking about Tas?
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:34:00 -
[62]
Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc.
Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt...
The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:37:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 11/01/2007 23:33:33
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc.
Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt...
The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them.
Actually you can, blackbird jams and something like a stiletto to scram/web, dead nanophoon coming up.
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:38:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth.
LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it.
The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
Mr Peanut
Crimson Star Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:38:00 -
[65]
It's amazing that the same people who want to nerf nano want to nerf nos. That's a really dumb idea. Nerf one or the other, not both. Nos are a good counter to MWD-using ships because it hurts cap, the omgwtfnecessary quality in almost any MWD ship. If you nerf nano and nos at the same time, I swear I'm going to start stockpiling interceptors and AFs. By doing that, the two biggest fears of a frigate: 1. A ship that can almost catch them, and 2. their cap running out, are now eliminated. GG slow battleship/cruiser pilots who whine about this in the first place. You will be your own undoing.
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:40:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc.
Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt...
The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them.
Not only that, their mass will keep them going pretty fast for a while. And I might add that webber drones are fairly useless against nanosetups, my nanocurse kills web drones faster than... um... something really, REALLY fast! - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Kunming
Outcasts
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:48:00 -
[67]
Web drones dont even beat 2km/s and everyone knows while webbed the momentum of ur nano-ship will get you out of web range just fine, so what the hell are you guys on about, the only thing that can stop a nano-setup is a huginn/rapier.. and giving every race a huginn/rapier was not accepted by the minmatar pilots!
Stop argueing pro-nano-setup, you know its overpowered, we know its overpowered and u know what this time even CCP knows its overpowered...
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gamesguy Actually you can, blackbird jams and something like a stiletto to scram/web, dead nanophoon coming up.
Granted, if you ECM or dampen them intys will be able to tackle them. But *only* then. Or if you send 4-5 intys at once vs it (aka blob it) so it simply cannot nos them all dry before they manage to slow it enough. But every nanopilot with a brain will warp away assoon as he gets ECM or damperners on them.
Speedtanks are IMO just too effective.
Imagine: - heavy nos would be removed from the game - active shield/armortanks would be so redicously effective that you would need 5 ships of equal size DPSing to break the tank.
Only way to kill ships with an active armor/shieldtank then would be either blobbing the ship or having a curse with nos/neuts to suck it dry. Balanced? Not really. Thats about how it is vs speetanks atm.
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R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:55:00 -
[69]
So you probably need more than 1 tackler to pin 'em down, big deal. But if they're the I-WIN button, why is it that the last 2 nanophoons (and 1 nanodomi) had to warp away from my lone blasterthron in Aridia? Sure, I couldn't pin him down alone, but by the time he gave up all of 'em were in deep armor while I had still had some shields left...
If he can't kill you (tank him, do more damage faster), you win even if he runs away. Unless you need a killmail to get a hard-on ofc, in which case I feel sorry for you.
What about sensor damps, wanna nerf those too? If I put 3 of those on a tackler I doubt he'll hold me unless he's bumping me. What about smartbombs? T2 Warriors? Any other anti-frig weapons?
People telling me I never fought nano-setups don't know me. Do you have any idea how many Vagabonds we had down in Feyth before I left? It's the same in every other region. This game needs special "behind enemy lines" ships, it's fun to fly and they provide a challenge. If you take 'em out of the game there will be NOTHING left to counter the blob!!
Then people will have no choice but to travel in large groups (and moan about it on the forums), 'cause sooner or later you will run into a blob gatecamp if deep in enemy country. And tanking or super faction modules will NOT save you, not even if you're in a Navy Mega _______________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:55:00 -
[70]
"What a stupid thread. (..)
If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship."
Wait a moment here; if 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space", why are you defending setup which allows you to do precisely the thing you are not supposed to be able to do, i.e. operate solo in 0.0 space?
If you demand people to group in order to fight you in 0.0, then by the same token you should be unable to operate there without group yourself. Pick one or the other, rather than apply different rules to yourself and the others o.(
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: R'adeh
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment?
A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered?
There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter.
Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid.
In order to go that fast you need a HG Snake set. Those implants cost a small fortune, so I think it's kinda justified that you go that fast.
About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc.
Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt...
think you only need some low grades and speed rigs fitted and you will go around 7k. ive seen silly ones at 11,5k though
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:02:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kunming Web drones dont even beat 2km/s and everyone knows while webbed the momentum of ur nano-ship will get you out of web range just fine, so what the hell are you guys on about, the only thing that can stop a nano-setup is a huginn/rapier.. and giving every race a huginn/rapier was not accepted by the minmatar pilots!
Stop argueing pro-nano-setup, you know its overpowered, we know its overpowered and u know what this time even CCP knows its overpowered...
was having a good time reading this thread today at work.
you really must have got pwn by some nano setup, or have a rival that uses one you cant seem to beat. either way, you seem to be throwing around the OVERPOWERED term pretty loosely here.
OVERPOWERED would mean its pro's FAR outweigh its cons, and in this case that simply isn't true.
I have a nanotempest setup i love, but fact is, unless i'm roaming solo looking for a solo kill, its not gonna cut the cheese.
There are a multitude of ships out there that have the ability to tackle and lock down a ship (nano or not). If you actually applied yourself to the game and had any experience pvping you would know this. So, unable to tackle it? Your gang sucks, send some ppl back to dock to adjust setups or get in different ships.
This is not to mention the inherent flaws in a nano setup. Fact is, the faster and more agile you wanna be, the more slots you have to sacrifice. "but hank, they will fit full rack of high's w/ nos, wah wah wah" yeah, how is this different than trying to fight a nosdomi??? Except in this case, unless the ship is a nosdomi, he is not going to have crap for DPS because of it.
More on flaws to a nano setup.... so you are sacrificing a good amount of highs for nos we assume.. but what about DPS? Well, if your fitting turrets of any kind, good luck hitting anything. You have to go w/ missiles. Oh, and not to mention, i dont care what kind of setup you have, likely w/o snakes missiles from others are still gonna hit you. Combine this with the whole problem w/ sacrificing all your lows for the insane speed, this equals NO TANK.
Once you can wrap you head around ADAPTATION you might see that once your nano enemy is locked down he is going to die quickly after that.(yeah, this may take some actually planning on forming your gang and setups, ie: thinking, **oh noes** I think nano setups can be fun, but they certainly aren't practical and die very easily.
Run along and go play a game that doesn't involve thought or strategy. EvE doesn't need or want players like you.
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R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:02:00 -
[73]
Originally by: j0sephine "What a stupid thread. (..)
If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship."
Wait a moment here; if 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space", why are you defending setup which allows you to do precisely the thing you are not supposed to be able to do, i.e. operate solo in 0.0 space?
If you demand people to group in order to fight you in 0.0, then by the same token you should be unable to operate there without group yourself. Pick one or the other, rather than apply different rules to yourself and the others o.(
Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant 0.0 space isn't solo-space for the people living there. If you're in 0.0 you are trying to achieve something as a group, at least most people living there belong to a 0.0 corp/alliance...or you're the ebil pirate fighting those guys, in which case you'll be heavily outnumbered lots of times, so you need speed.
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My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
Yurii Chan
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:11:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Yurii Chan on 12/01/2007 00:08:41 man, the people defending nano setups remind me of the people saying missiles werent overpowered before the nerf.
in either case, nano ships are fine for the most part... that is, until you run into Jiekon on sisi with his nanonyx... now all you people saying that there's a counter to it all, name me a counter to a nanonyx? web? cant web her... bump? had a few ships try including a nanophoon... they all died terrible deaths... kill it? well, 3 dreads couldnt dent its shields much (love hitting a mothership for 100 dmg with a citadel torp.)
wanna know the scary part? Jiekon told me before he self-destructed that his setup was a "Tq setup" aka its doable...
props to the 1st person on TQ to put that setup to use when it happens...
but yea, speed tanking is fun and all but lets face it, the fad is growing old already. getting tired of seeing nothing but NOS ships and NanoNos ships on sisi...
oh and the speed? 981m/s Nyx... fun stuff (not)
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j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:15:00 -
[75]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 00:13:38
"Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant 0.0 space isn't solo-space for the people living there. If you're in 0.0 you are trying to achieve something as a group, at least most people living there belong to a 0.0 corp/alliance...or you're the ebil pirate fighting those guys, in which case you'll be heavily outnumbered lots of times, so you need speed."
If you are "ebil pirate fighting in 0.0 space" then you live in that space and should play by its rules like everyone else. You don't *need* speed, you *want* it because it allows you to do the very thing you deny these "0.0 people" ... and you want it for no other reason but your unwilingness to be arsed.
And if you can't be arsed to play in group, don't dictate others they should be playing in a way you wouldn't want to play yourself. Because how are you going to justify it..?
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Yurii Chan
but yea, speed tanking is fun and all but lets face it, the fad is growing old already. getting tired of seeing nothing but NOS ships and NanoNos ships on sisi...
ppl dont understand that nano setups have been around a loooong time. so why do we see so many nowadays? well its a flavor of the week and ppl love to say "i got my ship to do Xm/s". The need to go faster and faster has always been around in eve, and is moreso now w/ snake implants. The biggest reason however is (of course) the boost to I-stabs, which i think we have good chance of seeing an adjustment to.
i think its more the case that NOS has always been off in combat balance. I think ships should have hardpoint restrictions to NOS just as they do w/ guns or missiles. God i would love to see ppl only able to fit 1 or 2 (maybe 3, MAYBE) nos to their ship (unless its made for it, like amarr recon or somethin)
Lets face it, the dominix is a tier one battleship. Give her a nosdomi setup and you have right crazy ship to take down. Good luck if you run into one solo, i'd rather run into a nanophoon than a nos domi any day of the week
Lines seem to be blurred in here over whether or not ppl think speed is overpowered, or if a full/half rack of NOS is overpowered.
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:21:00 -
[77]
So..to summarize it a bit...what could be done?
- Give nano's the stacking penalty (making them worthless after the third)
- Make nos more role-specific (decrease drain amount, give certain ships (better) bonuses)
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:27:00 -
[78]
Coming to a system near you soon my patented NH of Zooming Doom less mass and same agility as a Vaga but none of the hassle of weapons that have to track.
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:37:00 -
[79]
Nos never never never needs to be nerfed it is a BS pilots only defence against ceptors.
If nos is nerfed then smart bombs need some serious love or bs need some kind of point defence weapon.
Only ceptor pilots and noobs want nos nerfing
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:41:00 -
[80]
Nothing wastes a NanoDomi's time better than a Celestis.
Though I have to say, it is silly that the only tackler drone we've got is slower than a noob in a T1 frig.
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j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:42:00 -
[81]
"So..to summarize it a bit...what could be done?"
If you wanted specifically hit the stabs and nanofiber setups...
* inertia stabs currently remove fraction of mass. switch it to fixed value, similar to how armour plates affect the weight. This way stabilizer which has significant effect on light ship would have far smaller effect on large ship. For large ships there could be perhaps 'medium' and 'large' modules with matching fitting requirements.
* nanofiber structure / overdrives are at the moment opposite -- they add fixed speed bonus, which means they have far larger effect on large ships, than they give the smaller ships. Change it to fraction of ship base instead, with stacking penalty that ensures the speed growth remains linear with multiple modules fitted rather than expotential.
... that's of course in case there was actually intention to adjust how these modules work. Not entirely sure if that's desirable tbh o.O;
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Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:45:00 -
[82]
from a turret users point of view the whole nano thing fricken sucks arse :D
I think it's cool that you can setup ships to go fast but so fast you cant even tackle them in an inty? ---------------------- Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:18:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Byzan Zwyth from a turret users point of view the whole nano thing fricken sucks arse :D
I think it's cool that you can setup ships to go fast but so fast you cant even tackle them in an inty?
This is the main problem, remeber when everyone has small guns and twin oversize AB, or dual mwds - it broke the game.
There has been nanophoons for a long time, its only their popularaty thats the issue. Hell ive seen nano ravens recently, and of course zillions of nanophoon. The situation needs to be addressd, but dont nerf speed setups too much, vagas should go fast and so should intys!
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:25:00 -
[84]
Originally by: MrTripps
Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth.
LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it.
The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try.
okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then..
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:34:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Blind Man
okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then..
no **** Sherlock... - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:44:00 -
[86]
2007.01.11 21:34 Victim: ****** Alliance: Center for Disease Creation Corp: 23rd Armor Destroyed: Abaddon System: C-FP70 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Horza Otho (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: Infortunatus Eventus Ship: Dominix Weapon: Berserker II
LOL K NANO DOMI K LOLOLOL --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:45:00 -
[87]
Originally by: HankMurphy ppl dont understand that nano setups have been around a loooong time. so why do we see so many nowadays?
The buffed inertia stabs and speed rigs gave nanosetups a MAJOR boost.
A curse with 4 LH nanos and a t2 10MN MWD goes 2500 mps, a curse with 2 LH nanos and instabs, a t2 10MN MWD and 2 MWD speed rigs goes 3500 mps. The difference is even bigger for t1 ships which can use 3 rigs.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:45:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Talos Darkhart Nos never never never needs to be nerfed it is a BS pilots only defence against ceptors.
If nos is nerfed then smart bombs need some serious love or bs need some kind of point defence weapon.
Only ceptor pilots and noobs want nos nerfing
Besides escort ships. That's the problem, by having large nos so OMFG powerful against frigs, you remove a large role of cruisers, to protect the battleships.
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Brian Ballbag
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Horza Otho 2007.01.11 21:34 Victim: ****** Alliance: Center for Disease Creation Corp: 23rd Armor Destroyed: Abaddon System: C-FP70 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Horza Otho (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: Infortunatus Eventus Ship: Dominix Weapon: Berserker II
LOL K NANO DOMI K LOLOLOL
what ? Learn to type or go back to wow.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.12 02:03:00 -
[90]
Originally by: R'adeh
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment?
A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered?
There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter.
Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid.
In order to go that fast you need a HG Snake set. Those implants cost a small fortune, so I think it's kinda justified that you go that fast.
About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc.
Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt...
Didi you just say a frigate hull should counter noss with overwhelming damage? Just how is an intercepter supposed to keep a somebody webbed out of nos range?
If a tech II fitted intercepter was having problems catching a Battleship with the best implants, I could *almost* swallow that, I am tallking about multiple Intercepters with multiple faction modules themselves.
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