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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:10:31 -
[1] - Quote
I ran this mission last night and wanted to share my experience with anyone that was interested.
I spent the last couple of days reading the mission walkthroughs online (e.g. EVE Survival) and was kind intimidated. Most sites state the mission is "very hard" and there are a lot of comments about how players were overwhelmed and couldn't kill the Republic Fleet Darkana.
Personally, I didn't find the mission particularly difficult. The mission, then looting and salvaging took a total of 1 hour and 6 minutes. I have about 15M SP and ran it with a Navy Apoc. I did supplement my damage with 5 Warriors and 5 Valkyries. My Navy Apoc uses all Tech 2 equip, pulse turrets and ammo.
The people that made comments about being overwhelmed and getting blown up quickly probably remained close to the Smuggler's Gate the entire mission wave after wave. When I jumped in, I immediately aligned to a station slowly at a little more than 100 m/s. The station was tangent to gate.
I was 75KM away from the third wave that jumped in; with the last waves jumping in between 115 and 125KM away. After I killed all of the waves I was about 180KM away from the gate. I did have to turn around and head straight towards in the incoming waves three times. I was able to kill off each wave with minimal overlap (i.e. I didn't have three waves still in play at any one time).
I would also say that some of the comments indicated that we should use omni shield or armor resistance. I only used Exp and Kin hardeners and found it more than adequate. The EM and Therm damage was minimal and my ship's natural armor resistance was more than enough.
Finally, I probably approached this mission a little too conservatively, but, hey, I would rather take more time to get it done safely than lose a 500M ship! |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4786
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:29:13 -
[2] - Quote
What potentially makes it hard is the 4 min spawn time between waves. If for any reason you have to leave the mission the NPCs keep piling on. That being said, there are definitely ways to mitigate this (as you yourself have discovered). Interesting side note: it's also the highest-paying standard L4 mission.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13071
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:42:29 -
[3] - Quote
The thing to remember is that most of those 'walk throughs' are years old. Much has changed with the ships, weapons and mods we use to kill NPCs, people have more skills and even starting skills are way higher. people used to think tha tmission, and angel bonus room and others were 'hard', even 'killers'. Nowadays they (and the rest of the old content, like DED complexes) are walks in the park now.
Even 'newer' PVE (sansha incursions, wormholes, Burners) are easily defeatable. The ONLY real pve challenge in the game for characters above about 15 mil SP are Drifters, and even they are getting figured out. |
Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:01:34 -
[4] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:What potentially makes it hard is the 4 min spawn time between waves. If for any reason you have to leave the mission the NPCs keep piling on. That being said, there are definitely ways to mitigate this (as you yourself have discovered). Interesting side note: it's also the highest-paying standard L4 mission.
Agreed. The wave intervals could be challenging if you aren't expecting them, or if you can't kill of the BS quickly. Also, the damage from the Minmatar BS goes up fast the closer they get to you. If you stay far away (50 to 65KM) the damage is pretty minimal. Again, at least in my experience last night.
To be told, this was not my first time running this mission. I have run it before, but was in a group with two or three others and didn't really pay attention to what was going on. This was my first time running it solo, which, I think, is why I was initially intimidated.
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:04:24 -
[5] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The thing to remember is that most of those 'walk throughs' are years old. Much has changed with the ships, weapons and mods we use to kill NPCs, people have more skills and even starting skills are way higher. people used to think tha tmission, and angel bonus room and others were 'hard', even 'killers'. Nowadays they (and the rest of the old content, like DED complexes) are walks in the park now.
Even 'newer' PVE (sansha incursions, wormholes, Burners) are easily defeatable. The ONLY real pve challenge in the game for characters above about 15 mil SP are Drifters, and even they are getting figured out.
Also agreed! EVE Survival does show the mission details were updated on 3/22/2014 so that's good. But, yeah some of the comments I was referring to are very old. The more recent comments seem to indicate that folks had a much easier time with it.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
681
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:04:33 -
[6] - Quote
Darkanas have heavy tanks against EM and Thermal damage -- 80% and 70% respectively. They are weakest against Explosive and Kinetic, those resist sitting at 50% and 60% (if you have a relevant Kinetic damage bonus, go with that as it makes up for the 10% difference). The rest of the rats in that mission are actually really weak to Thermal, so no surprise that a Napoc can cut through them so well. Watch local, too, should you ever do that mission again and want a way to get an advance warning for each spawn. About 5 or so seconds before each spawn triggers, a message in red lettering and not from a player will show up in local, the same message repeats per wave.
The reason people suggested omni tanks is because the rats apply damage split between mostly Kenetic, Explosive, and EM. As long as you can kill fast enough, which should honestly not be that hard at all, you should be able to keep up enough of a pace with the spawn rate to keep from being taxed on survival.
Take care with the standings hits for running faction missions, though. Running that series will cause your Gallente and Minmatar standings to plummet if you don't watch for it, both from killing faction ships and derived for completing those missions. Once you hit -5.0 effective, their navies will try to attack and pursue you while you are in their space, though you'll be safe beyond their borders and stay out of their territories. Standings, especially faction, are also kind of a ***** to repair if you let it go and put it off for too long. Fortunately, that's why most people avoid faction missions like the plague, which in turn means the isk value of the tags they drop make for a very lucrative loot table.
Btw, useful reference for looking up individual rat stats, including hidden stats... http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php I would link the mission wiki for looking up mission information, but it's currently down; here it is anyways... http://www.evesurvival.caedwards.net/wikka.php-wakka=MissionReports.htm
Fly safe and have fun, brah...
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:24:45 -
[7] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Darkanas have heavy tanks against EM and Thermal damage -- 80% and 70% respectively. They are weakest against Explosive and Kinetic, those resist sitting at 50% and 60% (if you have a relevant Kinetic damage bonus, go with that as it makes up for the 10% difference). The rest of the rats in that mission are actually really weak to Thermal, so no surprise that a Napoc can cut through them so well. Watch local, too, should you ever do that mission again and want a way to get an advance warning for each spawn. About 5 or so seconds before each spawn triggers, a message in red lettering and not from a player will show up in local, the same message repeats per wave. The reason people suggested omni tanks is because the rats apply damage split between mostly Kenetic, Explosive, and EM. As long as you can kill fast enough, which should honestly not be that hard at all, you should be able to keep up enough of a pace with the spawn rate to keep from being taxed on survival. Take care with the standings hits for running faction missions, though. Running that series will cause your Gallente and Minmatar standings to plummet if you don't watch for it, both from killing faction ships and derived for completing those missions. Once you hit -5.0 effective, their navies will try to attack and pursue you while you are in their space, though you'll be safe beyond their borders and stay out of their territories. Standings, especially faction, are also kind of a ***** to repair if you let it go and put it off for too long. Fortunately, that's why most people avoid faction missions like the plague, which in turn means the isk value of the tags they drop make for a very lucrative loot table. Btw, useful reference for looking up individual rat stats, including hidden stats... http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php I would link the mission wiki for looking up mission information, but it's currently down; here it is anyways... http://www.evesurvival.caedwards.net/wikka.php-wakka=MissionReports.htm Fly safe and have fun, brah...
Yep, yep. All true. Although I found the EM damage was minimal, may be I killed the ships that do the EM damage too quick to notice. I also watched Local as well. Lots of missions have some sort of Red text message to let you know more rats are on the way!
I used to participate in FW pretty heavily so I have -8 and -9 standings with the Minmatar and Gallente so I don't worry about those kinds of things! |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9513
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Posted - 2015.12.03 19:19:05 -
[8] - Quote
It's perhaps simply the best mission chain available (maybe ties with Smash the Supplier)...more please, CCP!
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4790
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Posted - 2015.12.03 21:13:09 -
[9] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:It's perhaps simply the best mission chain available (maybe ties with Smash the Supplier)...more please, CCP! If I could trigger the spawns early (like Damsel), I'd be ecstatic.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2133
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Posted - 2015.12.03 21:23:10 -
[10] - Quote
it is pretty trivial to balance your standings with gal/min if you can run SoE missions. Well maybe not trivial, still a grind, but if you were going to do missions anyways earning a bit of SoE LP isn't the worst thing.
imo the worst thing about EA 5/5 is the respawn timers, causes me to sit around doing nothing for way too long. Sure I can shoot the gate inbetween waves, but that isn't really interesting. One of the last times I did it, I warped in killed the first spawn (maybe 2?), warped out and ran other missions for a while. then I came back to full room aggro and it was better.
I think it would be a really nice mission if they moved it to triggers and reduced the gate EHP a bit.
and all that "it's hard" complaining is really just people that heard it was hard so they fit for tank and forgot about doing dps, so they get overwhelmed and think Oh I just need more tank. Where really you just need more damage and not a whole lot of tank. And as Jenn said, they are pretty old. there have been many changes to mission design (although I don't think ea 5/5 has changed much if at all) and ship design. Prior to sometime in 2007 most missions would spawn all enemies at once, the main key there was managing aggro which it seems a lot of people messed up. A lot of that "mess up" was just launching drones and getting full room aggro. triggers were introduced to most missions to reduce load on the sever.
I think they also nerfed the npcs that spawn in missions at some point. I remember seeing a lot more high bounty battleships, and now you mostly see 500k bs which are just boring. Although that could be a false memory, or a tall tail I heard at some point.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4791
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Posted - 2015.12.04 00:07:06 -
[11] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I think they also nerfed the npcs that spawn in missions at some point. I remember seeing a lot more high bounty battleships, and now you mostly see 500k bs which are just boring. Although that could be a false memory, or a tall tail I heard at some point. Death by 1000 cuts... I remember a lot more bounties over 1m ISK. Now they seem to be half that.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
682
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Posted - 2015.12.04 02:23:27 -
[12] - Quote
The main issue with especially Gallente standings is the SoE Epic Arc runs through their space, so you kind of get lock out of that option. I'm slowly clawing back my standings with them so I can at least run that once and a while for kicks...and I kind of want to try the other L4 Arcs too.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
276
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Posted - 2015.12.04 03:52:19 -
[13] - Quote
(Eta -15-20min) Smash the Supplier with full loot/salvage pays out 50-60 mill plus 10k LP but kills Amarr standings
(Eta 100-120min) Enemies Abound 1-5 with full loot/salvage pays out 180 mill plus approx. 30k LP but kills Gallente/Minnie standings.
Is there a more appropriate way to balance those standings if you wanna spam EA or is destroying your standings with Gal/Min unavoidable? If not, what are the consequences of destroying Gal/Min standings?
Just a thought since I have 10 mission alts that have access to SOE lev 4 missions and I'm thinking of grinding those alts for Amarr to spam run EA. Shuria have 2 Level 4 missions agents from the ministry of internal order so I could chain 10-20 EA missions while I'm at work and run them when I'm off. |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2137
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Posted - 2015.12.04 06:02:03 -
[14] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:The main issue with especially Gallente standings is the SoE Epic Arc runs through their space, so you kind of get lock out of that option. I'm slowly clawing back my standings with them so I can at least run that once and a while for kicks...and I kind of want to try the other L4 Arcs too. from what I remember the SoE arc goes to every bit of space. but the small standings bump with no penalty is kinda nice at the end.
Daniela Doran wrote:(Eta -15-20min) Smash the Supplier with full loot/salvage pays out 50-60 mill plus 10k LP but kills Amarr standings
(Eta 100-120min) Enemies Abound 1-5 with full loot/salvage pays out 180 mill plus approx. 30k LP but kills Gallente/Minnie standings.
Is there a more appropriate way to balance those standings if you wanna spam EA or is destroying your standings with Gal/Min unavoidable? If not, what are the consequences of destroying Gal/Min standings?
Just a thought since I have 10 mission alts that have access to SOE lev 4 missions and I'm thinking of grinding those alts for Amarr to spam run EA. Shuria have 2 Level 4 missions agents from the ministry of internal order so I could chain 10-20 EA missions while I'm at work and run them when I'm off. Fixing gal/min standings are easy with SoE missions. when you are very negative a few decent boosts are very strong. I remember going from shoot on site in gal space to okay with like 3 soe combat storylines. The minmatar bump is a little smaller and I'm still pretty negative but I can still fly in their space.
amarr standings are a bit harder, as the derived standings from caldari aren't very big. I think ammatar standings help nicely but I have no idea about agents or lp store. Caldari are a bit easier as the derived standings are large to amarr.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4798
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Posted - 2015.12.04 07:51:23 -
[15] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Is there a more appropriate way to balance those standings if you wanna spam EA or is destroying your standings with Gal/Min unavoidable? If not, what are the consequences of destroying Gal/Min standings? I just said f*k it and let my Gallente/Minmatar standings tank. The consequence is that the Gallente Navy occasional takes a pot shot at you fall below -5 (although strangely enough you can still enter Gallente or Minmatar space and dock).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2015.12.04 17:27:29 -
[16] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:The main issue with especially Gallente standings is the SoE Epic Arc runs through their space, so you kind of get lock out of that option. I'm slowly clawing back my standings with them so I can at least run that once and a while for kicks...and I kind of want to try the other L4 Arcs too.
Truth be told, I have not completed any of the Arcs. I would like to do the Amarr one, but I can't say I am particularly interested in the others.
I really don't understand people's fixation with the faction standings. If you like to run missions, like me, then, in my opinion, we are best off sticking with one NPC corp for the LPs. There is a lot of ISK to be made with turning LPs into faction ammo in my experience.
My main wasted a lot of time running missions for all sorts of corps across the Amarr Empire, Ammatar, and a couple others. I have about 200K LPs spread across like 10 corps...again, IMHO, it was a complete waste of my time!
Last point, there are plenty of corps out there that do not pitch you against the Big 4. SoE is a great example.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2015.12.04 17:33:10 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Is there a more appropriate way to balance those standings if you wanna spam EA or is destroying your standings with Gal/Min unavoidable? If not, what are the consequences of destroying Gal/Min standings? I just said f*k it and let my Gallente/Minmatar standings tank. The consequence is that the Gallente Navy occasional takes a pot shot at you fall below -5 (although strangely enough you can still enter Gallente or Minmatar space and dock).
Perfect! I couldn't have said it better myself.
The only thing I wish is that if I was traveling some where I could set my course to avoid Gallente or Minmatar held systems (similar to how I can avoid low sec). I have crossed into one of their systems a couple of times while traveling to far off places. Kind of freaked me out the first time!
It might just be my imagination, but I swear it was a lot easier in the past to tell the solvency of a system under the Show Info screens...
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9529
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Posted - 2015.12.04 18:07:28 -
[18] - Quote
My Gal/Min and Am/Cal standings have fluctuated from -god knows (probably -8 or so) to positive something several times over the years - when I grow bored of one set of corps, I just focus on getting the opposing two up - which is an interesting diversion in itself, with the Epic Arcs.
It works out nicely, but it'd be more interesting to have challenging anti-faction missions than Blood Spies or 'Massive' Attack or what have you.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2139
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Posted - 2015.12.05 00:23:11 -
[19] - Quote
Ginnie wrote:Last point, there are plenty of factions out there that do not pitch you against the Big 4. SoE is a great example. SoE gives a lot of kill amarr missions, and I think a few of those involve caldari.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4804
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Posted - 2015.12.05 05:59:31 -
[20] - Quote
Ginnie wrote:Perfect! I couldn't have said it better myself.
The only thing I wish is that if I was traveling some where I could set my course to avoid Gallente or Minmatar held systems (similar to how I can avoid low sec). I have crossed into one of their systems a couple of times while traveling to far off places. Kind of freaked me out the first time!
It might just be my imagination, but I swear it was a lot easier in the past to tell the solvency of a system under the Show Info screens... And apparently in the not-too-distant future it's going to be impossible (or at least a lot harder) maintaining excellent standings with the major Empires (this is what CCP has at least indicated, anyway). When you're selecting a destination you can right-click on individual systems and add them to your avoid list (or go through the map and just add the main Caldari-Gallente and Caldari-Minmatar peering systems). I seem to recall that there was more information at one point as well, but my memory could be off.
Unless you're running Epic Arcs and stick to the major trade hub(s) in your region you should avoid having to enter the space of opposing Empires.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
686
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Posted - 2015.12.06 00:47:57 -
[21] - Quote
Got a link to that? I've heard several claiming to quote CCP on that statement, but I've yet to see where.
Oddly, I find it more challenging trying to come up with a real reason to maintaining good standings with multiple or all High Sec factions, besides not getting shot at by local navy patrols. If anything, more incentives to having high standings are needed rather than making more difficult to keeping people happy. Being molested by navy NPC's and getting the finger from L2-L5 agents are more or less penalties for not giving a crap rather than incentives for staying on people's good side.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4805
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Posted - 2015.12.06 08:26:02 -
[22] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Got a link to that? I've heard several claiming to quote CCP on that statement, but I've yet to see where. It was from one of the PvE round table discussions (sorry, don't have the link handy).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
687
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Posted - 2015.12.06 17:34:42 -
[23] - Quote
TY, should be able to find it without too much trouble.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2145
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Posted - 2015.12.06 20:52:31 -
[24] - Quote
I'd take anything said in a round table with a big grain of salt. Who knows how long it will take to get in game (if it even does), and how exactly will it be implemented. Anyways here's one article on the subject: https://www.themittani.com/features/pve-round-table-big-changes-and-big-ideas-ahead
I almost never spend time in gal/min space, I really don't care about those standings either. It was mostly a stroke of luck that running SoE got me above -5. Although at this point it is nice to be above -5 to minmatar to have access to SoE missions in Lanngisi.
@ChainsawPlankto
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