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Ares Desideratus
EVE OF EVELUTION
328
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Posted - 2016.01.06 07:21:13 -
[31] - Quote
faction war sucks |
Aves Asio
5
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Posted - 2016.01.06 14:43:41 -
[32] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Aves Asio wrote:If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.
Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc. No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions.
They already do. I dont know why but they do. |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
689
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Posted - 2016.01.06 18:44:52 -
[33] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Aves Asio wrote:If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.
Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc. No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions. They already do. I dont know why but they do.
I think you're misunderstanding the phenomenon Estella is describing. You're probably thinking about players who have characters in the different militias, and switch between them to farm on whichever side has the best profit margin. Someone has a Minmatar character they are hapilly farming away with, then Amarr pushes the warzone and gets to Tier IV, and the person then switches to their Amarr character. This happens all the time, and is pretty much impossible to prevent. Farmers gonna farm.
Estella is talking about using "standings tank" exploit to complete FW missions without risk. This was a problem before CCP changed the mission rats AI to fire on friendly militia pilots. I never knew this was going on at the time, but here's how it worked from what I've read. Imagine me out running Gallente FW missions. I warp in, agro all the Caldari NPCs with my Gallente character. I fly off into the distance, able to evade damage. Meanwhile, I warp in a Caldari alt character that the NPCs do not aggress. I use the Caldari character to kill the Caldari mission NPC, the mission for my Gallente character is complete. No risk, yet epic reward. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
133
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Posted - 2016.01.06 19:04:08 -
[34] - Quote
Wouldn't that character eventually lose standings towards that faction, or (since it's usually single target standings hits) would they be able to maintain a positive standing with missioning, or something, to keep doing this?
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
690
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Posted - 2016.01.06 20:01:26 -
[35] - Quote
No idea. Never did it, but the "standings tank" was widely exploited by farmers before it was fixed. I think CCP's solution was inelegant to say the least.
As a "quick fix" it did the job, but the negative impact has been ongoing for years. First, there's the immersion breaking quality of being shot by your own side purely because of a game mechanic. Second, it discourages pvp by providing a perverse disincentive from hunting mission runners to avoid being blown up by "friendly" npcs. Hopefully if CCP is looking at making changes to how standings impact FW players we can get them to look a this. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
133
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Posted - 2016.01.06 20:36:40 -
[36] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:No idea. Never did it, but the "standings tank" was widely exploited by farmers before it was fixed. I think CCP's solution was inelegant to say the least.
As a "quick fix" it did the job, but the negative impact has been ongoing for years. First, there's the immersion breaking quality of being shot by your own side purely because of a game mechanic. Second, it discourages pvp by providing a perverse disincentive from hunting mission runners to avoid being blown up by "friendly" npcs. Hopefully if CCP is looking at making changes to how standings impact FW players we can get them to look a this.
After they made it easier to join FW with the last standings adjustment? Which I think became the reason people were able to easily jump sides. Not a chance, imo.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
972
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Posted - 2016.01.06 20:41:57 -
[37] - Quote
Exactly Rinal.
The real problem with mission rats is how they react to EWAR. Once you warp in and point the FW mission runner, they automatically switch to you. That is a problem. |
exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
44
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Posted - 2016.01.06 22:48:22 -
[38] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Rollbacks will mean fewer targets that just want to warp off from everything. It will mean fewer empty hulls and stabs. And yes it will mean people who want to farm will be better off going elsewhere. Of course you know there are some people in eve who actually like pvp. Some people even joined faction war in order to pvp. This change will be great for them.
Why? Because more people will warp into plexes knowing that the pilot in the plex has a reason to stay and fight. Having more people warp into plexes to fight will mean more people who actually like pvp will enter plexes and join faction war.
It's a win win for pvpers and there will likely be at least as many people running plexes and more "warfare" in faction warfare.
Its true that winning a plex will be a bigger accomplishment than it was before. So maybe ccp should award more vp for capturing a plex than they currently do. Before inferno plexes used to be worth 5xs as much vp.
no, that is win just for neuts which parasites on militia content. FW members cannot dock, can be freely engaged by other militia and what about neuts in area? they kill militia member and then can easily dock in "militia station", or everywhere and cannot be pursuit in hisec...
sry for my English :-(
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Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
228
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Posted - 2016.01.06 23:06:35 -
[39] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:Aves Asio wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Aves Asio wrote:If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.
Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc. No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions. They already do. I dont know why but they do. I think you're misunderstanding the phenomenon Estella is describing. You're probably thinking about players who have characters in the different militias, and switch between them to farm on whichever side has the best profit margin. Someone has a Minmatar character they are hapilly farming away with, then Amarr pushes the warzone and gets to Tier IV, and the person then switches to their Amarr character. This happens all the time, and is pretty much impossible to prevent. Farmers gonna farm. Estella is talking about using "standings tank" exploit to complete FW missions without risk. This was a problem before CCP changed the mission rats AI to fire on friendly militia pilots. I never knew this was going on at the time, but here's how it worked from what I've read. Imagine me out running Gallente FW missions. I warp in, agro all the Caldari NPCs with my Gallente character. I fly off into the distance, able to evade damage. Meanwhile, I warp in a Caldari alt character that the NPCs do not aggress. I use the Caldari character to kill the Caldari mission NPC, the mission for my Gallente character is complete. No risk, yet epic reward. Nope he is right, this is already a thing. (minmatar alt opens missions, amarr alt farms them so "theoretically" you can't aggress him) |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV Cede Nullis
1451
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Posted - 2016.01.07 05:00:24 -
[40] - Quote
exiik Shardani wrote:Cearain wrote:
Rollbacks will mean fewer targets that just want to warp off from everything. It will mean fewer empty hulls and stabs. And yes it will mean people who want to farm will be better off going elsewhere. Of course you know there are some people in eve who actually like pvp. Some people even joined faction war in order to pvp. This change will be great for them.
Why? Because more people will warp into plexes knowing that the pilot in the plex has a reason to stay and fight. Having more people warp into plexes to fight will mean more people who actually like pvp will enter plexes and join faction war.
It's a win win for pvpers and there will likely be at least as many people running plexes and more "warfare" in faction warfare.
Its true that winning a plex will be a bigger accomplishment than it was before. So maybe ccp should award more vp for capturing a plex than they currently do. Before inferno plexes used to be worth 5xs as much vp.
no, that is win just for neuts which parasites on militia content. FW members cannot dock, can be freely engaged by other militia and what about neuts in area? they kill militia member and then can easily dock in "militia station", or everywhere and cannot be pursuit in hisec...
There are various pros and cons to being in militia or not. For example neutrals don't get lp.
But the idea that everyone other than faction war players are parasites is not really the way eve works. It's a single server universe so you can't have just a pure war with anyone. The rest of the players can and will interfere and that is as intended.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
690
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Posted - 2016.01.07 18:58:57 -
[41] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote: Nope he is right, this is already a thing. (minmatar alt opens missions, amarr alt farms them so "theoretically" you can't aggress him)
Which isn't possible any more because the rats will shoot both. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
972
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Posted - 2016.01.07 21:16:34 -
[42] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote: Nope he is right, this is already a thing. (minmatar alt opens missions, amarr alt farms them so "theoretically" you can't aggress him)
Which isn't possible any more because the rats will shoot both.
I believe he is talking about the fact that the Amarr ALT's own FW militia members won't engage him in PvP. They could if they wanted to. |
exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
44
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:28:42 -
[43] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
There are various pros and cons to being in militia or not. For example neutrals don't get lp.
But the idea that everyone other than faction war players are parasites is not really the way eve works. It's a single server universe so you can't have just a pure war with anyone. The rest of the players can and will interfere and that is as intended.
true FW = plexes are accessible only for militia
similar things for pirates, if your sec status drop below -5, you can dock only in "pirates stations" not in all (or you must have any kind of smuggler key which change your name and npc station allows you dock)... "if anyone kill your m8 outside your outpost, do you allow dock for that killer? you do not, but militia station do"
sry for my English :-(
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ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
30
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Posted - 2016.01.08 19:13:49 -
[44] - Quote
exiik Shardani wrote:Cearain wrote:
There are various pros and cons to being in militia or not. For example neutrals don't get lp.
But the idea that everyone other than faction war players are parasites is not really the way eve works. It's a single server universe so you can't have just a pure war with anyone. The rest of the players can and will interfere and that is as intended.
true FW = plexes are accessible only for militia similar things for pirates, if your sec status drop below -5, you can dock only in "pirates stations" not in all (or you must have any kind of smuggler key which change your name and npc station allows you dock)... "if anyone kill your m8 outside your outpost, do you allow dock for that killer? you do not, but militia station do"
What if you are milita and pirate?
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exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
44
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Posted - 2016.01.09 02:00:35 -
[45] - Quote
many choices. they can dock in all station which their faction own(like some pirates in history working for spain,GB or so), or only in faction miltiia station (aka 24th crusade...) + in pirates station or so.... but it is just "role play fiction", something like that never happen in eve
sry for my English :-(
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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
861
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Posted - 2016.01.09 18:11:30 -
[46] - Quote
Ah so much cry from EVE basics...
1. know the rules
2. make a plan that benefits from those rules
3. make profit out of it.
no need to cry, rules are same for every player. |
exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
44
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Posted - 2016.01.10 00:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
no one crying, just speaking about some not logic things ;-)
sry for my English :-(
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Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
720
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Posted - 2016.01.16 07:56:13 -
[48] - Quote
Here are some disjointed ideas:
I believe that they should start adding random events to factional warfare which would encourage people congregating in a single area momentarily in order to obtain an objective. This should not replace the current plexing system - but should act similar to incursions (with less NPC output) which would require a group to obtain an objective. Once it is done they would be provided an award that is lucrative. This would be broadcasted and would have many different forms of objectives (making it different every time)
FW Missions should continue to be lucrative, but should be looked at more so in line so you can do them in proper PvP ships as opposed to needing a mission specific ship. Maybe you can and I'm just ignorant.
It would be nice to see more flexibility with standings. Ie: Promotions continue to happen even at cap and are no longer a single time thing. This type of thing would hopefully allow people to more easily move between militias. If I want to play Minmatar, I can work a while in order to improve my standing, while suffering a penalty to say Amar as we currently do. Then if I want to return I could still do so - by applying the same procedure.
More upgrades for actually investing loyalty points into IHUBS. Make defensive plexing add half or a quarter of the 'real amount' of LP that would have been gained from an offensive plex equivalent. IE Defending a Novice at tier 2 should add 5000 / 2500 LP to the IHUB while giving the player the regular defended amount.
Penalty for warp stabilizers - IE cannot run timers if equipped with them. This is purely conjecture and somewhat heavy handed. But hunting Gallente during the AU timezone I came across about 7 different incursus's solely made for defensive plexing with warp stabs. Of course they could run away and be aligned at all times, but atleast it requires more attention.
Battle Cruiser Sized Plexes - a place where they can monopolize power with an acceleration gate.
Add regular anomalies to Faction Warfare space.
Get rid of Tier 1 status -50% lp gain - Penalizes the losing side too much and feels unnecessary.
Either get rid of the dust connection or make it easier to locate orbital sites. I understand that there are many intel locations that can be used to find battles and support them, but this is way to clunky and relies on dust bunnies not being knobs. Instead, provide a unified channel for both as well as applying the 'random event' philosophy that will show where the battles are on the map. I can then scoot over there and provide support - even when it isn't asked for. This would encourage serendipity engagements as the opposing faction does the same.
Disagree completely with sentiment of locking neuts out of FW plexes. This reduces content.
Reduce the need for tags in the LP store or remove them all together for more LP cost. Alternatively add more tag drops to allow for more diversification within the LP market. (Navy items should be more common).
Suspect timer for non-FW entities when going down gate.
Disclaimer: I have been primarily pirating before rejoining FW. My primary driver for FW is the PvP combined with the profit margins attached to doing so. This allows for more conflict and destruction of toys.
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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
134
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Posted - 2016.01.16 14:12:26 -
[49] - Quote
Before the webbing frigate, i was a big proponent of restricting t2/t3 advanced hulls from entering FW mission complexes. This would have undoubtedly created the objectives which you speak of, if even incidentally, by its encouraging the group activity of clearing them in cruisers. Having done this, it would be easy to have one guy in frigate (who could even scout) to swoop up the tags-again fulfilling another of your requests without any additional changes. The problem with the price and availability of officer tags has everything to do with no one bothering to loot them in these missions.
The iHub injection of lost LP in a defensive plex was my idea too, i think. Meant to encourage the now selfless dplexing of a low contested system.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
240
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Posted - 2016.01.17 04:44:51 -
[50] - Quote
exiik Shardani wrote:no one crying, just speaking about some not logic things ;-)
question, did you join FW to pvp or to farm?
Just Add Water
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exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
44
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Posted - 2016.01.21 01:33:23 -
[51] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:exiik Shardani wrote:no one crying, just speaking about some not logic things ;-) question, did you join FW to pvp or to farm?
to fight Minmatars, but after years so tired for fighting tons of neuts (fw content parasites) and just few real wartargets (real FW content makers).
and yes I every time say "be pirates is so easy, no restriction instead of "FW pilots"...
sry for my English :-(
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Kaivar Lancer
Pegeler Investment Fund
711
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Posted - 2016.01.24 14:06:59 -
[52] - Quote
They should reduce the timer in plexes significantly. I can't imagine anyone finding a 15 minute wait "fun". Reduce the timer (and rewards) by 67% so that completing plexes doesn't seem so much like a chore. It'll also discourage AFK farmers as they'll need to be at the keyboard within 5 minutes. More people traveling between plexes and systems = more pew! |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1692
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Posted - 2016.01.24 14:54:34 -
[53] - Quote
The plex is the content driver, not the content. Waiting in the plex is not supposed to be fun. The timer is there to allow someone to respond to your presence and create content with you.
Reducing timers to allow people to 'ninja' plex rewards at reduced chance of receiving content would be a terrible move. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
134
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:00:52 -
[54] - Quote
I don't mind the timers either. On the other hand, Running an enemy contested button back to zero and then my own time on top of that will be something I will grumble about the whole way through, my bitter hatred for the squid my only drive for remaining, out the immeasurable spite, to compete a bloated timer.
Dual/separate timers, please, cuz that **** sucks. More content can come through to push a plex over with seconds to go than a never-ending back and forth, with sometimes no kills going between those involved.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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