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Mevius Three
Tribe 75
4
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:22:23 -
[1] - Quote
Hi friends, enemies and neutrals!
I wanted to share a mail I just sent to CCP regarding the current state of the game, and lightly share some of my experiences from when I started EVE in 2009, since I feel that the current game isn't even keeping up with the shadow of what EVE once was. Give some feedback about how you feel, do you agree or disagree?
Subject: (Complaint) Sandbox Removal - My Story
Hi CCP.
I don't like complaining and i've never written a complain to a company before, because until now i've never felt close enough to the problem to be given reason to do so, but i've been so invested in EVE over the years that I want to register a complaint now to express how upsetting it is to see the modern day CCP destroying, in all possible ways, the game I once loved, in the hopes that others might let you know the same and go on to make changes for the better in New Eden.
I've played EVE since 2009, the first day of my trial introduced me to an mmo like i'd never seen before, filled with endless possibilities and wonder, with awe inspiring graphics (space was actually black and starry back then, remember?).
Over my first few months of play, I thought EVE was one of the most difficult and vast games to learn that I never had nothing to do. There was little to no tutorial. The ideas behind manual flight and combat tactics were a mystery, an obstable that needed to be trained out by the playerbase by joining a corp that was willing to train new players.
Over the years I went on to run corps like that myself and did everything from solo and small gang high sec war deccing, can flipping and mercenary work, collecting killmails from those I was paid to find and destroy. I designed an entire 2 days training plan for new players to get them upto date with combat survival, and i'd welcome them in with war-game tournaments that rewarded the most promising new pilots with grand prizes and rewards.
The whole universe was difficult to survive in, you needed to stay on your toes, be on your guard and use your initiative to set and complete solo and corp goals, and everytime I logged in it felt like "Welcome back to the sandbox, what will happen today?".
But then CCP felt that the game was too difficult and began introducing better tutorials that explained everything. Then the changes to the background visual effects came and space turned from being black and vast, into colorful and friendly. Procurers were given more hitpoints than battlecruisers when fitted, and yet no incentive was given to use them in dangerous space, rendering them indestructable without a catalyst fleet, spawning casual gameplay styles and players like CODE to thrive.
The illegal friendly fire button was given to corps which, for me atleast, removed a huge amount of the sandbox feel, as now at the tick of a button, you and your corp mates are miraculously safe from internal firepower without needing to design and execute your own internal security measures.
Haulers were given haulage catagories so now ore is in x hauler, ammo is in x hauler and so on, yet more simplification, no matter how big or small, it all adds up.
Industry was overhauled and made easier, everything was and is still being renamed to increase simplicity which reduces the feeling of huge amounts of item variations in the game. Can flipping was practically removed, ninja looting destroyed due to aggro switching AI which even hurt the casual mission runner groups that welcomed new players, null sec sovereignty control was turned into a weird faction warfare/easymode hybrid where people just press a button to turn on their magic module and it suddenly starts capturing a node in space which is, for no reason whatsoever, apparently strategically important.
Now faction warfare lvl 4 missions for Caldari and Minmatar have been smacked to the point of no longer being doable solo at all, let alone farmable in a stealth bomber. It isn't viable to take anything larger through low sec due to numerous strong gatecamping fleets, and the missions don't pay out enough to warrant taking the required fleet of 3-5 people in smaller ships with you.
The only group left to thrive and enjoy their playstyle in the entire universe now is high sec miners and mission runners. Exploration is and always has been personal preference, some love it and some thing it's plain boring and repetetive, but that and wormhole life are the 2 exceptions, but even wormholes are now getting dumbed down with "frigate only wormholes with ice belts" and stuff.
I can't help but be amazed at how well CCP has and continues to destroy this once raw, mysterious and solid sandbox, and turn it into a simplistic, easy to understand space mmo.
And is it working? I see only declining numbers on the EVE launcher.
When I started EVE in 2009, it was advertised as a place to live as your alter ego, with a video showing a nerdy girl in a library in real life who wouldn't hurt a fly, followed by her EVE alter ego of a supreme space villain with no mercy given to anyone who crossed her. You've destroyed EVE for me, CCP, and i'm very much struggling to find reasons to stay around, since alot of the people i've known for years have already left.
Thank you for the 6 years of entertainment, but please forgive me if the next time I leave for a short break, I don't return.
I sincerely hope that in the future EVE returns to its difficult learning curve and raw sandbox roots, but until it does I can no longer recommend the game, as I honestly don't believe that today's new player experience will live up to the stories I tell people about my own experiences.
As somebody who commented on Steam said... Post ~2011 EVE was a sandbox, now it's 50% griefers, 50% industrialists.
Long live legacy EVE.
Sincerely, Mevius Three |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4819
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mevius Three wrote:Now faction warfare lvl 4 missions for Caldari and Minmatar have been smacked to the point of no longer being doable solo at all, let alone farmable in a stealth bomber. It isn't viable to take anything larger through low sec due to numerous strong gatecamping fleets, and the missions don't pay out enough to warrant taking the required fleet of 3-5 people in smaller ships with you. Yes, because being able to make upwards of 2-billion ISK/hour running FW missions is borderline poverty. Boo f**king hoo.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Mevius Three
Tribe 75
5
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:39:08 -
[3] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Mevius Three wrote:Now faction warfare lvl 4 missions for Caldari and Minmatar have been smacked to the point of no longer being doable solo at all, let alone farmable in a stealth bomber. It isn't viable to take anything larger through low sec due to numerous strong gatecamping fleets, and the missions don't pay out enough to warrant taking the required fleet of 3-5 people in smaller ships with you. Yes, because being able to make upwards of 2-billion ISK/hour running FW missions is borderline poverty. Boo f**king hoo.
2 billion ISK/hour isn't right, it was never higher than 400mil ISK/hour per toon, but your point is the same and I agree.
It definately needed a nerf. Half the LP payout by 50% or make the target rat(s) harder to kill so it takes longer and the ISK/hour drops by half, 200mil an hour is fine and in-line with other higher risk activities, but now they are not doable, so income on FW lvl 4's has gone from MAXIMUM, with max skills and implants, 400mil ISK/hour, to 0.
Most people though, who weren't hardcore players, made around 100-150mil ISK per hour in tier 4, and that's IF they cash out decent items from the LP store and IF the tier is infact that high. tier 1 and 2 paid high sec level 4 mission amounts.
It needed an alteration, but it wasn't as broken as you think. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
474
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
A tl;dr would be helpful.
Your post comes across as sincere, but I couldn't tell what you want CCP to do: make the game more obscure, harder to master, less forgiving, or ??? Do you have any specific suggestions?
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13131
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:42:28 -
[5] - Quote
Someone beat me too it. This is about FW missions.
CCp has to know by now that any time they fix something that should have never been allowed to get out of hand in the 1st place, you will get posts like this. Stop giving people unbalanced stuff for them to become spoiled by and these posts stop happening.
This happened when CCP finally got around to fixing the bug that allowed people to farm lvl 5 missions in high sec after almost 2 years of allowing it. It's happening again on a smaller scale now that people are having trouble afking null sec anomalies (one guy literally said using guns to make isk with is too hard LOL). It happened with the 1st incursion nerf and every time CCP tries to balance high sec incursions. It's even happening with missions now that some people are noticing you can't blitz a few of them like you could up till last week lol.
I'm proud to call myself a PVE player (in a pvp centric game) but hot damn, PVErs can be some of the worst whiners you ever met (not just in EVE, change anything about awards or leveling in ANY mmo and you get this whining). It's good that CCP has historically focused more on pvp. |
Mevius Three
Tribe 75
5
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:43:40 -
[6] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:A tl;dr would be helpful.
Your post comes across as sincere, but I couldn't tell what you want CCP to do: make the game more obscure, harder to master, less forgiving, or ??? Do you have any specific suggestions?
To be honest I wanted to refrain from mentioning any changes myself since I don't always understand the more technical side of implementing changes. My goal here was mainly to let CCP and I suppose other players know how I feel and see what, if anything, is done with the information.
A revert to a saved version of the 2009 database with graphical updates and extra ships in the game today would be brilliant haha. |
Kuetlzelcoatl
13
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:43:48 -
[7] - Quote
Sometimes its not the game that changes, but you. One can become bored once they have mastered a thing.
Now given that, mastering from one side and some playability changes from the other can make things seem worse for the older players in regard to dumbing things down.
I've played this game off and one since early 2006 and many of the things you dislike and think detract from the game I enjoy.
So, essentially, CCP can't please everyone, nor should they try to.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27011
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:44:50 -
[8] - Quote
Let's not forget the horrible securitybutton ...
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4819
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:45:54 -
[9] - Quote
Mevius Three wrote:2 billion ISK/hour isn't right, it was never higher than 400mil ISK/hour per toon, but your point is the same and I agree.
It definately needed a nerf. Half the LP payout by 50% or make the target rat(s) harder to kill so it takes longer and the ISK/hour drops by half, 200mil an hour is fine and in-line with other higher risk activities, but now they are not doable, so income on FW lvl 4's has gone from MAXIMUM, with max skills and implants, 400mil ISK/hour, to 0.
Most people though, who weren't hardcore players, made around 100-150mil ISK per hour in tier 4, and that's IF they cash out decent items from the LP store and IF the tier is infact that high. tier 1 and 2 paid high sec level 4 mission amounts.
It needed an alteration, but it wasn't as broken as you think. I was making 200m ISK/hour with a 50m Stealth Bomber in Caldari FW under Tier 2 (about 15k LP per mission). And that was through a grand total of 3 low-sec mission hubs that were available - and with quite a number of opposing players (both Gallente FW and neutrals). This was cashing out for fairly basic LP items, so I certainly wasn't optimizing conversions.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13133
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:48:51 -
[10] - Quote
Mevius Three wrote:
it was never higher than 400mil ISK/hour per toon
It was, i clocked 500 several times, selling the worst things you could sell (complete ships).
Quote:
Most people though, who weren't hardcore players, made around 100-150mil ISK per hour in tier 4, and that's IF they cash out decent items from the LP store and IF the tier is infact that high. tier 1 and 2 paid high sec level 4 mission amounts.
It needed an alteration, but it wasn't as broken as you think.
My deadpsace fit pirate battleship could pull maybe 90 mil an hour in null sec, and you're saying that 100-150 mil in FW using a throwaway frig sized ship (my minmatar FW purifiers cost 43 mil fully fit) wasn't terribly unbalanced.
You should NEED a small gang to do FW missions. They are missions with a visible beacon in hostile space. The problem was CCP letting people think this was solo content for so long, not them fixing them.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1803
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 13:53:29 -
[11] - Quote
Personally I'm waiting on what CCP decides on Skill trading and frankly, 2 months into that blog and zero updates from the CSM or CCP convinces me more and more that we're back to 2011 where CCP is doing monumentally ******** stupid stuff. Making dumb decisions and not at all focussing on EVE or its core.
I had hopes past 2011 because some really good stuff has happened since (also a lot of monumentally terrible stuff) but it seems it was misplaced. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4822
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Posted - 2015.12.10 14:00:56 -
[12] - Quote
Removing the ability for players to literally print PLEX through FW is bad how exactly?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
92
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Posted - 2015.12.10 14:01:59 -
[13] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:A tl;dr would be helpful.
He's whining that he cant make 3-400m p/h anymore in FW plex's. Writes an open letter to CCP but doesnt hide his real intentions very well. |
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1000
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Posted - 2015.12.10 14:16:43 -
[14] - Quote
So you complain game become too easy because noobs got tutorials and too hard because you can't ninja loot like before and do fw missions like before.
Classic case of game being hardsy...
Edit
Something something grrr backgrounds. |
Mai Khumm
Lonetrek Freeport
738
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Posted - 2015.12.10 14:47:52 -
[15] - Quote
IB4L
Toronto EVE Thread!
[email protected]
@Toronto_EVE
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27017
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:50:19 -
[16] - Quote
Well he did use paragraphs at least and knew what will come for him beforehand.
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9640
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 14:54:48 -
[17] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Please make T3 tear jars. My T2 ones are insufficient for this Niagara Falls-like outpouring.
Thanking you kindly,
Bumble
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1090
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 15:14:10 -
[18] - Quote
CCP should indeed revert to less blindingly glaring bright nebulae, that I agree with.
The rest, not so much.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
380
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Posted - 2015.12.10 16:55:54 -
[19] - Quote
Gasp! CCP has evolved the game by actually documenting it, reworked the NPE to make getting started easier to understand (and thereby converting more trial subscriptions to full ones), substantially upgraded the graphics, etc. Oh my lord! Now there are more players who have a slightly less steep learning curve and who may actually have enough of a good time as newbies to stick with the game. Horrors!
News flash to the OP; CCP is a corporation in business to make money for its investors. Keeping the game stuck in 2009 with half the subs it has now would not accomplish that. Also, grrr new players having it easier than you did.
Get a clue man and get over yourself. Eve is a game not a MENSA exam or a RL job. It's supposed to be fun not just an eternally dark and grim grindfest. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27045
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 16:59:14 -
[20] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:CCP should indeed revert to less blindingly glaring bright nebulae, that I agree with.
The rest, not so much. For that we have a slider now.
It actually works without breaking things! :D
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1796
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:06:33 -
[21] - Quote
I'm with you, it was fun killing those FW mission bombers as an entry level solo PvP experience ... no more.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Nalia White
Tencus
147
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:11:06 -
[22] - Quote
well you have some good points in there of course but seriously. you are ranting that there is a proper tutorial now and you had to learn everything yourself? seriously? also you complain that the graphics actualy got updated and space isn't looking like the windows 95 screen saver anymore? and on top of that you rant that you can't make billions solo anymore without effort?
you seem to have other issues mate :)
gaming was always my biggest hobby and since i play eve i rarely play other games so i am also very invested in this game. the decline in numbers and some actions from ccp makes me a bit sad but after reading your post it seems more like a nostalgia issue you have. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
23247
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:18:54 -
[23] - Quote
Mevius Three wrote:As somebody who commented on Steam said...
Well, I read up to this point, and then it lost all credibility.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Paranoid Loyd
7665
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:20:49 -
[24] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Mevius Three wrote:As somebody who commented on Steam said... Well, I read up to this point, and then it lost all credibility. But that's pretty much the end.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
251
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:30:48 -
[25] - Quote
I agree with the colouring of systems, it's very odd having space coloured like your faction. Much preferred the old space look.
I also agree about making things easier, continually making things easier tends to ruin games.
Although as for some of the changes, they occur due to groups going over the top and so a way of balancing it back out is looked at. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
23248
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Posted - 2015.12.10 17:31:11 -
[26] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Mevius Three wrote:As somebody who commented on Steam said... Well, I read up to this point, and then it lost all credibility. But that's pretty much the end.
Meaning that the ending invalidated all that came before it. Thus is the power of the Steam review.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Colt Blackhawk
bad InTentiOnZ senseless intentions
331
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Posted - 2015.12.10 20:16:57 -
[27] - Quote
Epic wall of text from threadmaker Epic short summary from me why you are whining: *Weeeeeeee Ia am not able to make 300mil/h with a 4 month old toon in minmatar militia while risking a 30mil bomber. Weeeeee.... I hate you CCP....*
[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2439
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:18:17 -
[28] - Quote
OP, I agree with some of your points and I have other reasons that my care factor for EVE is dropping.
Don't worry about people getting fixated on the FW stuff. They missed the point of your letter by a mile.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
133
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:47:13 -
[29] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Eve is a game not a MENSA exam or a RL job. It's supposed to be fun not just an eternally dark and grim grindfest.
People taking eve seriously + the same people losing assets = drama, grief and tears
And I find this equation fun. Therefore I disagree with you. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2763
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Posted - 2015.12.11 00:16:29 -
[30] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's even happening with missions now that some people are noticing you can't blitz a few of them like you could up till last week lol.
Not that I'm complaining about blitzing vanishing as I always didn't like it and felt full complete was the way to go, could you provide details?
As for Op. Obscure is not hard. Bad game mechanics are not hard. Strange exceptions that were a hack to allow fit testing are not hard. Literally everything you are complaining about has actually been an improvement to the game as it means you can no longer exploit bizarre game mechanics. Now those who pull off good awox'es actually deserve it. Incidentally, all the news worthy awoxes were in low sec & null sec, including awox themselves. And therefore would still have been possible under the flag. |
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