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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2015.12.21 12:51:21 -
[1] - Quote
So I've heard lots of talk about how the Roqual is outdated, useless, will be soon pointless with Citidels. At first I thought this fear mongering was the work of the bored, characterless player base that out rather complain about aspects of the game they don't get, or don't get creative with. Now, after looking into the "problem" I do recognise the Roqual has faults. Below are re current bonsuses of the ship.
Traits: Capital Industrial Ships bonuses (per skill level): 20% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage 5% reduction in fuel consumption for Industrial Core 10% bonus to Mining Foreman Links effectiveness when using Industrial Core 50% bonus to Capital Remote Shield Booster range
Role bonus: 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue Can fit Clone Vat Bay Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously 900% bonus to Survey Scanner range 200% bonus to Cargo Scanners range Can fit Industrial Core
First off, no one aside from the noobish, or just plain ignorant crowd takes a Roqual to open dead space, let alone asteroid belts so why does it currently need drone bonuses or survey and cargo scan range increases?
Simply it doesn't, unless POS completely are removed after Citidels launch. So to remove these useless rolls is a start. The base line stats for this ship are quite reasonable, almost to generous. To truly make it a industry nexus though it needs more fixed position bonuses. This is my proposal to replace its current setup:
Traits: Capital Industrial Ships bonuses (per skill level): 10% reduction in fuel consumption for Industrial Core 10% bonus to Mining Foreman Links effectiveness when using Industrial Core 15% reduction in jump fuel consumption 5% bonus to ship cargo and fleet maintenance bay volume
Role bonus: 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue 50% bonus to Capital Remote Shield Booster amount 250% bonus to Capital Remote Shield Booster range Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Can fit Clone Cat Bay Can fit Industrial Core
Explanation:
Lowering the fuel requirements will better its efficiency, while the capital shield repairs were buff and relocated as a role bonus to also help keep its mining and defensive fleet healthy. Finally, a slight buff to cargo and fleet hanger volume to give it more general storage. |
Iain Cariaba
2240
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Posted - 2015.12.21 14:22:27 -
[2] - Quote
CCP has already stated they know the Rorqual needs fixed. How could they not when this is "How to fix the Rorqual" thread #856335420075.7?
Why don't you try waiting til CCP anounces the changes they already have planned, and post in the feedback thread when they do.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Scath Bererund
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
14
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Posted - 2015.12.21 15:02:26 -
[3] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:CCP has already stated they know the Rorqual needs fixed. How could they not when this is "How to fix the Rorqual" thread #856335420075.7?
Why don't you try waiting til CCP anounces the changes they already have planned, and post in the feedback thread when they do.
because it's CCP maybe?
and CCP is know for "forgetting" about things |
Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
0
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:34:43 -
[4] - Quote
I think they need to be adjusted to provide more on grid benefits. Why are there ships that are not flown and hidden in POS's? That's broken! Give it a Siege Mode too! Make it so it tanks like a Boss. That would give it time to put out some DPS on small gangs and time to rally a defensive force from their Corp/Alliance. That seems simple right? Am I missing something? I mean, you would not put a Rorqual on grid solo, it would need need 6+ minim miners to justify its presence. That's a lot of drones... And if one of the miners gets attacked, the Rorqual does have its shield boost.
Would also like to incorporate On vs Off Grid boosting:
Pardon the rough math, just painting a picture on what this would look like. Obviously each value would have to be tweaked/adjusted accordingly to meet the proper levels CCP deems what they want in the game.
Off Grid - little boost +15% gain (20% with implants) On Grid - Normal boost +20% (25% with implants) On Grid with Fully Trained Squad Leader(s) +25% (30% with implants)
That way there are also on grid command ship benefits. These change would also work well with the Orca as well.
T3 Destroyers should cost aprox 160M. Change 50% to 25% weapons damage bonus.
Remove Insurance from game. Undocking should be risky with no paybacks!
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Have more then 1 Clone in a station without loss.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2015.12.22 00:04:42 -
[5] - Quote
I'd be all for on grid boosts, he'll of be okay with making it a super miner with 6 strip miners and the compressor to not Ot, but no matter how strong the tank all you need to loose one expensive rig is a wormhole with PL, CFC, or NHB on the other side. They'll commit what it takes to drop that think like its hot. Which also brings me to hot drops, yea still have them too.
The way I see it, this thing can't safely function in open space, it has to have a POS or a station on grid/in docking range to save it in an "Oh $hit" scenario. Maybe when Citidels come along these can tether to it as get enough support to save its @$$ until it can dock.
On a side note I though of an other bonus set for it: 10% reduction per level to industrial core duration.
This plus a fuel bonus would get it out of triage sooner, and get it on the move to safety. Actually this could be better that the other yet. |
Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 00:32:19 -
[6] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:I'd be all for on grid boosts, he'll of be okay with making it a super miner with 6 strip miners and the compressor to not Ot, but no matter how strong the tank all you need to loose one expensive rig is a wormhole with PL, CFC, or NHB on the other side. They'll commit what it takes to drop that think like its hot. Which also brings me to hot drops, yea still have them too.
The way I see it, this thing can't safely function in open space, it has to have a POS or a station on grid/in docking range to save it in an "Oh $hit" scenario. Maybe when Citidels come along these can tether to it as get enough support to save its @$$ until it can dock.
On a side note I though of an other bonus set for it: 10% reduction per level to industrial core duration.
This plus a fuel bonus would get it out of triage sooner, and get it on the move to safety. Actually this could be better that the other yet.
But the same can be said about other Carriers in the game. Rarely do they undock solo, and when they do they are at a huge risk no different then the Rorqual. And those that solo use Carriers for WH or Null ratting get hunted no differently anyways. The idea, and its no different then Air Craft Carriers in the real world, they require support from a fleet. Air Craft Carriers are real world bait ships. They need presence of a support fleet with top notch intel. It's why its hard to sink a Air Craft Carrier. Ideally you would want to undock with a sizable fleet, and the bigger the fleet, the more altTABed scouts scout adjacent systems for threats. Cap Ships make most of their purpose in Player Owned Space, whether its Null or WH, and both of those have pretty good measures to counter hot drop with proper intel and locations to which you would as safely undock and perform a massive Industrial Operation.
T3 Destroyers should cost aprox 160M. Change 50% to 25% weapons damage bonus.
Remove Insurance from game. Undocking should be risky with no paybacks!
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Have more then 1 Clone in a station without loss.
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Andrew Indy
POS Party
142
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Posted - 2015.12.22 02:41:25 -
[7] - Quote
Bobman Smith wrote: But the same can be said about other Carriers in the game. Rarely do they undock solo, and when they do they are at a huge risk no different then the Rorqual. And those that solo use Carriers for WH or Null ratting get hunted no differently anyways. The idea, and its no different then Air Craft Carriers in the real world, they require support from a fleet. Air Craft Carriers are real world bait ships. They need presence of a support fleet with top notch intel. It's why its hard to sink a Air Craft Carrier. Ideally you would want to undock with a sizable fleet, and the bigger the fleet, the more altTABed scouts scout adjacent systems for threats. Cap Ships make most of their purpose in Player Owned Space, whether its Null or WH, and both of those have pretty good measures to counter hot drop with proper intel and locations to which you would as safely undock and perform a massive Industrial Operation.
There are a few issues with this.
1.A Rorqual is more expansive (Double the price ?) 2.When a carrier undocks in a fleet that fleet is designed to kill stuff. Exhumers, not so much. 3.Using N+1 carriers works well, N+1 Rorquals is ******** (a couple Cap reps is not very much vs a good fleet) and every person not in a minining ship is lost income . Even if you say that they should have DPS support, why not just go without boosts and have 100% miners and make more isk for less risk. 4. Intel is not perfect. People can roll a WH into you in a seconds (I have seen a fleet go from Sig on Scanner to T3s on grid in about 20 seconds and caps on grid in 60 seconds and that included combat scanning. )
Personally i think that if you want Rorquals on grid you have to remove the industrial core/siege altogether. It has a horrible align time, maybe just make it a bit worse to compensate (make it resistance to webs so you cant easily web warp it)
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Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 03:31:40 -
[8] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Bobman Smith wrote: But the same can be said about other Carriers in the game. Rarely do they undock solo, and when they do they are at a huge risk no different then the Rorqual. And those that solo use Carriers for WH or Null ratting get hunted no differently anyways. The idea, and its no different then Air Craft Carriers in the real world, they require support from a fleet. Air Craft Carriers are real world bait ships. They need presence of a support fleet with top notch intel. It's why its hard to sink a Air Craft Carrier. Ideally you would want to undock with a sizable fleet, and the bigger the fleet, the more altTABed scouts scout adjacent systems for threats. Cap Ships make most of their purpose in Player Owned Space, whether its Null or WH, and both of those have pretty good measures to counter hot drop with proper intel and locations to which you would as safely undock and perform a massive Industrial Operation.
There are a few issues with this. 1.A Rorqual is more expansive (Double the price ?) 2.When a carrier undocks in a fleet that fleet is designed to kill stuff. Exhumers, not so much. 3.Using N+1 carriers works well, N+1 Rorquals is ******** (a couple Cap reps is not very much vs a good fleet) and every person not in a minining ship is lost income . Even if you say that they should have DPS support, why not just go without boosts and have 100% miners and make more isk for less risk. 4. Intel is not perfect. People can roll a WH into you in a seconds (I have seen a fleet go from Sig on Scanner to T3s on grid in about 20 seconds and caps on grid in 60 seconds and that included combat scanning. ) Personally i think that if you want Rorquals on grid you have to remove the industrial core/siege altogether. It has a horrible align time, maybe just make it a bit worse to compensate (make it resistance to webs so you cant easily web warp it)
Yes, your right. But whatever steps we can take to increase the use of Rorquals use on grid should be considered. That is the goal right? Will we lose some Rorquals? Yes, but if the gains are worth this risk then people will do it. Right now its not worth it and all it provides are expensive boost that needs to be inside the walls of a POS. That's not a good game mecanic.
Just some random answers, not necessarily solutions: 1.) Maybe some part of the solution is to lower the cost some? 2.) Indy not meant to kill stuff, but could still pack a punch to little fleets. Why not make a Rorqual bonus one that give Dscan Immunity for X number of KM so that the fleet is sheltered from Dscan. That would make scouting harder. 3.) And the DPS support I was referring to would be the 5x a person in fleet of drones. Each one with aprox 150DPS could do damage, again to small roaming gangs. 4.) Loses will happen, and if it takes that much effort to down a Rorqual fleet, then they earned it. A proper Rorqual Fleet is not meant for the small industry fleet that wants to operate in Low sec, the Ocra is to scale for those doing that. Love it or hate it, Rorquals will be part of large Null Corps with some WH use.
T3 Destroyers should cost aprox 160M. Change 50% to 25% weapons damage bonus.
Remove Insurance from game. Undocking should be risky with no paybacks!
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Have more then 1 Clone in a station without loss.
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Xavindo Sirober
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
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Posted - 2015.12.22 04:36:12 -
[9] - Quote
latest info is that they were working on it, last suggestioned thrown in by CCP was capital mining drones with the equivalant mining speed of 2 or 3 barges, from EVE Down Under.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3uiujv/actual_rorqual_fix_from_eve_down_under/
Ofcourse most of the rorqual lovers out here went nuts when hearing this.
all we know for certain are the 3 pillars need to be tackled by CCP.
Best bet so far is remove industrial core and change traits/roles accordingly. because no sane person is going to set a rorqual in a belt for 5 minutes.
Best bet is to wait, i have made among with a few dozen others numerous posts about it, i suggest looking at a few pages or use the search button with rorqual in it :) |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
521
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Posted - 2015.12.22 04:43:26 -
[10] - Quote
Xavindo Sirober wrote:latest info is that they were working on it, last suggestioned thrown in by CCP was capital mining drones with the equivalant mining speed of 2 or 3 barges, from EVE Down Under.
[Rorqual, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II
Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Capital Shield Booster I
Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Improved Cloaking Device II
Capital Higgs Anchor I Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
And profit while you stay aligned at 15ms
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2015.12.22 10:24:36 -
[11] - Quote
Xavindo Sirober wrote: Best bet so far is remove industrial core and change traits/roles accordingly. because no sane person is going to set a rorqual in a belt for 5 minutes.
That what I was aiming at, if the industrial core could have a skill based time and fuel reduction to where you could get it down to 30 seconds between cycles then youd have a decent chance to unseige and jump out of system before anyone can land on top of you to tackle.
With Citidels maybe all you would have to do is unlock and siege in place while remaining tethered to the station. Trouble shows up and you unseige and dock up.
As far as capital mining drones go, it's an interesting idea but again why risk that expensive of a ship till mine in a belt? I wouldn't. Orcas are the best in grid support ship. Leave that role to them, let them be trumped by Rorquals, but for reasons beyond better boosts. Rorquals should be the best boosters, but they need something better to make them stand out, or a total make over to get pilots to actually bring them into a belt.
I think price lowing would have to be a huge factor to get pilot to bring into a belt. One big juicy target or 6/7 seven little ones that can't all be tackled. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2015.12.22 11:00:02 -
[12] - Quote
Rorqual Edits:
Lower hull production cost/requirements 20% Permit drone bay capacity to facilitate capital mining drones and possibly only a few wings of fighters.
Traits: Capital Industrial Ships bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Mining Foreman Links effectiveness when using Industrial Core 10% reduction in fuel consumption for Industrial Core 20% reduction to Industrial Core duration 20% bonus to Drone hitpoints, damage, and mining amount
Role bonus: 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue 50% bonus to Capital Remote Shield Booster amount 250% bonus to Capital Remote Shield Booster range Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Can fit Clone Vat Bay Can fit Industrial Core
Industrial Core - Add the following benefit: Shield Boost Bonus 100% Shield Boost Duration Bonus 25% |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2015.12.22 17:22:22 -
[13] - Quote
Feawen likes this. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.12.23 07:11:58 -
[14] - Quote
Make it so you can throw it around with a command destroyer.
A signature :o
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Xavindo Sirober
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
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Posted - 2015.12.23 16:29:12 -
[15] - Quote
The person(s) hosting the EDU Facebook page have been very helpful and uploaded this for me.
https://youtu.be/khMOLkPBG9Y
Officially the latest info.
Cant wait on the feedback page of this one |
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