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Master Han
Order of Endruring Marshalls
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:04:00 -
[1]
I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum.
I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game.
Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas.
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Kharakan
Amarr Morticus Impendium
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:05:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kharakan on 17/01/2007 22:02:44 "sum1 eltz iz steelin mai roidz, plz let me killz dem plz"?
EDIT: I'm all for nerfing NPC corps somewhat, but not so that people can kill other miners and take their stuff 'lulz'. But if they're macro miners go ahead
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Tkdzzix
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:12:00 -
[3]
No NPC corps, No macrobots, just me, my hulk, and some veldspar crystals BAYBEEEEEEEE...
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:13:00 -
[4]
So to get the 500 (as an example...I have no idea) macro miners you want to toss 20,000 (again an example) people who have no desire to be in a player run corp on the street?
Yes some people hide in NPC corps to avoid some issues and exploit the game. Most people in there I suspect like it that way though as their preferred method of gameplay. When you have Alliances like Privateers war deccing the Universe it is not surprising many feel more comfortable in the NPC corps.
If it is macro miners you are after there are many things you can try to mess up their day. Steal their ore, blast their cans, suicide gank them, bump them out of position, perhaps get aggro on them by jetting a can of yours by the same name and move their stuff into that one and hope the macro loots it...there are lots of ideas on this.
If you really find a big macro OP petition them then have a ball taking their stuff.
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Master Han
Order of Endruring Marshalls
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Humpalot
If it is macro miners you are after there are many things you can try to mess up their day. Steal their ore, blast their cans, suicide gank them, bump them out of position, perhaps get aggro on them by jetting a can of yours by the same name and move their stuff into that one and hope the macro loots it...there are lots of ideas on this.
Wont I get attacked by CONCORD for stealing from the can or get blown up by sentry guns if I try to dock?
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Tkdzzix
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:22:00 -
[6]
Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!!
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Master Han Wont I get attacked by CONCORD for stealing from the can or get blown up by sentry guns if I try to dock?
Nope.
If you steal from a can the player you stole from gets a 15 minute kill rights timer on you. So, within that 15 minutes they can shoot you without CONCORD coming. Note if you shoot FIRST then CONCORD will come get you. However, once they shoot at you then you can shoot back.
Pirates will play this game. Go steal your ore, ticked off player attacks them back, pirate jets back to station, jumps in PvP ship and comes back out and blow them up.
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Master Han
Order of Endruring Marshalls
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tkdzzix Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!!
How do I tell if they are macro mining then?
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Tkdzzix
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tkdzzix on 17/01/2007 22:39:00 Observation. One main thing is to look at their bio and check the employment history and agents. If they have been in the same noob corp all their life, and only have 1 agent, there is a high possibility that they are a macro. In adition to this, you will usually have more than one ship with similar names, sometimes random garbage, sometimes things like Airplane Pilot and Car Driver, things like that. If you come to a belt and see a couple covetors mining away that exhibit these symptoms try convoing them. Might have to wait for the hauler to show to get a live person if it is someone doing like I do and runnning multiple accounts (perfectly legal, and accepted play). IF no response to the convo, or you get some kind of nonsense response, hop in a shuttle and head over to their can, pull out one unit of ore and then jet that to make a can of your own, then slap all their ore into your can. If the convoing didn't reveal that they were a real player, then this will, as they will either convo you asking why you stole their ore, or start screaming in local. If that is the case, then apologise and let them have the ore back, if still nothing, then its time to get your hauler and start exploiting the macros weakness. Occasionally, using these tactics, you will uncover what I like to call a 'sweatshop op', which is some poor sod in some 3rd world country that is running 4-10(or more) accounts in exchange for room and board (belive me, its real). In this case you will probably get someone who communicates in VERY poor english trying to get you to leave them alone. And in rare cases, these operations will have one live person in a battleship who is running protection for the mining ops, that will come and try to pop you, but from my experience, the protection usually cant do squat as hes also in a noob corp, and the corp-wide flagging rules dont apply there.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Master Han
Originally by: Tkdzzix Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!!
How do I tell if they are macro mining then?
Depends on what you claim is a macro-miner. By definition it is someone that uses a control software to physically manipulate the mining process instead of doing it my hand. MOST (99%+) of what players call macro-miners are actually someone sitting at a bank of 10-20 computers controlling the process themselves. They even respond when you talk to them in local and get visibly ****ed when you flip their can or bump them away from it just like any other player.
Basically you can't tell nor should you try. Since CCP hasn't declared someone with multiple machines online at a time against the rules, technically (in the context of EvE) they are not doing anything wrong. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
LowSec != NoSec
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space.
Uhh just so you know the "time in corp" gives zero indication of how old a character is. I started EvE a long time ago and kept retrying it several times and I've always thought it sucked up until RMR or so. Even after RMR I quit a couple times and am finally getting serious now that my skills don't completely suck (I hate being a newb).
Thus I am listed as being nearly 3+ years old in an NPC corp and yes I have mined in high security for money. I am poor due to always having to buy skill books and stuff like implants. I'm finally thinking of looking for a corp and I've about 6 mil skill points.
My point is don't assume you know anything about that player who's been in an NPC corp for a long time. You've no idea what the circumstances are and no clue how long their account was even activated. Considering how horrible this game was at release and how much better it is now I can't believe I'm the only person in the same situation.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space.
That make me dubting you are sincere. Seen ten of times, always the same phrase. So are you one of the usual "nerf NPC corporation crowd" using a new name?
If you are sincere: there are tons of reasons to be in a NPC corporation for old characters, including leaving or getting cast off from a PC corporation, little time to play, ecc.
And stripminers used by a 2 years old player character in a PC corporation don't have less effect on a belt than if he isn in a NPC corporation.
Or your supposed "new" industrial character want to war declare a corporation with 2 years old characters?
Oh, yes, you want to hire mercs to destoy the mining scum (BTW: to do what? as miners are scum by your words). An idea of the price? I havent' it but I dubt even the more feeble will shot a iron small for less than 50 millions/day.
Next time shot a little lower, maybe you will not overshot by a mile.
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Jonaaka Kaliin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:22:00 -
[13]
I'm sick and tired of 2 month old noob-Corp Raven pilots shooting NPC's in my are.
Difference is I kill them. You should look into that aspect of the game.
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Mayoz Miner
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 -
[14]
Why are people so against this I don't know, the reason CCP does not nerf them is beacuse it add diversity to the game (cater for the uber carebear OMG what a crime !)
If someone wants to stay in a NPC corp for there EVE life well let them, it is they who are going to miss out not you. Let they play there game, they are not untochable as you seem to think, with suicide ganking and whatever else the high sec pirates can come up with.
TBH these are just my views I have only been playing eve about 3 months and I am in what i like to call 'phase 1' of my EVE time, I have a plan .
In a month or two I will 'graduate' and join a good corp where I will make myself useful, but to them people that stay in NPC corps well .... they will miss out on some of the better parts of eve i'm sure.
P.S. I cant believe you cant find any roids to mine in 1.0 - 0.5 ive been mining in belts where nobody ever goes, I think you need to fly about a bit, as for the BOT ...well im sure all 2 yr old chars in NPC corp are not BOTS.
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Master Han
Order of Endruring Marshalls
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 -
[15]
I am mining in a Burst at the moment and dont really have the room for alot of ore. So when I warp back to the roid I was mining and find it gone w/ a Covetor filling up a can, makes me as a new player kinda mad. Why not limit what ships can be used in the beginner area?
I never claimed I would declare a war. First off if it is expensive as you say, it would take a lot of time to save that much ISK. And secondly I dont think my buddy would approve of it.
Why would it cost so much for a Merc corp btw? I think 50M sounds a bit steep. I should think they are making money from destroying the people they are fighting by getting modules and salvage from the destroyed ships.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:48:00 -
[16]
Because merc corps charge alot, thats about the long and the short of it.
If you are having trouble mining in your current system, find another, there are hundreds of high sec systems that you can choose from, open your map, set it to color by pilots docked and in space, and find one that doesnt have many pilots, go there and mine in peace. Empire is not sole property of newbs, you should be happy enough that you get the protection from aggression that concord serves. -=^=-
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.18 00:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Master Han I am mining in a Burst at the moment and dont really have the room for alot of ore. So when I warp back to the roid I was mining and find it gone w/ a Covetor filling up a can, makes me as a new player kinda mad. Why not limit what ships can be used in the beginner area?
I never claimed I would declare a war. First off if it is expensive as you say, it would take a lot of time to save that much ISK. And secondly I dont think my buddy would approve of it.
Why would it cost so much for a Merc corp btw? I think 50M sounds a bit steep. I should think they are making money from destroying the people they are fighting by getting modules and salvage from the destroyed ships.
Symple: thery have a price to pay to declare war, they risk losing ships (usually 2 years old characters have some decent skills) and a player with some month of experience can make 5-10 million every play hour easily.
So if they must work for you they want similar money.
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Romeda
Minmatar Trojan industries
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Posted - 2007.01.18 00:21:00 -
[18]
Sigh... Not another post on this, IBTL!
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Actanna Levh
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Master Han I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps
I do not agree with forcing players in particular directions, players (customers) will be happier if they can choose. There are a number of different motivations for being in NPC corps some are fair enough but many are to use game mechanics for some advantage.
Being a long time Republic Military School member it is my considered opinion that an increase in tax after a certain period would not be unreasonable. 20% however sounds too high. There appear to be numerous sin committing alts (spies, thieves, pirates and freighter pilots) within newb corps that this would not really affect though. If those were all that were left, what values then would they be instilling in the next generation of pilots ?
I am glad you recognised your own rant in the topic Master Han. If the ô2+ year oldö happened to be part of say Band of Brothers you would be still be in exactly the same situation you are in now, out competed for a scarce resource with little you can do about it.
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Arian Snow
The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:24:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arian Snow on 18/01/2007 01:21:42 note to OP: wow you are a sad bitter individual!
I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all! |
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Actanna Levh
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Romeda Sigh... Not another post on this, IBTL!
Well it took me at least week to think about the issue from last post, so here was a good a place as any to comment.
Maybe we can discuss it all again next week when a "new" thread comes. Ah forums.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.18 07:48:00 -
[22]
If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.01.18 08:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes.
what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden?
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes.
what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden?
Uh...not exactly.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Baron Oxes
Hypermagic Mountain
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:30:00 -
[25]
There are some benefits to new players from having 'access' to older NPC corp players - they get to ask them all those annoying questions we all have when we first start, they get to go mining and ratting together and learn the ropes, some of the older players will even donate cash, ships and equipment to new players to help them on their way.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2007.01.18 11:06:00 -
[26]
Any major nerf to NPC corporations would negatively impact the consumer base of the game. It would have a negative impact on the game in the future.
As such efforts to nerf things are usually bad. Instead rather than imposing penalties on NPC corps you should look at providing more positives to player run corps so that they are more attractive.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.18 11:44:00 -
[27]
I'm 7 months into the game, while I have "good" supplementary skills (electronics, engineering, mechanic, industry, learning), I'm no where near good enough for doing the corp thing yet.
It should be 190ish more days before I'm ready.
You do know there are other systems / regions where there are tons of belts, 1-2 stations, and no one ever goes there, right? maybe get out of Pator? or Rens?
just a thought.
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum.
I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game.
Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas.
maybe some of us cba with all the politics surrounding player corps maybe some of us just like to mission run, maybe some of us just want to play because its fun to do that after another long cr@p day at work? Forcing people to do something that they dont want to do is just a little bit facist dont you think?
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:43:00 -
[29]
IMO npc corp should have a tax.
Player corps have a tax, why not npc corp's?
The average player corp has 10 percent tax...make npc corp have %15 tax just to give %5 incentive to joining player corp. Or join your own corp and have %0 tax.
If someone wardecs you just drop out into a npc corp and pay your %15 for protection. When they stop declaring go back to your corp.
There really is no downside. Paying %15 for concord protection is a bargain, its like having Mercenary Coalition at your beck and call 24 hours a day.
In return I think maybe concord protection should be beefed up, maybe give them 1 second faster reaction time to respond to gank attempts.
I think Eve should have a place for highsec players.
Every universe has civilians. That's what highsec players are, the civilian population of Eve. Don't be hatin.
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.01.18 13:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum.
I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game.
Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas.
Well for a slight trade off, you can move down in security. 0.6 is ideal, 0.5 is better. But then again your going to have to have some combat skills. If you stay in 0.8+ then your going to find no belts. AFK minning for the win!!
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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