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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:49:00 -
[1]
The tech 2 rigs seem to average a 50% improvement over the tech 1 rigs.
But they also average a 50% increase in calibration cost.
Since calibration cost, not rig slots, appears to be the limiting factor for most rigs, is there any point to having a tech 2 rig?
I can see that it lets you have a LITTLE more flexibility, but nothing that seems to justify the inordinate difficulty in putting T2 rigs together.
T2 rigs should have the same calibration cost as their T1 counterparts. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:51:00 -
[2]
2 t2 rigs 1 t1 rig?
150 each t2 75 for t1 10% betterness 400 calibration points well spent. ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 18/01/2007 01:50:09 i have never seen a t2 rig componant drop from anything less than a "special" rat spawn, eg shadow serp or domination angel
unless there is some other supply that i dotn know about its going to be a very long time b4 anybody can even make a t2 rig anyway
Edit: i did salvage a t2 part from a hac a few days back but that was 1 single part
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Lowanaera
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.01.18 01:55:00 -
[4]
I can only use 2x T2 and 1x T1 instead of 3x T1 so therefore T2 rigs are pointless? What kind of absurd logic is that? You're effectively using 4 T1 rigs in 3 slots.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.18 02:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lowanaera I can only use 2x T2 and 1x T1 instead of 3x T1 so therefore T2 rigs are pointless? What kind of absurd logic is that? You're effectively using 4 T1 rigs in 3 slots.
Math Majors Go figure
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -ISD Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Viktoria Maher
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Posted - 2007.01.18 02:11:00 -
[6]
T2 ships have less calibration than equivalent T1 ships. Presumably, one who has T2 rigs will be putting them in T2 ships, so the OP makes sense.
Just not for us poor buggers still using T1 ships. ;)
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.01.18 03:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lowanaera I can only use 2x T2 and 1x T1 instead of 3x T1 so therefore T2 rigs are pointless? What kind of absurd logic is that? You're effectively using 4 T1 rigs in 3 slots.
You're missing the whole point. The point is, since the T2 rigs use 50% MORE CALIBRATION POINTS, you can:
Use 3x T1
*OR*
Use 2x T2
2xT2 + 1x T1 is NOT AN OPTION for most cases where it matters.
Example:
Raven. 400 calibration points, 3 rig slots.
If I use two T1 Warhead califraction rigs, I two 10% bonuses to missile damage, and use 400 calibration points. If I use a T2 rig, I get ONE 15% bonus, urn 300 calibration points, and now only have 100 calibration points left.
Sure, three 75 calibration point T2 rigs is better than 3 50-calibration point T1 rigs of the same type, but who is going to use three T1 50 cal rigs in the first place?
Calibration points are basically the power grid/CPU of rigs. If you've maxed out your grid/cpu, having a T2 mod that gets you 50% more benefit for 50% more grid/CPU is WORTHLESS. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Eralus
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Posted - 2007.01.18 03:20:00 -
[8]
Hell, there are some T2 rigs that have a 50% increase in calibration cost, but only provide a 25% increase benefits. How useless is that?
See, the thing you have to understand is, unlike the rest of ship components, where the number of SLOTS is usually the limiting factor to how much you can fit on your ship, with Rigs, it's usually the calibration that's limiting. You'll run out of calibration before you run out of slots. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Rab
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Posted - 2007.01.18 03:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Eralus Hell, there are some T2 rigs that have a 50% increase in calibration cost, but only provide a 25% increase benefits. How useless is that?
See, the thing you have to understand is, unlike the rest of ship components, where the number of SLOTS is usually the limiting factor to how much you can fit on your ship, with Rigs, it's usually the calibration that's limiting. You'll run out of calibration before you run out of slots.
Not for ships I and friends use, mostly its cap control circuits and nano pumps, some armor resists. weapon rigs not so popular with stacking penalties.
Hac, command ship,200 calibration spare, 2 rigs fitted. Faction Battleships 50 calibration spare, 3 rigs fitted.
These armor tanked setups would benefit from one or more T2 rigs, so would many variations. very few people I know use 150 and 200 calibration rigs much, maybe its so many of them being amarr and gallente ship pilots?
Looking at the calibration settings it seems very deliberate that faction ships get less calibration, T2 ships get fewer slots because of the need to limit the boosts these ships can field.
Im sure theres also a few capital ships that would work in a T2 rig or two as well, 400 calibration on a carrier and 3 slots seems ideal for a T2 rig and a couple of T1s.
- In an infinite universe, everything is definite. - |
RedLion
Caldari evenova
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Posted - 2007.01.18 03:57:00 -
[10]
Corvus on the other hand has 200 calibration points :P
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Trem Sinval
Sinval Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.18 04:00:00 -
[11]
Since they're so useless, anyone is free to forward me their t2 rigs they can't or won't use.
- Trem |
Lowanaera
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.01.18 08:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Eralus
2xT2 + 1x T1 is NOT AN OPTION for most cases where it matters.
Maybe you're just using the wrong ones? Or more specifically, trying to use ones with above-average benefit that therefore require more calibration. A quick overview of the complete rig list shows that the vast majority of T1 rigs are 100 or less.
You're trying to generalize a limitation that exists for certain rigs BECAUSE they are more powerful than normal into being a balance issue for all rigs, which it is clearly not. Such limitations exist for game balance reasons, it's not a bug or oversight, you're not intended to be able to stack huge damage increases on.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.01.18 11:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Lowanaera I can only use 2x T2 and 1x T1 instead of 3x T1 so therefore T2 rigs are pointless? What kind of absurd logic is that? You're effectively using 4 T1 rigs in 3 slots.
You're missing the whole point. The point is, since the T2 rigs use 50% MORE CALIBRATION POINTS, you can:
Use 3x T1
*OR*
Use 2x T2
T2 ships generally have the same calibration but only two slots. There's your answer.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Aramendel on 18/01/2007 12:31:33 Also, there are several t2 rigs which have less than 200 calibration points. I would be happy to have 3 t2 purger rigs for my mission drake. And I would then still have 175 calbiration points left.
It would also be a very viaable option to use 2 t2 and 1 t1 vent rigs on a nanophoon/domi.
Just because the rigs you want to fit have too much of a calibration cost to fit multiple it does not mean it's a general issue.
Also, the devs stated that they wanted to make rigs more of a defensive nature. Makes only sense that the weapon rigs are expensive. And, as a sidenote, using +damage rigs is a waste of a rig slot either way. Because they share stacking penalities with damage mods (as all rigs do which effect something which gets a stacking penality). So with 2 BCUs fitted your 10% damage rig gives you only a 5.7% dps boost. The 2nd only a 2.8% dps boost. You will be better of by far by fitting 2 cap recharge rigs, removing 1 PDU and fitting a 3rd BCU instead than by fitting 2 damage rigs. Both in tankability and dps.
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Ebodhisatva
Gallente hunter killers
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Posted - 2007.01.18 13:05:00 -
[15]
2 x t2 rigs for on a t2 boat? ------------------- Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, you will not be counting days, or months, or years but milleniums in |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.01.18 13:29:00 -
[16]
bah... i just found out that speed rigs have a stacking penalty aswell =( 692m/s->731m/s for the third +10% rig...
so, basically i find two of a kind ok and the third slot for something (completely) different - if stacking is applied everywhere down there(anyon tried the recharge rigs yet?). and there's enough t2 rigs to fill the tiny left-over gap
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2007.01.18 13:40:00 -
[17]
At the t2 rigs I have looked at I have not seen the point. They take more calibration with little bonuse. and with the calibation cost that they have I would not be able to fit a decent rig with the remaining calibration. So I get more from 2 t1 rigs than I could get with 1 t2 rig and some other crap t1 rig. With ships currnet calibrations it makes many t2 rigs usless.
Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!!
Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.18 16:42:00 -
[18]
You really need to look at rigs from the point of view that they are best used to minimize the weaknesses of your favorite set up, not enhance your set ups main strength.
If you gank set up does uber damage but you really have to watch your cap use... look into cap rigs. Likewise, if that set up keeps getting nailed because it has zero EM resistance, cue the resistance rigs. Perhaps you have a great tank, but no room for ROF or damage mods... etc.
The stacking penalties and more limited nature of the bonuses they give dictate this.
Yes, you have to think when using T2 rigs. It's a bit of a jigsaw puzzle to try and get the best bang for your buck (so to speak).
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Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light
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Posted - 2007.01.18 17:07:00 -
[19]
Iterons have 3 rig slots and 400 calibration.
Cargohold Optimization I = 100 calibration Cargohold Optimization II = 150 calibration
3x t1 = 300 calibration, 100 free, 32.25% total capacity increase 2x t2 + 1x t1 = 400 calibration, none free, 65.6% total capacity increase
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.01.18 17:25:00 -
[20]
Wow, T2 items have a somewhat harsh penalty and a 50% better performance. Hmm. I wonder where we've seen that before... ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
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Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 18/01/2007 01:50:09 i have never seen a t2 rig componant drop from anything less than a "special" rat spawn, eg shadow serp or domination angel
unless there is some other supply that i dotn know about its going to be a very long time b4 anybody can even make a t2 rig anyway
Edit: i did salvage a t2 part from a hac a few days back but that was 1 single part
Here's something most carebears (like me) don't want found out. The best place to get tech2 rig components is from player ships, especially tech 2 player ships.
good game |
Wibiq
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Wibiq on 18/01/2007 23:52:08 Edited by: Wibiq on 18/01/2007 23:51:37 It also makes logical sense that the T2 and faction ships would have lower calibration than T1 ships because they are far more precision technology. Remember, you are "jury-rigging". The more advanced ships should be less able to be modified.
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:51:00 -
[23]
is it really necessary to cram everything you can onto your ship?
Gluttony people - it's a deadly sin.
+++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stitcher is it really necessary to cram everything you can onto your ship?
Gluttony people - it's a deadly sin.
Jepp, always leave at least 3 of your med slots empty. Your ship agility will thank you for it!
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Solid Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:21:00 -
[25]
It's called *gasp* balancing.
Thanks Lowanaera for stating what should've been obvious, but apparently it isn't.
________________________ - Posting on forums can be more arduous than mowing your lawn with nail scissors - |
Tareen Kashaar
eXin Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:40:00 -
[26]
Aren't you guys forgetting that T2 ships only have 2 rig slots? --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.19 19:46:00 -
[27]
I just wish I could strap a pair of t2 gravity rigs to my covops --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.01.19 20:27:00 -
[28]
The way I like to think of it is that the T2 ships have already been jury rigged on their way to becoming T2.
If they actually hashed out that idea, then we could invent T2 rigs....that convert ships into their T2 versions. Much cooler then getting some crappy BPC....have the T2 build components pop us out a rig we can slap onto the T1 ship....A different rig for each ship, ie, T2 zealot rig would only go onto a omen...,.
I dont know, I think it would make it a while lost more interesting, and tie in the mechanics alot better.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.19 21:14:00 -
[29]
law of dimihsing returns heres a tip train up youre calibration reduction skills that should help
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.19 22:27:00 -
[30]
Eralas, get me a BPC for the T2 shield rigs, and I'll tell you the purpose of T2 rigs in return.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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