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johanladon
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:02:00 -
[1]
Will the level 5 agent missions be available soon or ever ??
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:03:00 -
[2]
I dont know, but i hope they make it absolutely unsolo-able.
Originally by: Deja Thoris The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
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Tar Ecthelion
Kryomek Industries The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:04:00 -
[3]
If they do, I hope its immpossible for less than say five people to complete them. Please CCP, make them corp missions and not individual ones. .....
"When you kill a man it costs nothing to be polite" Winston Churchill
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:06:00 -
[4]
that would be cool. i'd have to get myself some friends, though :-(
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Sahnos
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:06:00 -
[5]
Yeah when and if lvl5s get introduced they have to be done using groups :D
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Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:10:00 -
[6]
Heh. Level4's were originally supposed to be unsoloable when they first appeared - that quickly changed. I forget exactly why and how.
Same might happen with lvl5's
Hope not.
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DaveW
Caldari South Park Development
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:17:00 -
[7]
Yes, the time has come for Level V's in one form or another. ---------------------------------------------------
"If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen." |
Kaptein Trefot
Caldari Calista Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 18/01/2007 22:36:26
Originally by: Menkaure Heh. Level4's were originally supposed to be unsoloable when they first appeared - that quickly changed. I forget exactly why and how.
Same might happen with lvl5's
Hope not.
Simply make it so that you cant accept it or complete it without being in a gang of four or more. Of course it should also be too difficult and time-consuming to solo it.
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Cerwyn Taraman
Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:40:00 -
[9]
Why not allow Level 5's to be where we are ALLOWED to use the Carrier as a WTFMISSIONPWNMOBILE! :-)
They could be capital missions involving more fights vs. other capital ship NPCs, or versus POS-type structures in the mission that have good defenses on the structure itself. Maybe with sub-system targeting on the super "station" type NPC structures we could take out. I think that would be really enjoyable and would also prevent soloing in anything less than a capital ship assuming it was balanced correctly.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka I dont know, but i hope they make it absolutely unsolo-able.
A seigemode dread in every mission!
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:06:00 -
[11]
Level 5s just need to be something different, perhaps factional warfare related so that the RP community doesn't have abandon its corporations and alliances if they want to be able to fight for their Empire. Could also be something else, like a multiple-strike mission, where you simpyl have to have more than 1 person due to timeframes.
Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Why not allow Level 5's to be where we are ALLOWED to use the Carrier as a WTFMISSIONPWNMOBILE! :-)
Because...
/me points down.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kaptein Trefot Simply make it so that you cant accept it or complete it without being in a gang of four or more. Of course it should also be too difficult and time-consuming to solo it.
SWG used to have such a system (mission difficulty/reward scaled with your personal strength and the strength of your group). Problem was that player-owned weapons and armor were so strong that it was easy to solo almost any mission. The term "solo-group" was invented because people would form gangs for the sole purpose of getting better missions, but then completing them on their own.
The underlieing problem was that players were too powerful. If you fix underlieing balance issues, there shouldn't be a need for artificial restrictions on mission risk/reward.
The one caveat is that Eve tends to balancing things for PvP, not PvE. For instance, Cap ships have plenty of ligitement uses in PvP, but are often too powerful for PvE complexes. So their banned by many acceleration gates to prevent complexes from being soloed.
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Kaptein Trefot
Caldari Calista Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 18/01/2007 23:46:07 Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 18/01/2007 23:45:25
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Kaptein Trefot Simply make it so that you cant accept it or complete it without being in a gang of four or more. Of course it should also be too difficult and time-consuming to solo it.
SWG used to have such a system (mission difficulty/reward scaled with your personal strength and the strength of your group). Problem was that player-owned weapons and armor were so strong that it was easy to solo almost any mission. The term "solo-group" was invented because people would form gangs for the sole purpose of getting better missions, but then completing them on their own.
The underlieing problem was that players were too powerful. If you fix underlieing balance issues, there shouldn't be a need for artificial restrictions on mission risk/reward.
The one caveat is that Eve tends to balancing things for PvP, not PvE. For instance, Cap ships have plenty of ligitement uses in PvP, but are often too powerful for PvE complexes. So their banned by many acceleration gates to prevent complexes from being soloed.
In an ideal world this could be solved by balancing things out but I just cant see that ever happen. A few simple restrictions will however. A gang of four or more to accept/complete a mission and no one can accept another mission while being part of another. All rewards, lp and bounty would be shared between the party. The downside is of course that this would be heaven for any multiple alt missionrunner. For that reason alone I`m inclined to call this a bad idea.
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:17:00 -
[14]
There are two sides to this.
People wanting more from PvE and people wanting people who want more from PvE for it not to 'given away' to them.
Risk v Reward. It's what the EVE universe is built on. In whatever guise 'lvl5' agents appear in, one thing is for certain û there is no way they should be in high-sec, and certainly the highest quality agents should be in 'no-sec'. There. I've said it û my hat is now in the ring, but I'm not going to discuss the rights of PvE'ers throughout EVE or the potential economic implications that lvl5 agents would bring. What I want to do is outline an opportunity the content development team has, should it ever fall to their desks to visit this topic sometime...
ôWe want more people in low-secö...öWe want better contentö...öWe want more targets to shootö...öWe want more variety in our missions...ö etc...
Anyone care to do a forum search on any of these topics? Me neither. I wouldn't care to crash the forum search engine and cause Jita to implode, or something...but the general consensus is that level4 missions make people in high sec 'sticky' to that system/region/constellation. Yes there are benefits, to all types of players. Traders get predictable returns, agent runners get ISK/LP/Agent Offers and the economy on the whole has a general flow û sounds good and it is, but we would all be lying if we said it constitutes the essence of EVE, expect maybe the bit about a player driven economy.
For the next level of agents, we need another direction.
Typical scenario for level4 agent is this: Dock at agent's station, talk to agent, get mission, undock, complete assigned task, dock again at agent's station, talk to agent, collect reward. Then, click the back button and do it again, and again, and again until enough reward has been given for the player to deem enough for them to complete non-PvE tasks of their own (whatever that may be).
I like the concept of storyline agents, but not necessarily the mission / task they get you to do, but it's so close to having mass enjoyment you can almost taste it. It's great. A high-ranking officer within X faction contacts you for an important mission. You've earned it, you've proved yourself worthy, ôwe're at a loss and need your help!ö. ôAwesomeö, you think. ôthis is it, the big one, I'm gonna...oh!ö You read the mission objective and find it amounts to not much more than taking the agents laundry to the cleaners and getting out the QuafT stains. At least, that's what he said they were...
Level 5 agents should use a similar mechanism. No home base though, no 'give me a mission' button, like a rat pushing the feeder button in a lab. You get a mail from an officer within a faction and he gives you the mission brief for you to follow through with. I'm not going to describe what that mission should be, but yeah, it should be big and tough. It should be in low sec / no sec and the reward should be significant û but random.
Random encounters, random location, random risk. |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: AlleyKat on 19/01/2007 00:16:34 ...continued
This will remove the 'hub' mentality of EVE's agent-running populace û they will go where the rewards are and as I've said, they are too dependent on a select few systems. If level5 agents have no base to speak with them at, then low-sec pirates would not have to hug the agent hubs in low sec to find these new level5 agent runners, because the agents could send them anywhere in their sphere of influence for the faction they work for. For pirates, this would increase the unpredictability of finding agent runners, as they could be anywhere, but it would increase the probability of potential targets in systems. Additionally, if level5 agents cannot be solo-able (please) then pirates once more have more targets to find.
Back to the reward û it's gotta be significant, it's gotta make agent runners drool all over the keyboard. Risk versus reward. High-sec level4 versus low sec / no sec level5. Make it appear easy at first, send them to 0.4 systems, then 0.3, 0.2, 0.1, but make the reward big.
ôWhy spend any time on agent runners? This is a PvP game!ö
Doing this would encourage PvP, because of the conscious awareness that PvP is a potential situation in low-sec / no-sec, and because (I hope) level5 agents will not be solo-able, the agent runners will seek safety in numbers.
For every mission that an agent runner completes in low-sec / no-sec for a level5 agent should equate to 10 level4 missions they didn't complete in high-sec. Not necessarily in reward, but in time NOT spent in high-sec, get the picture?
I think this mechanism could work and should appease all. Yes, you are still going to have people running level4's in high-sec 23/7, but those that take on the level5 missions should be given content that level4's cannot give them, to slowly erode the idea in their minds about what lowûsec / no-sec has to offer. And once the word gets out, it spreads.
ôHah!, low-sec is already worth moving to! And 0.0 is where all the best stuff is. If they wanted to come to low-sec, they would've done alreadyö.
Good point, and hard to prove otherwise. One thing is for sure û level5 migration into low-sec would be a slow mutiny, but it would happen.
Maybe I've got it all wrong and agent runners just want to fly about in cool ships, or maybe they will band together û hit low-sec and finally 'take control of their destiny'.
Recruiting! |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:19:00 -
[16]
Would be fun if we could use our capital ships to run level 5 agent missions and that would be the baseline for running them. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: AlleyKat Maybe I've got it all wrong and agent runners just want to fly about in cool ships, or maybe they will band together û hit low-sec and finally 'take control of their destiny'.
Nice post, but you've got it wrong indeed.
Agent runners by and large are the soloers of Eve. The people with no time or inclination to enter itno complicated intereactive social situations to get more stuff. They simply log on and grind whatever is the best thing to grind to get more stuff without all the other things you just mentioned.
And then there's the ones that do the above plus also refuse in any way to ever open themselves up to loss by hand of other players.
Of course, there's also the 'good' ones. But I don't think htat'll be a significant part, since most of those would have quit missions by now anyway.
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
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Kerushi
Caldari BIG
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:25:00 -
[18]
aslong rats act like pos guns (change target every * amount of time), it will be a boost to difficulty lvl as every one will need some sort of tank
capital ships as a requirement would be nice idd, but siege usage should be removed in the deadspace
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:27:00 -
[19]
It should be noted that the Lvl 5 agents that you used to be able to see but not touch have all been removed. ----------------------------------------------------
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:28:00 -
[20]
no capitals ffs, talk about a grind
group content, non-linear and non-static content, and most certainly no more semi-inhstanced deadspace with far too little risk.
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rod Blaine no capitals ffs, talk about a grind
group content, non-linear and non-static content, and most certainly no more semi-inhstanced deadspace with far too little risk.
But why we agent runners are not allowed to fly capital ships in high end missions? We also pay the same subscription fees. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:43:00 -
[22]
So true Rod, so true - but they can be weaned off eventually. It's the carrot and stick approach. Agnet runners are used to being told what to do by their agents, give them enough orders and I think after a while - they might follow them. The hook will be in the way the mission brief is written, the line and sinker would be the reward. The content team will need exceptional brain storming sessions with the story department for it to work to the level it needs to.
Recruiting! |
nutbar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.19 02:03:00 -
[23]
If they do introduce lvl5 missions, you'd need a nice gang of about 10 people, and you'd want to block off about 8-24hours straight to complete the mission. Oh, then you'd want another gang of perhaps 3-4 people on pure salvage duty, with maybe another 2 on loot hauling duty as well following behind you so that the stuff doesn't dissapear. Not to mention, some way to prevent all aggro from hitting one person!
And to the 2nd poster or whomever who said only make them available to corps - stop being such a greedmonster. Player corps aren't the only people out there - and I bet you'd have no actual intention of running any lvl5's, you'd just set your corp tax rate to 10%+ and roll in your well earned isk eh? :P
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.01.19 02:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka I dont know, but i hope they make it absolutely unsolo-able.
The problem with this line of thinking is the combination of insanely powerful builds for mission runners that are possible, and the insanely stupid NPC AI.
When you say "unsoloable" that just means "more people in logistics". And shoe horning people into having to fly pure support isn't fair, because it is a boring style of game play. Realistically, there will be some people that enjoy playing support (just part of human nature) but just increasing the dps means you assign more people as support.
I'd rather see smart enemy groups that split up to attack designated pilots. As in, you go into a mission with a fleet that has four three man squads in it, the four different spawns split up, with each one going after a squad leader of a different squad.
Or something similiar. Or, when they change the dps dynamic, you enter an area, and the npcs aggro with two or three ships on each player entering, so it is almost more like a dog fight, not a sad joke of primary focus fire tactics like in pvp fleets.
Basically, I'd just like to see the situation of a mission having five bad hombre npcs in it, so you can either go in alone and take em all, or take four friends and have five one on one fights going on simultaneously.
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Lord Artemis
Filthy Wyrm
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Posted - 2007.01.19 03:26:00 -
[25]
The real trick to it's success will be dependent on their ability to make it unsoloable but survivable for the unfortunate first guy in taking all the aggro. _____________________________ Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC! |
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:01:00 -
[26]
Hopefully not anytime soon, I'm too busy with all the new things added recently.
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Jogun
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:00:00 -
[27]
/sarcasm
Patch Notes: Level V missions have been added. You will be required acquire item X in lvl IVs to gain access to Level Vs. Once X item is gain you will need a fleet of 40 ships to properly complete the mission. The mission will only drop 3 pieces of loot per room, we will call these pieces phat epic loots! let the dkp bid war begin!
/end sarcasm
sorry couldn't resist
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Hilabana
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:21:00 -
[28]
If they wish there is a way they can go up to lvl 10 missions ! Just add new mission types and make it so you need things like cloaks or probes but even so if it is a lvl 10 type mission they do not have to pay that much ISK . and they can make it so the base are not listed on the maps. plus the base can be hard to find. and even need a lot of skills to use the base may help.
there is many things they can do its just a matter of time and programing...
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Menkaure Heh. Level4's were originally supposed to be unsoloable when they first appeared - that quickly changed. I forget exactly why and how.
The how is pretty clear: Most lvl 4 missions are easier to do solo, because if you warp a second ship in it will aggro the whole stage or to be more precise every single NPC that is not already shooting at the first ship.
That is how EVE is encouraging teamplay.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:47:00 -
[30]
level 5 agents indireactly implemented - 0.0 exploration deadspace plexes are level 5 missions in disguise given their difficulty factor
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