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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
6343
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Posted - 2015.12.29 14:11:47 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Quant has conjured up some data magic added some grains of crunched numbers and voil+í! ready is the damage profile chart 2015.
This chart shows the accumulated damage in 2015 grouped by ship group and refined by weapon group.
A high resolution (vector) version of this 2015 chart is available here. As comparison check out the damage profiles 2014.
Let the analysis begin!
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
77
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Posted - 2015.12.29 14:22:04 -
[2] - Quote
I guess the obvious question is CCP happy that 4 out of the 5 most popular hull + weapon combinations are cruiser hulls? |
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1596
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Posted - 2015.12.29 14:54:48 -
[3] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:I guess the obvious question is CCP happy that 4 out of the 5 most popular hull + weapon combinations are cruiser hulls?
oh good grief. Well the drone damage is off because it should have been double, but the ishtar nerf kinda hit it a bit. I'd expect it to be more around 3 or so.
But you could drive off some of the cruiser dps by merely moving the T3's over to a battle-cruiser status (they are pretty much in total, except in name). It'll fit better with the T3 destroyer lines (t3's are midpoint lines between frigate, cruiser and battleships (aka destroyers and battlecruisers).
Just the normal stuff I've harped about for a while.
Yaay!!!!
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Agemnia Auhman
Auhman Project Heavy Industrial Division
2
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Posted - 2015.12.29 14:57:19 -
[4] - Quote
Are they happy? well yes, yes they are. otherwise maybe they would have nerfed ishtar and vexor to not be so out of place in the 'meta' or whatever it may or may not be called, but they haven't. Drone meta's becoming completely out of hand is okay because ......... errrr......... (CCP, i need help here, why is it okay?). Just return the OP drones to bay and allow other ships to assume the correct role not just be sidelined for ishtars.
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Marisol Aldurad
EVE University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:01:22 -
[5] - Quote
Its nice to see the dispersion smoothing out, even in a small way. It will be fun to track how the addition of all the new cruiser and destroyer hulls impact things - most likely a lot :) Plus with all the capital revisions coming this should be a very interesting data set to explore after another 6 months. To be fair though, we should probably restrict this to combat hulls for simplicity's sake if nothing else. Looking fwd. to being able to see the #s behind this as opposed to just the pretty picture - though it is pretty hehe |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1436
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:02:58 -
[6] - Quote
Drone cruisers still top of the heap. But since the adjustments were fairly recent, I'm not surprised. The damage profiles do seem a bit more spread out from the last time someone posted/showed an image like this.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1046
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:05:29 -
[7] - Quote
I'm not sure why everyone is saying drones are OP. I've been flying a Domi in PvE for years and a lot of other ships beat it in specific situations. The only benefit of the domi is that it does decent in most situations but it excels at none. At least in PvE anyway |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1046
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:07:57 -
[8] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Drone cruisers still top of the heap. But since the adjustments were fairly recent, I'm not surprised. The damage profiles do seem a bit more spread out from the last time someone posted/showed an image like this. It's drone damage on cruiser hulls and since nearly all cruisers can use drones to some degree or another things would be way out of balance if drones were not at the top of the list. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
1851
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:08:36 -
[9] - Quote
You really need another one but after the drone related rebalance.
Akrasjel Lanate
Member of Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Citizen of Solitude
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
120
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:09:49 -
[10] - Quote
The poor Retribution.
Look at the chart and try not to cry. |
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Danmal
Proioxis Assault Force Exodus.
31
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:31:18 -
[11] - Quote
I think this is wonderful work (though, rowsum() and colsum() are baller functions). Overall, I think it is fine that most of the action is in the cruisers, as these are goals within reach of newer players and affordable. However, I hope CCP uses this for balancing. Surely, some weapon systems/ship types are meant to do more damage than others, but it becomes fairly clear that drones and stealth bombers were OP, while BCs were UP. It also shows the sad state of affairs of AFs and Command Ships, and the huge imbalance in the T3Ds in favor of the Svipul and Confessor, which are both used for different purposes. |
Skyler Hawk
Boars on Parade The Tuskers Co.
67
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:32:14 -
[12] - Quote
This is cool, but is there any chance that we could get the underlying data? It's quite hard to compare usage patterns for less popular ship types by looking at the chart.
e: also, lol, drone cruisers |
Cristl
277
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:36:41 -
[13] - Quote
I'm gonna have to say that the Svipul clearly takes "best newcomer" award here. That single ship is out-damaging all other Minnie frigs, destroyers and HACs combined?! |
Hal Morsh
Hmmzor.
471
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:48:48 -
[14] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:I guess the obvious question is CCP happy that 4 out of the 5 most popular hull + weapon combinations are cruiser hulls?
Even real world navies on the seas aren't using battleships anymore. It's all gun and armor, speed is relevant.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Arla Sarain
722
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Posted - 2015.12.29 16:26:56 -
[15] - Quote
Projectile weapons
T3Ds Dreadnaught
Considering that Arties are arguably more prolific that ACs, you can't really convince someone ACs are good and keep a straight face. It's the hulls. Sabres and Svipuls overbloat the value of ACs by being dumb ships in their own light.
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xXxLonestarxXx
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
0
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Posted - 2015.12.29 16:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
my only question is
Where is the smart bomb stat?
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Umino Iruka
Ultramar Independent Contracting
6
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Posted - 2015.12.29 16:54:53 -
[17] - Quote
And so far, no one is really bothered that the laser damage type is by far the dimmest column in the chart?
The "elegant" weapon system that can swap crystal type at a moment's notice and can project damage very well is the one that is used the least....
It's a simple fix:
50% energy turret capacitor usage reduction for all amarr laser boats as a role bonus and replace any existing cap usage reduction bonuses with a proper ship bonus. (laser boats with a marauder style setup of half the usual turret count and 100% damage bonus obviously have that already implemented, even though both sansha and blood raider ship lines need some more fitting and capacitor related love)
The price we currently pay for using lasers is too high for laser boats to be interesting enough to players - like the inability to swap damage type and the insane cap usage lasers have is not enough, but we also have extremely mediocre laser hulls with that stupid energy turret capacitor usage reduction bonus that is just stealing the spot for a proper ship bonus....
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Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:25:40 -
[18] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:And so far, no one is really bothered that the laser damage type is by far the dimmest column in the chart?
The "elegant" weapon system that can swap crystal type at a moment's notice and can project damage very well is the one that is used the least....
It's a simple fix:
50% energy turret capacitor usage reduction for all amarr laser boats as a role bonus and replace any existing cap usage reduction bonuses with a proper ship bonus. (laser boats with a marauder style setup of half the usual turret count and 100% damage bonus obviously have that already implemented, even though both sansha and blood raider ship lines need some more fitting and capacitor related love)
The price we currently pay for using lasers is too high for laser boats to be interesting enough to players - like the inability to swap damage type and the insane cap usage lasers have is not enough, but we also have extremely mediocre laser hulls with that stupid energy turret capacitor usage reduction bonus that is just stealing the spot for a proper ship bonus....
I was thinking along similar lines, this chart shows that lasers need some love. I think they should reduce the cap use on all lasers instead of having it bonused on the hulls. Then change that bonus to damage or application to make it worth choosing the hull. Also, I think medium and large lasers should get a small damage buff or perhaps scale M/L long ranged T1/Faction ammo to have more damage. Right now so many other platforms are more attractive for PvP.
I trained into a Zealot thinking it would be fun to play but the average dps and lack of a utility high really limit it. You can get pretty good short range damage but with cap pressure and only 3 mids it is highly vulnerable to neuting. |
Iblis Shaytan
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:26:12 -
[19] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:The poor Retribution.
Look at the chart and try not to cry. Open EFT, try to fit one. Cry a lot.
Agreed. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
124
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:31:13 -
[20] - Quote
I have always wondered why the reliance on drones for just about every ship to take out small stuff when a second fitting line (for small weapons only) would accomplish the job without the extra server side load drones produce. |
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Terra Chrall
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:36:36 -
[21] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Soldarius wrote:Drone cruisers still top of the heap. But since the adjustments were fairly recent, I'm not surprised. The damage profiles do seem a bit more spread out from the last time someone posted/showed an image like this. It's drone damage on cruiser hulls and since nearly all cruisers can use drones to some degree or another things would be way out of balance if drones were not at the top of the list. Also, Ishtars got their final tweaks during 2015 and as such drone damage was likely higher at the beginning of the year. Gilas only lost a low slot recently and that will also bring the numbers down a little bit. So these numbers are not fully reflective of the current game balance.
On a side not BC tweaks this year should also start to have their numbers creep up, and of the changes made the drone ships had the smallest changes so they should not see a significant change next year. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
945
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:36:56 -
[22] - Quote
Any way to split out missiles to size fired? Rapid XXX are probably over-representing, but we can't tell from here. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
125
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Posted - 2015.12.29 17:46:20 -
[23] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Any way to split out missiles to size fired? Rapid XXX are probably over-representing, but we can't tell from here.
and lights are very good at applied damage whereas heavies are terrible, I'd like to see this too |
Capqu
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1190
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Posted - 2015.12.29 18:06:49 -
[24] - Quote
could you do the same but for just current & previous patch?
this graph still has crazy ishtar damage from earlier in the year, and svipul damage spread over the 6 months or whatever when it wasnt even in the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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Ghaustyl Kathix
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
65
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Posted - 2015.12.29 18:12:35 -
[25] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:I guess the obvious question is CCP happy that 4 out of the 5 most popular hull + weapon combinations are cruiser hulls? All things considered, I think cruisers should be the most popular overall. They're in general a very good balance between speed, power and cost. Even the T3s.
Regarding drones, the related rebalances happened later in the year, so the numbers are still a bit stilted from that. Not only that, but this shows the most popular, not the most powerful. Part of the reason drones are really popular is because it's an easy fleet concept. Get in a Vexor, VNI, Ishtar or Gila, drop drones, assist to FC, focus on flying your ship rather than applying damage. |
The Receptionist
Astra Zeneca
0
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Posted - 2015.12.29 18:51:47 -
[26] - Quote
OH NO, EVERY SHIP IS NOT EQUAL! WE MUST NERF SOMETHING. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
945
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Posted - 2015.12.29 19:57:33 -
[27] - Quote
The Receptionist wrote:OH NO, EVERY SHIP IS NOT EQUAL! WE MUST NERF SOMETHING.
Or we can ask things like why are the drake, drake navy and cyclone combined outdamaged by a simple hurricane & hurricane fleet?
I mean, god knows medium projectiles are dire....so what does that tell you about HML/HAM...? |
The Receptionist
Astra Zeneca
1
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Posted - 2015.12.29 20:00:29 -
[28] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The Receptionist wrote:OH NO, EVERY SHIP IS NOT EQUAL! WE MUST NERF SOMETHING. Or we can ask things like why are the drake, drake navy and cyclone combined outdamaged by a simple hurricane & hurricane fleet? I mean, god knows medium projectiles are dire....so what does that tell you about HML/HAM...?
you're right, nerf the cane. NERF ALL THE THINGS. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
945
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Posted - 2015.12.29 20:06:12 -
[29] - Quote
Nobody said nerf the cane, you ridiculous panic merchant. |
Pericles Sotken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.12.29 20:06:18 -
[30] - Quote
Still waiting for any tables of raw data from Quant. His graphs are all nice and pretty, but give me hard numbers to compare to.
And why is only PVP referenced? PVE seperately as well please. What is the purpose of the graphs? To cause further consolidation of fits or to show the disparity of the spread, giving evidence for further balancing requirements?
I would love to get my hands on all that raw data. Put it into summary tables, anonymise it and let me at it, please. And most tables are only useful if they come with a dictionary, define PVP damage. Its very easy to assume, that's why I ask for the specific calculations that compose that figure. |
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