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Xotcl Gaterau
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:21:37 -
[1] - Quote
In my short career I've been destroyed by another player only two times, both times by the same player and in the same system, Eggelend.
He must camp the gate into Eggelend.
I'm flying a T1 industrial.
I've read about Safe Spots, and mods designed to allow you try to escape being warp scrambled, but I'm wondering whether its even worthwhile trying to do anything about it in T1 industrial.
Advice?
Thanks. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1053
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:35:56 -
[2] - Quote
is it a low sec system? |
J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6143
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:36:33 -
[3] - Quote
If you mean Egghelende, that is low-sec. It is normal to encounter PvP there.
As for a T1 indy, the main rule is not to get into fights. They are not combat ships, so dont try combat with it.
No matter if you tank them, they will just postpone your ultimate demise.
If you get caught on a gate, the only option is to burn back and crash the gate and prey your tank holds long enough.
Use scouts for intel up ahead in case of high value hauling or risky routes.
Edit:
Zkb confirmed it was Egghelende, a low-sec system.
Maybe read up on game mechanics and the warning when you jump into lowsec.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
13371
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:38:21 -
[4] - Quote
Mwd cloak trick can get you past a gate camp but otherwise if you get caught in a t1 indi you're getting eaten.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6143
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:42:15 -
[5] - Quote
Also, looking at your Incursus loss:
A. One type of gun, not multiple type of guns. Fit for 1 tactic, not multiple.
B. One type of tank, pick shield or armor (which ever suits the ship) and stick to that. Dont dual tank
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1053
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Posted - 2015.12.30 14:43:50 -
[6] - Quote
Running industrials through low sec space is very dangerous. The blockade runners ( tech 2 industrials ) do make it much safer but they are very expensive and not fool proof. You can still loose blockade runners in low sec.
Probably the best bet is to do what you can and just figure the losses into your spreadsheet as a cost of doing business and price accordingly.
Worth noting is that Jump Freighters can jump directly to a station and get around get camps and with the aid of a Black Ops Battleship and ship that can fit a covert ops cloak can use the covert ops cyno bridge. So if you get friends or alts involved as well as some high skill point ships you can jump around it.
I still say the jumping is a lot of extra time and huge up front costs as well as increased risk in the form of large sums of isk value sitting in space as ships. You are probably better off just scouting and being careful and not worrying about an occasional loss. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9925
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Posted - 2015.12.30 15:30:47 -
[7] - Quote
You have to buy 500 PLEXes and put them in your T1 Industrial cargohold as you fly through Egghelende (or Rancer, for that matter)...the golden shininess will blind the pirates as their laser beams will effortlessly reflect back on them
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Fal Shepard
Tungsten Gear Industries
94
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Posted - 2015.12.30 16:00:03 -
[8] - Quote
Like Jpoll says, the best way to survive a fight, is to not get in one in the first place.
In my early days, I used to haul contract cargo all around New Eden, though I would never accept a contract that forced me to go through low or null sec. If you absolutely must, get someone to scout for you. I highly recommend using inertia stabilizers and overdrive injectors to align and warp faster. Using agility rigs would also help.
Tip: When you pick up a contract, contact the owner and let them know and sound professional. Mention where you picked it up from and where it is going. Once you finish, let them know. I have gotten many tips and bonuses for my rapid service and have gotten repeat customers for that and professionalism. Sometimes I even got paid double.
From the ashes of our defeat, we will be reborn. With these chains with which we are bound, we will become indivisible. To those who showed us no mercy, we will give no sympathy. For the flames that burn our cities, we will douse in injustice's blood
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Paranoid Loyd
7994
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Posted - 2015.12.30 16:38:10 -
[9] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: This.
Further you are using the wrong type of T1 for carrying the load you had. A Nereus would have been much better suited. It has a much larger tank in the event you do get caught and it has a much higher warp speed meaning you will both be able to get to your destination faster as well as be able to effectively run away from destroyers and above if they try to pursue you through multiple systems.
Something like this would have been optimal to carry your load: [Nereus, Low Sec] Damage Control II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II
Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Some might argue the istabs are bad as they allow people to lock you faster but under most circumstances you should be cloaked so that is irrelevant. They just give you a shorter align time when undocking in the event you don't have an insta undock setup in advance. You can get a higher EHP if you use hardeners instead of so many extenders but if you don't have it/them on by the alpha strike that extra EHP is irrelevant so I go with just extenders.
But really all you need is the MWD and T2 cloak to survive.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
708
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Posted - 2015.12.30 17:06:56 -
[10] - Quote
Refitting for minimum align time is one option. Fitting warp core stabilizers is another option.
Other options. Use a cov-ops ship fit for min align time. Use the blockade runner again fit for min align time. The deep space transports combination of tank and warp core stability make them a better option than the T1 haulers. If the cargo is small enough an interceptor fit for min align time can work as well.
In the end there is no way to avoid ship loses in low sec, they will happen no matter what you fly. Besides the in game map the DotLan web site is useful as well. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/
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Xotcl Gaterau
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.12.30 18:24:06 -
[11] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:If you mean Egghelende, that is low-sec. It is normal to encounter PvP there.
As for a T1 indy, the main rule is not to get into fights. They are not combat ships, so dont try combat with it.
No matter if you tank them, they will just postpone your ultimate demise.
If you get caught on a gate, the only option is to burn back and crash the gate and prey your tank holds long enough.
Use scouts for intel up ahead in case of high value hauling or risky routes.
Edit:
Zkb confirmed it was Egghelende, a low-sec system.
Maybe read up on game mechanics and the warning when you jump into lowsec.
No, I knew it was low sec.
I'm just wondering whether it makes any sense to try to fit out the ship to survive or whether it's forgone conclusion that I'm dead if attacked and so I shouldn't waste the ISK trying.
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Xotcl Gaterau
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.12.30 18:30:44 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks to everyone for the detailed suggestions. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
497
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Posted - 2015.12.30 18:40:34 -
[13] - Quote
It's not a foregone conclusion, but it is more difficult. I fly BRs through LS and null on a daily basis, but for the most part I avoided ls until I could fly a t2.
Sigils used to have the best align time of the indies so I'd fit mine with 2 WCS and istabs, prototype cloak and mwd. Use cloak/mwd trick if you run into a gate camp. No cargo expanders for LS indies. If you're moving product from LS to HS, you'll just have to make multiple trips and stage it somewhere close. Now the t1 indies are a lot closer in overall utility, so I can't really suggest to train for a given one. But, each race has two, and one will be the slow tough one, and the other will be more nimble and less cargo, so fly the nimble one if going into LS.
Also, before you even think of flying into LS with an indie, jump in a rookie ship if low on isk/sp and go to the destination station and make a insta-undock. If not low on isk/sp then an inty or covops are good for making insta undocks.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
13376
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Posted - 2015.12.30 19:17:15 -
[14] - Quote
Xotcl Gaterau wrote:
No, I knew it was low sec.
I'm just wondering whether it makes any sense to try to fit out the ship to survive or whether it's forgone conclusion that I'm dead if attacked and so I shouldn't waste the ISK trying.
Well good on you for trying anyway.
The take away thing here is getting caught = you exploding.
If they can't catch you they can't kill you
So fit for align time and learn the mwd cloak trick and it's certainly possible.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Delegate
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
146
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Posted - 2015.12.30 19:58:26 -
[15] - Quote
[Nereus, Nereus] Damage Control II Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure 400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Improved Cloaking Device II Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Giant Secure Container
This fit hauled a lot of value via low-sec, including Amamake or Jita via Rancer. At one occasion it forced its way through couple smartbombing battleships. As long as you warp gate-to-gate, T1 hauler with cloak+mwd and some buffer is very safe. There is no need for blockade runner. DST could be useful if you need more cargo space, but also in this case the way to travel safe is to mwd-cloak. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
767
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Posted - 2015.12.30 22:26:25 -
[16] - Quote
Learn the cloaky warp trick. Unless you are unlucky (e.g. you misclick or lose to an insta locker) you will not get caught in lowsec. I've seen everything from battleships to t1 haulers use it successfully.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
181
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Posted - 2015.12.31 06:31:06 -
[17] - Quote
To add on, I'm just going to mention.......BATTLE BADGERS! :DDD But seriously, Caldari indys can tank pretty heavily. And just GTFO of lowsec! :P
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
714
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Posted - 2015.12.31 16:06:52 -
[18] - Quote
Netan MalDoran wrote:And just GTFO of lowsec! :P That's downright un-neighborly of you. Besides he can go to low if he wants, CCP says so. If you do not want him there then remove him yourself that is what low sec is all about.
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Druuna Charante
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.12.31 16:33:36 -
[19] - Quote
In highsec, the max safe value in a tanked T1 transport is around 50 million ISK. The best defense is not being an economicaly worthy target. |
Paranoid Loyd
8014
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Posted - 2015.12.31 16:43:55 -
[20] - Quote
Druuna Charante wrote:In highsec, the max safe value in a tanked T1 transport is around 50 million ISK. The best defense is not being an economicaly worthy target. As someone who ganks T1s on a regular basis I strongly disagree with putting arbitrary numbers on the amount you should carry. If you know what you are doing you can easily carry billions in a T1, if there are better options you should use them but it can certainly be done with very little risk. On the flipside, organizations such as CODE will gank you empty if you give them the option. This is the main reason to not put arbitrary numbers on it.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Druuna Charante
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.12.31 17:45:23 -
[21] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Druuna Charante wrote:In highsec, the max safe value in a tanked T1 transport is around 50 million ISK. The best defense is not being an economicaly worthy target. As someone who ganks T1s on a regular basis and also moves quite a bit of loot around I strongly disagree with putting arbitrary numbers on the amount you should carry. If you know what you are doing you can easily carry billions in a T1, if there are better options you should use them but it can certainly be done with very little risk in a T1. On the flipside, some gankers will gank you empty if you give them the option. This is the main reason to not put arbitrary numbers on it.
I agree with you about arbitrary number but with these rules I have yet to be ganked. I know that someday it will happend tho.
Some people like to fly with maximum safety settings. |
Paranoid Loyd
8019
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Posted - 2015.12.31 18:48:15 -
[22] - Quote
Druuna Charante wrote:Some people like to fly with maximum safety settings. To each his own, but you are unnecessarily pigeonholing yourself.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6146
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Posted - 2015.12.31 19:00:18 -
[23] - Quote
Okay, I might have a good example on how NOT to do it
Edit:
Yes, I know it's old. Yes, I learned
And yes, I have proof PLEX actually CAN drop on death
EDIT:
Wow, 4 PLEX = 2 bil...the good old days.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Druuna Charante
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.12.31 19:21:39 -
[24] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Druuna Charante wrote:Some people like to fly with maximum safety settings. To each his own, but you are unnecessarily pigeonholing yourself.
It's not pigeonholing. I have seen enougth threads of people ragequitting after losing all their stuff after a gank. When you are a new player, this kind of losses are crippling.
It's not unreasonable in this game to start safely and take time to learn. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2057
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 19:39:16 -
[25] - Quote
Druuna Charante wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Druuna Charante wrote:Some people like to fly with maximum safety settings. To each his own, but you are unnecessarily pigeonholing yourself. It's not pigeonholing. I have seen enougth threads of people ragequitting after losing all their stuff after a gank. When you are a new player, this kind of losses are crippling. It's not unreasonable in this game to start safely and take time to learn.
The HP route is for people who expect to get caught/be a gank target, the smart route is for people who make sure they don't become a target by using cloak/mwd trick, and then the whole isk/EHP "rule" is null and void. I've hauled billions in a T1 hauler that way, it's all about how good you are at what you're doing.
To the OP, you can survive low sec just fine in a hauler if you do it right but there are some systems that you really shouldn't bother trying, Eghelende is one of those.
For more info watch these:
cloak/mwd trick Low sec travel |
Paranoid Loyd
8019
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Posted - 2015.12.31 19:42:18 -
[26] - Quote
Druuna Charante wrote:It's not pigeonholing. It is, I have linked in this thread the one key to keeping yourself safe. If you learn and understand how that works, you are going to be perfectly safe 99.9% of the time.
Druuna Charante wrote:I have seen enougth threads of people ragequitting after losing all their stuff after a gank. That's because they were ignorant and/or greedy not to mention entitled when they shouldn't be. It's only when you don't do your homework and educate yourself that bad things happen. That's how this game is designed.
Druuna Charante wrote:When you are a new player, this kind of losses are crippling. No not really, it just seems like it is. It happened to me, it happens to all of us. You either figure out what went wrong and change your tactics or you give up. Giving up when you get ganked simply means this game is not what you are looking for and probably should look for other games that are not as competitive.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Edward Deegan
14
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Posted - 2015.12.31 20:03:59 -
[27] - Quote
All good above suggestions. Here's a Reload video.
Hauling Into Low Sec - EVE Online
2016: All good things must end.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2057
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Posted - 2015.12.31 20:10:51 -
[28] - Quote
That video is really bad, do NOT use cloak/mwd that way as it's going to get you caught. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1055
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Posted - 2015.12.31 20:19:05 -
[29] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: That's because they were ignorant and/or greedy not to mention entitled when they shouldn't be. It's only when you don't do your homework and educate yourself that bad things happen. That's how this game is designed.
We had a player in here just about a week ago that was asking for all kinds of help and advice. He ignored all of it, did mostly the opposite of what we told him and then made a ragequit post saying that this game was too hard right before he/she biomassed the toon.
I am uncertain what would make someone come to this game and try to make it something that it is not instead of playing it for what it is. I know that I probably did a lot of that early on as well, I'm not criticizing I'm just saying there is something there that I don't understand.
Regardless we see a bit of what Loyd is talking about here. People coming to this game and doing exactly what a new player should not be doing and in many cases likely because us vets told them that new players should not be doing it and then ragequit claiming the game is too hard or too steep of a learning curve when it is just them choosing the hard path.
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Druuna Charante wrote:When you are a new player, this kind of losses are crippling. No not really, it just seems like it is. It happened to me, it happens to all of us. You either figure out what went wrong and change your tactics or you give up. Giving up when you get ganked simply means this game is not what you are looking for and probably should look for other games that are not as competitive. On the competitive ------------ cooperative spectrum I think of my self as way off on the cooperative side. However we want to look at it my personality type prefers less competitive things. There is a lot of room in this game for cooperative leaning players, you just need a little more patients. |
J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6147
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Posted - 2015.12.31 20:37:40 -
[30] - Quote
Druuna Charante wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Druuna Charante wrote:Some people like to fly with maximum safety settings. To each his own, but you are unnecessarily pigeonholing yourself. It's not pigeonholing. I have seen enougth threads of people ragequitting after losing all their stuff after a gank. When you are a new player, this kind of losses are crippling. It's not unreasonable in this game to start safely and take time to learn.
Uhm, have you opened the link above your post, obviously not.
Let me recap:
Started in Sept 2010. Dropped a lot of money in EVE in Feb 2011 (still a noob) Undocked with a badger (aka Tayra) from Jita 4-4 with a hold full of goodies (see link). Lost all stuff (including 4 PLEX). Recovered and learned from the mistake (sort of)
And, voila
I'm still here....
So, any loss a new player has that is "crippling" is only so, because HE/SHE chooses to see it that way. If that is the case, then EVE just isn't for you and you should continue your search for a game that does suit you. Nothing wrong with not liking EVE (hell, my friends think I'm weird cause I play EVE - Okay, maybe they are right), but that is NOT the game's fault.
Nuff said
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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