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Maggot
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 02:50:00 -
[31]
There is nothing greedy or hypocritical about assisting those that helped Ushra'khan in our time of need. We stood to gain nothing from this assistance but we gave it without question.
I will admit it was certainly a surprise to be in the same group as both LV and Veto. Given the debt of honour we have for ISS I do not think we would have changed our mind had we known they would be involved, as it was we pledged our support shortly after IAC commenced hostile actions so we did not even have to make this moral choice.
We stand by our friends.
Maggot.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 03:37:00 -
[32]
If Ushra'Khan had listened to their sister in arms warnings not to get involved you wouldn't have to explain yourselves at all. In fact, the only honor that was displayed out of Providence is that of Curatores Veritatis Alliance. Not only did Ushra'Khan parade itself next to the ship that claimed millions of slaves to build but you now owe a debt of gratitude to your mortal enemies in the CVA for asking the victims of your assault, the Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate, to rethink our bloodseeking path to take Unity Station.
The only looser of this war is your self respect and vision. You misplaced your honor and friendship. Here is something you might not know, but its how ISS really feels about their neighbors :
Quote: [ 2006.10.26 22:26:39 ] Nyphur > I think the problem is that you assumed there was some kind of alliance between us.
That comment was made to my alliance's previous leadership when life around the former Tycho and Marginis outposts was disrupted and we would seek talk to work out problems. If the Ushra'Khan didn't disrupt life with ISS you must have also been under some assumption that you owed them something, or they you.
Ignorance doesn't excuse the zealousness that led you to enter the war. Quite frankly I'd like to see your leaders choke on that bravado so the pilots in your fold that truly fight for freedom can be released from your yolks.
In short, you should be ashamed.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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DHB FooFighter
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 08:49:00 -
[33]
U'K
If your going to sell-out to save your station, At least choose a winning side. I mean come on, throwing in your lot with ISS? --------------------------------------------
{2007.01.07 15:49:20 Notify Pretax Metron has initiated self-destruct of their Chimera} |
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 10:38:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 21/01/2007 10:35:59 Your honour is what you choose it to be, not what your enemies tell you that it should be. Outface the depths of evil with clarity |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi If Ushra'Khan had listened to their sister in arms warnings not to get involved you wouldn't have to explain yourselves at all. In fact, the only honor that was displayed out of Providence is that of Curatores Veritatis Alliance.
Don't you even see the paradox in what you have said? I have treid to correct you there in the past but here goes again. You say that we had no honour for upholding our word to ISS? How exactly does that translate into the real world because I am at a loss. If we had listened to your advice then we would have still had no honour. And we are hardly in a position where we need to explain ourselves as our situation should explain itself to the open minded. Of course, the IAC had started a relentless smear campaign against us and our image now over your own bitterness. What we are now having to do is present our side of the debate for the general public so they don't swallow your tripe uninformed.
Originally by: Kaylana Syi The only looser of this war is your self respect and vision. You misplaced your honor and friendship.
I hardly see how our friendship to ISS was misplaced when they threw in large amounts of isk and manpower to aid us when we were invaded by pirates who wanted to claim our outpost. You are in no position to tell anyone who they should and should not have friendship with. Especially as we had next to no help at all from IAC in that time anyway.
Originally by: Kaylana Syi [ 2006.10.26 22:26:39 ] Nyphur > I think the problem is that you assumed there was some kind of alliance between us.
An old single line quote that could ahve come from any convo and in any context. Hardly incriminating
Originally by: DHB FooFighter U'K
If your going to sell-out to save your station, At least choose a winning side. I mean come on, throwing in your lot with ISS?
Ahh I see so we should have jumped on bandwagons and ignored any debts of honour or previous promises to ISS or any others? Please explain to Kay how this would help us keep our honour that she says we have lost.
When you have all made up your minds please let me know. Otherwise all you have to say is pure jibberish. Can't expect anything else from drunks though. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi Not only did Ushra'Khan parade itself next to the ship that claimed millions of slaves to build but you now owe a debt of gratitude to your mortal enemies in the CVA for asking the victims of your assault, the Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate, to rethink our bloodseeking path to take Unity Station.
With regardst to the Avatar, I don't see slaves on the list of required build materials so you assume just because a the pilot is called 'the enslaver' he used slaves to build it. While LV have been hostile to us in the past and would shoot people randomly and without cause in our space, we have not seen evidence of slavery in their ranks. So this comes down simply to them piloting an Amarr ship. Which is hardly a crime and if you think we would view it as such you don't know anything about us and should not be stepping up to pass jusgment on anything we have done until you do.
As for the CVA, if our flying along side LV is a stain on our honour, how does that make the CVA look in your eyes for flying along side The Priory when they were last in your space helping you? They had to fly along side pirates that they had fought with relentlessly in their space for months simply because you made that aligance. And you never batted an eyelid about this and the CVA claimed they had no choice as it was your show. So we are just as justified in claiming the same with LV and ISS having a friendship that we had to endure working under. But of course we can see how biased your arguments are since you don't bring that point up once. So why should anyone take stock in what you think about us when you are standing on a base of solid hypocrysy.
Also, don't be under any illusion that they asked for IAC not to come after our station simply out of kindness. They have desires to take Unity Station themselves and if your alliance had taken it that would have forced them to show their true colours in the future should they want to finish their goal and claim the entire Providence region. They would have had to either fight you for it or look totally weak by bargining with unbelievers for the station. Deep down they are war mongers who see the only means to get what their blasted religion wants is violent 'reclaiming'. If they knew any different then we would see long lines of ships at jump gates to Amarr space with passengers flocking to join their religion. And we don't.
And one final point for you to think over as a Minmatar. You are in an alliance run by a slaver, Tyrrax. They have good relations with the CVA and defence pacts. You are helping by extension an alliance that enslaves your kin. And you have called us honourless.
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
In short, you should be ashamed.
Are we the only ones here? ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
cold lazarus
Amarr Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: DHB FooFighter U'K
If your going to sell-out to save your station, At least choose a winning side. I mean come on, throwing in your lot with ISS?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA and that is why you and your bandwagon will never A) understand U'K. B) Defeat them.
The day will come when you come to rely on your gangbang buddies and they will be nowhere to be seen.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin UK have brought all of these troubles upon themselves. If you had aided ISS in the defence of their territory everyone would have sat back,applauded and said you have done the right thing. But like all terrorists you went one step too far, and assisted in attacking IAC directly in their space and helping to take their station. THIS was your mistake, I doubt any would have marked you out for your actions if you assisted ISS purely defensivly, but by joining in offensivly you have none to blame for the after effects but yourselves.
You try to make it sound like ISS were not justified in taking the fight to someone that declared war on them. We have already heard IAC's reasons for doing so anyway so that is not an issue. We have a different view of ISS than IAC but I respect IAC's right to such views so lets keep that out of here.
But regardless of the reasons for war, please show me the intergalactic rule that states ISS should have sat there and taken it from IAC. If they adoped that kind of stance they would become a free bombing run for every alliance on the map that wanted a fight. They should have sat there and done nothing to make the IAC pay for attacking them with an eye to taking their outposts? I can see how an Amarrian and a slaver would have such a view point anyway as your arrogance makes you think everyone should roll over on their backs for you but why a so called free space alliance liek IAC would have such a view is beyond me.
IAC have stated elsewhere that the U'K should take responsibility for our actions in aiding ISS against them. OK fair enough, we can and already do accept it to the point that we aided their enemy. That is justification enough in anyones eyes to want a pint of blood afterwards. But it seems that IAC and everyone that has waved their arms in the air over ISS and ourselves along with their other allies and hired guns marching into IAC territory are unable to see that IAC should also have accepted responsibility for their declaration of war and prepared for an attack on their homes. IAC do not get to dictate the terms of a war, and no one else does either.
Everyone remember what happened when ASCN declared war on BoB? Did BoB stay in their space and let ASCN come for them? They didnt' they rolled into ASCN space and slowly and surely dismantled it. That is how wars are fought and if IAC think any different then that is their issue. But however you slice it, attacking IAC space was not about greed. It was a valid and justified tactic. That is why we went in with them.
Also, answer me this Ikar. If the Ushra'Khan invaded CVA space in a full scale soverignty war, would CVA just sit there and take it or would they make plans of their own to invade ours? I think we both know the answer to that. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:38:00 -
[39]
A final note to IAC as I have said all I want to say now and at least our truth is where it needs to be for all to decide on.
If you guys want to justify coming after us and giving us a bruising, you don't need all the added half truth and mud slinging. Bottom line is, yes we sided against you in a war. What other reason do you need that you have to spread all this hate about us when none of it holds water?
All I ask is that if you want blood, then you do so for the real reason and not the manufactured dirt you have created agaisnt us. You accused us of trying to make your alliance look like a pack of bullies after you gained the upper hand and we stated our reasons for fighting with ISS as being about a debt to pay to them. I don't see how we tried anything of the sort there but the more you guys come out with your smear campaign the mroe you make it look true and when people realise that then your alliance will be the one that loses the respect of many others.
And remember one thing now. You have called in aid from many other alliances too, most of them not to savoury in the eyes of most like AAA and Shroud of Darkness. You now have a debt to pay to them too, and they are largly pirates. I would rather our debt was with the likes of ISS than pirates. Especially when your war has now helped install a pirate alliance in a former ISS outpost. When your space reopens for business as a 'free space', I do hope that Shroud of Darkness won't make life hell for your potential clients. Because the bottom line is you put them there. And called us Hypocryts in the process...
Makes you think... ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:50:00 -
[40]
SoD and AAA pirates? What pedestal do you stand on... the air must be thin up there.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Seoko
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 11:53:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Seoko on 21/01/2007 11:50:40
Quote: Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. So guard your Honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
I think this sums up how U'K feels about the situation in regards to ISS & IAC, we are just guarding our Honor.
Quote: Ignorance killed the cat; Curiosity just got framed.
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.01.21 12:47:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Tharrn on 21/01/2007 12:44:08 This whole thread looks a bit like an attempt to convince yourselves that you are still on track.
If you don't care about your reputation - what is the point in this whole statement?
Now recruiting!
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Seoko
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 13:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 21/01/2007 12:44:08 This whole thread looks a bit like an attempt to convince yourselves that you are still on track.
If you don't care about your reputation - what is the point in this whole statement?
We have guarded our honor, now we can see to our reputation. Because the nature of men is such, that if lies are left unchecked people will think there is truth where there is none.
What would you do if people told untruths about you? |
Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 13:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin UK have brought all of these troubles upon themselves. If you had aided ISS in the defence of their territory everyone would have sat back,applauded and said you have done the right thing. But like all terrorists you went one step too far, and assisted in attacking IAC directly in their space and helping to take their station. THIS was your mistake, I doubt any would have marked you out for your actions if you assisted ISS purely defensivly, but by joining in offensivly you have none to blame for the after effects but yourselves.
You try to make it sound like ISS were not justified in taking the fight to someone that declared war on them. We have already heard IAC's reasons for doing so anyway so that is not an issue. We have a different view of ISS than IAC but I respect IAC's right to such views so lets keep that out of here.
But regardless of the reasons for war, please show me the intergalactic rule that states ISS should have sat there and taken it from IAC. If they adoped that kind of stance they would become a free bombing run for every alliance on the map that wanted a fight. They should have sat there and done nothing to make the IAC pay for attacking them with an eye to taking their outposts? I can see how an Amarrian and a slaver would have such a view point anyway as your arrogance makes you think everyone should roll over on their backs for you but why a so called free space alliance liek IAC would have such a view is beyond me.
IAC have stated elsewhere that the U'K should take responsibility for our actions in aiding ISS against them. OK fair enough, we can and already do accept it to the point that we aided their enemy. That is justification enough in anyones eyes to want a pint of blood afterwards. But it seems that IAC and everyone that has waved their arms in the air over ISS and ourselves along with their other allies and hired guns marching into IAC territory are unable to see that IAC should also have accepted responsibility for their declaration of war and prepared for an attack on their homes. IAC do not get to dictate the terms of a war, and no one else does either.
Everyone remember what happened when ASCN declared war on BoB? Did BoB stay in their space and let ASCN come for them? They didnt' they rolled into ASCN space and slowly and surely dismantled it. That is how wars are fought and if IAC think any different then that is their issue. But however you slice it, attacking IAC space was not about greed. It was a valid and justified tactic. That is why we went in with them.
Also, answer me this Ikar. If the Ushra'Khan invaded CVA space in a full scale soverignty war, would CVA just sit there and take it or would they make plans of their own to invade ours? I think we both know the answer to that.
I believe you have missed my point. I am not saying ISS should not have done what they did. I am saying UK should not have entered into offensive operations with ISS. Defensive operations would be fine, and I do not think anyone would have blamed you for your actions.
And for some reason asking if UK launched an attack on CVA soverign space would we not do the same...of course we would, because how long have UK and CVA been at war for now? This is again how you have missed my point, I am not saying that the person attacked isnt justified to respond. UK were not attacked, yet they chose to attack IAC in IACs space, it was a case of overstepping your obligation, and this is what painted a target on you. Everyone understands the debt you owed ISS, and helping in their defence would have covered that. Going beyond removed the defence that obligation gave you.
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Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 18:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 21/01/2007 12:44:08 This whole thread looks a bit like an attempt to convince yourselves that you are still on track.
If you don't care about your reputation - what is the point in this whole statement?
I care about the truth, I saw distortions and assumptions being made against us. I stated the simple fact, I told the world why we acted and what we believe. The truth about us has been said while people still have time to decide for themselves, before any conflict distorts everything around it.
I do care about our name, in our reputation, if we cannot be trusted - do not deserve to be trusted - we cannot achieve our goals. I will not stand by and allow character assassination without making a stand. I have spoken out, the rest is up to history.
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Tar Kovsky
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.21 19:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin I believe you have missed my point. I am not saying ISS should not have done what they did. I am saying UK should not have entered into offensive operations with ISS. Defensive operations would be fine, and I do not think anyone would have blamed you for your actions.
A true Matari warrior honors his obligations, and does not decide to withhold help for fear of reprisals. Apparently, things are different in your "Empire".
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 21:17:00 -
[47]
I don't think U'K really had much choice in their course of action, and I probably would've done much the same if I was a filthy slave.
That doesn't change that they attached themselves to a sinking ship of course, glub glub !
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Khaldorn Murino
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.21 22:09:00 -
[48]
Stay strong UK, this isnt the first storm you've weathered. Our people need you. - Rise.
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Angelice
Minmatar British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.22 01:07:00 -
[49]
The best form of defense is attack, and in this it seems to me that the U'K have paid their dept with interest.
It would be a sad day if they were punished for their commitment.
Angelice British Space Corps
"To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius
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Chishan
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.22 01:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Angelice The best form of defense is attack, and in this it seems to me that the U'K have paid their dept with interest.
It would be a sad day if they were punished for their commitment.
Whatever comes, it is only a punishment if it breaks our spirits. I don't ever see the day coming that this happens.
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Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.22 04:59:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Sapphrine on 22/01/2007 04:56:17 /signed.
We fight for our honour and we fight to honour our debts. Most importantly we fight for our friends.
To those fighting us, stop talking and just fight. Your words on here are meaningless otherwise. All that needs to be said has been said. You're ready, we're ready, lets end this one way or another.
See you all on the battlefield regardless of which side.
edit: SPAG FTL
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.22 06:54:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 22/01/2007 06:50:53 Good luck, Ushra'Khan.
May your overly-tipsy opponents find themselves abruptly stark sober and go in search of a stiff drink as soon as the fluids from the cloning bay have rinsed off, leaving your territory and allies in peace.
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Ottom Ephesianos
Amarr Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.22 08:54:00 -
[53]
For one thing the IAC is a successful mega corporation. However you have no political stance on UÆKÆs primary objectives and you know CVA had no leg in UÆK territory at all. There is no reason and will never be a justifiable reason for you to invade Unity Station other than to pirate the system and claim the territory for yourself; Being a privateer that is within your rights. It was also the right of UÆK to look for support with so many unattended pirate and opportunist corporations plaguing our space ways.
The ISS is a well respected and established deep space entity: A mega corporate alliance covering the territory roughly the size of Caldari State. Your pirate infestation, IACà is what U'K was attempting to avoid when cutting CVA out of Unity Stations home systems; UÆK territory. CVA contacting IAC for support is like U'K contacting PIE for reinforcements against Minmatar Republic Amarr Sympathizers.
The IAC is a privateer organization and should consider the consequences of lusting too much for Unity Station. ItÆs bad business.
--------------------------------- "Trust me I've done this before." Elite R. Ephesianos ---------------------------------
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.22 11:30:00 -
[54]
no more posts from u'k side please.
we will not go into the history books as forum warriors. It doesnt liberate a single slave.
we will defend, but not offend. As soon allowed, we will carry on with our goals that made us found the alliance.
i am sure, nobody is iterested to know our motivations anyways and why it is a matter of honour, not a matter of greed or strategy. And if somebody wanted to know it, he would have opened a secure channel.
Any further posts shall be official, or not leave your terminals. U'K recruit!
contact me ingame for free eve webshosting |
Al Haquis
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.22 11:44:00 -
[55]
Olla.
Just wanted to let people know im still alive and the Unity promise still stands. Thouse words where writen in blood.
Uk fight to there is no ship left, when there are no ships left you fight with your hands, when your hands are a bloody lump and all hope is gone then remember there are still Minnie b-boys flying in space.
If IAC manage to take Unity , well thats another story...........
With love From Al Haquis
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Da'Shere
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:08:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Da''Shere on 22/01/2007 14:05:13 '
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Da'Shere
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:10:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Da''Shere on 22/01/2007 14:06:37 *broken posting*
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky A true Matari warrior honors his obligations, and does not decide to withhold help for fear of reprisals. Apparently, things are different in your "Empire".
Apparently a true Matari warrior is a two-faced hypocrit: one moment he worships 'freedom' as the highest ideal, the next moment he speaks of honoring obligations even at a high personal cost. An obligation apparently so strong he doesn't even 'get to decide' if he wants to withhold help.
You cannot be both free and bound at the same time. Choose one or the other.
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Tar Kovsky
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Merdaneth You cannot be both free and bound at the same time.
When ISS offered their help, we were free to accept it -- or not. By accepting it, we also accepted a debt of honor. We chose to be bound that way.
Those slaves you brutally mistreat were never free to make a choice.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Merdaneth You cannot be both free and bound at the same time.
When ISS offered their help, we were free to accept it -- or not. By accepting it, we also accepted a debt of honor. We chose to be bound that way.
Those slaves you brutally mistreat were never free to make a choice.
Merdaneth's slaves are not brutally mistreated.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
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