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Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2016.04.28 05:33:16 -
[31] - Quote
Jessie McPewpew wrote: Final cost is going to highly depend on cost of blueprint copies as well. Not that many people have 7bil to throw down on a entry level citadel BPO.
I was thinking the same thing. The Medium Citadel BPO is 6bil. Then you'll have to wait until the buyer makes blueprint copies or goes further and builds citadels - and transports them to market hubs for sale.
The build cost for a M Citadel (assuming no ME research to get out units quickly) looks pretty steep, since the build requires quite a number of advanced planetary components (breaking down the parts) of which prices have risen markedly and will probably rise even more.
Looking JUST as the Structure Parts to build the Astrahus, the Structure Market Network alone is going at 318m at Jita, and you need 4x of them i.e. 1.272b. Adding in all the other Parts at Jita prices (assuming you don't build the Parts yourself) - you get ~965m ... or a total build cost of ~ 2.237bil just for the M Citadel !!
Maybe my numbers are wrong? So the CPP estimated 700m figure seems way way off at current prices. Note: even researching the BPO would only reduce the Structure Market Network reqs from 4x to maybe 2x - which would shave off 600m. But researching the ME would cost probably quite a bit (I'm too lazy too look it up right now).
Note also: the price differences between T1 to T2 structure rigs is enormous. For 2% more efficiency you almost have to spend a half a bil more for a M Rig.
So ... I'll be surprised if you'll be seeing many builds on the market any time soon. Maybe some BPCs available. I haven't even looked at the L or XL. Heh. |
minumin
Corellian Trading Corporation
9
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Posted - 2016.04.28 06:09:35 -
[32] - Quote
i dont think you need any me research on the astrahaus bpo number of components is too small (per runs) to benefit from a reduction even at me10 well maybe if you build 10 of them in a single batch |
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
4
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:59:42 -
[33] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:Jessie McPewpew wrote: Final cost is going to highly depend on cost of blueprint copies as well. Not that many people have 7bil to throw down on a entry level citadel BPO.
I was thinking the same thing. The Medium Citadel BPO is 6bil. Then you'll have to wait until the buyer makes blueprint copies or goes further and builds citadels - and transports them to market hubs for sale. The build cost for a M Citadel (assuming no ME research to get out units quickly) looks pretty steep, since the build requires quite a number of advanced planetary components (breaking down the parts) of which prices have risen markedly and will probably rise even more. Looking JUST as the Structure Parts to build the Astrahus, the Structure Market Network alone is going at 318m at Jita, and you need 4x of them i.e. 1.272b. Adding in all the other Parts at Jita prices (assuming you don't build the Parts yourself) - you get ~965m ... or a total build cost of ~ 2.237bil just for the M Citadel !! And that's just "at cost". For sale expect a good mark up by the seller for the preliminary market. Maybe my numbers are wrong? So the CCP estimated 700m figure seems way way off at current prices. Note: even researching the BPO would only reduce the Structure Market Network reqs from 4x to maybe 2x - which would shave off 600m. But researching the ME would cost probably quite a bit (I'm too lazy too look it up right now). Note also: the price differences between T1 to T2 structure rigs is enormous. For 2% more efficiency you almost have to spend a ~1/2 bil more for a M T2 Rig. So ... I'll be surprised if you'll be seeing many builds on the market any time soon. Maybe some BPCs available. I haven't even looked at the L or XL. Heh. CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.
The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.
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Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2016.04.28 18:48:54 -
[34] - Quote
Jessie McPewpew wrote: CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.
The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.
Ok. But you built all your own parts using your own planetary resources right? 700m still seems low to me. Where's the profit for the seller?
And the prices have skyrocketed since BOM - so 700m won't be realistic for a long time. Right now it looks like you'll have to plop down a few billion just for a M citadel. |
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
5
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Posted - 2016.04.28 20:34:24 -
[35] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:Jessie McPewpew wrote: CCP was actually right, if you take into account the then current prices of those materials on the day the BOMs of all three citadels were announced. Personally, I have been able to acquire an asthraus worth of materials for around 550mil but I had to do the heavy lifting of converting P2 stuff to P4.
The current sell prices of those structure parts is almost 200% of build cost.
Ok. But you built all your own parts using your own planetary resources right? 700m still seems low to me. Where's the profit for the seller? And the prices have skyrocketed since BOM - so 700m won't be realistic for some time. Right now it looks like you'll have to plop down a few billion just for a M citadel. I suppose prices will come down over time ... but how quickly ?? Yeah, 700mil+ is still too high for a decent enough adoption rate, when few actually need it, and that is just for the hull. Obviously, releasing full manufacturing capabilities on launch would have helped spur growth and quickly stabilized prices but it didn't happen and maybe a small citadel will soon be released? Who knows... |
Tradari
Latex-Cuffs and High Heels
10
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Posted - 2016.04.30 04:03:24 -
[36] - Quote
purchasing all the PI currently and adding the manufacturing cost its close to 1.5bil however i think this is a drive to get more people into PI and flood the market more.
I might be wrong but there are some markets that already are out of the P4 materials so the citadels in the short term look to be a rare think unless you have the time to invest in them. Team work is the key to getting them built for your corporation. Investment in the BPO's i have now done but making my money back might be another matter.
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Max Fubarticus
The Scope Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2016.04.30 13:08:24 -
[37] - Quote
I know this personally.
6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ). 3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).
When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:
" getting them out there for players to build" " to prevent market profiteering"
I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.
thought I would share.
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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Mama Warbucks
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.04.30 14:10:16 -
[38] - Quote
Max Fubarticus wrote:I know this personally.
6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ). 3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).
When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:
" getting them out there for players to build" " to prevent market profiteering"
I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.
thought I would share.
Max
LOL, thx for the plug Max!
Everything you said was true, but you failed to mention some important things.
I am just the third party involved for obvious reasons. At some point I am sure my benefactors will ask me to set up an ad in the appropriate venue ( here is not the place ). The price points were not set by me, and the initial contracts that went out were meant as a "market test". I think most of their sales were actually "word of mouth" before the market test. Either way, indications are they are content with the price points as they are for the moment. Keep in mind that those who have chose to enter into this market niche will be faced with a lot of market instability for some time to come as more "Citadel" structures/products are introduced. It would be difficult for any single entity to cover it all. (btw sorry about the cspa charge). Good luck
MW |
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
6
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Posted - 2016.04.30 18:01:09 -
[39] - Quote
Max Fubarticus wrote:I know this personally.
6 Astrahaus Structure Kits were sold @ 60 mil ea. ( all sold within hours ). 3 Fortizar Structure Kits were sold @ 621.82 mil ea. ( sold within hours ).
When I asked the character why, she stated that they had a glut of Structure BPC's and used that to prevent a sharp market spike ( questionable as to whether that actually helped ). She also stated that she intended to continue doing this for the foreseeable future with the goal of:
" getting them out there for players to build" " to prevent market profiteering"
I asked about BPO cost recovery. She stated that the BPO cost had already been recouped from previous sales, so everything now is just profit minus copy cost. She also stated that the low cost was to balance build cost versus the spike and PI bottleneck that was predicted months ago. When asked about hull BPC's her response was "in the oven as we speak" and that cost would be below predictions or possibly price matched.
thought I would share.
Max Ended up paying 450mil for an astrahus kit but whatever. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6026
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 20:07:29 -
[40] - Quote
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:Anyone know the efficiency of refining modules and such on Citadels yet? At a glance, basically the same as a POS refining array or outpost, depending on the security level.
[Citadel] Updates to NPC taxes and refining rig bonuses |
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