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Darth Squeemus
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2016.01.05 22:53:29 -
[31] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Darth Squeemus wrote: Also, you're absolutely right about RL battleships being able to fit smaller weapons as well as large ones. Apparently you're also unaware that this can be done in Eve as well. If you think that fitting medium or small guns on your battleship will be helpful to you, give it a try and see what happens. This actually works rather well. I've been on a lowsec roam in a frigate fleet that came across a battleship that we thought would be easy prey. Needless to say, we were quite surprised when we started dropping to guns that could track us at close range.
Case and point. Being in a BS doesn't mean that you're hopelessly vulnerable to smaller, faster ships. It just depends on what you're prepared to encounter.
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oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:28:24 -
[32] - Quote
If it can do damge, it will destroy it. If i shot an skyscraper with an pistol, i will eventually it will topple. Basic physics really, its why tool dull.
Its realistic, and good balance, numbers kill bigger. |
Sigras
Conglomo
1105
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:41:30 -
[33] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Sigras wrote:Here's the problem...
When "Bigger" = "Better" then "Biggest" = "Best"
In a PvP game there should not be a "best" because if there is then everyone just does that and the game stagnates.
I understand that's probably what is best for you, but I would rather have what's best for the game instead of what's best for you. Refere to sizeable Battles the last year where that is the issue.... where battleship was the major force.... I havent found a big Battle in null which include a majority of battleships. In a set situsation, following EVE rules of Battle, a little frigate can take Down a battleship, lets say Hyperion, 1,5km long... (With a moron fit and moron player)... its like wrecking a car With a peagun... You're too young to remember, but the game used to be as you suggest where no frigate had a chance against any larger ship. There were 90% webs on every ship and nos that would suck you to 0% cap and keep you there.
The year was 2007, and you know what happened? Nobody flew frigates because they had no use!
Every combat manual for the game began with "Train out of the small ships as quickly as possible because they're useless" and HACs were considered "fast tackle"
Honestly the battleship does have a role, it's just overshadowed right now with T2 and T3 cruisers which do everything a battleship can do, but are faster and immune to bombs. IMHO if we had bombs that could hit cruisers and made T3 cruisers a bit more balanced we'd solve the battleship problem. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2843
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Posted - 2016.01.06 09:43:02 -
[34] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:One thing is baffling me, is that in this game, a battleship can be taken Down by a gang of frigs. Ive even been part of taking Down a battleship With 6 T2 frigs. sort of like how a strategic cruiser can be taken down by an entire fleet of cruisers.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2843
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Posted - 2016.01.06 09:47:07 -
[35] - Quote
Sigras wrote:IMHO if we had bombs that could hit cruisers and made T3 cruisers a bit more balanced we'd solve the battleship problem. This gives me an idea:
fast bombs--they travel twice as fast and detonate in half the time. They deal significantly less damage but have a smaller explosion radius. They'll still crush frigs just like the big bombs though frigs might get a warp off in time. Cruisers will be vulnerable cause they likely can't warp off in time.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2124
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Posted - 2016.01.06 10:44:27 -
[36] - Quote
Contrary to their name, battle ships are unsuitable for 90% of the battles in eve.
Giving them bonuses to small, medium and large guns/missiles might be interesting.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4076
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Posted - 2016.01.06 11:03:25 -
[37] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Contrary to their name, battle ships are unsuitable for 90% of the battles in eve.
Giving them bonuses to small, medium and large guns/missiles might be interesting.
Like the Barghest, Rattlesnake, and every drone boat you mean? |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2124
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Posted - 2016.01.06 13:22:42 -
[38] - Quote
Yes exactly. Drone boats and battleships that get bonuses to RHL are obviously fine as they can fight back against smaller ships. The majority of the other BS do not have an adequate method and should just go ahead and get bonuses to different size weapon IMO.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
726
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Posted - 2016.01.06 14:12:57 -
[39] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote: ust the huge size of the battleship, would suggest that it should wear a armor that would refuse any frig, destroyer or some crusers, since they couldnt be able to fit large enough guns to even penetrate a battleship. Also, due to the size, Battleship should be able to have, in addition to their large hislots, have a large array of med and small gunslots... Since you want to drag real life into this then you better go study history, battleships have always been easy prey for the smaller faster and more maneuverable ships, it is the presence of a fleet of smaller ships that kept them safe in relative terms.
While you are correct that the shells fired from those smaller ships will not penetrate the armor of a battleship, the simple reality is that they do not have to. With each shell that hits the armor it gets a little weaker and sooner or later the death of the battleship will come. So the only thing about a group frigates being able to destroy a battleship in this game that does not make sense when looking at real life is the time factor. A group of frigates in real life may take hours to bring about the demise of the battleship not minutes, but I for one am glad CCP chooses not to adhere to that part of reality, the shortened time frame makes the whole thing more enjoyable for one side and minimize the agony on the other. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
726
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Posted - 2016.01.06 14:15:09 -
[40] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Contrary to their name, battle ships are unsuitable for 90% of the battles in eve.
Giving them bonuses to small, medium and large guns/missiles might be interesting. Like the Barghest, Rattlesnake, and every drone boat you mean? I have not done an exhaustive study of this but it seems to me that EVERY battleship in the game has some form of drones bay even if they do not have bonuses to those drones. |
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Sigras
Conglomo
1106
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Posted - 2016.01.07 08:45:27 -
[41] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Sigras wrote:IMHO if we had bombs that could hit cruisers and made T3 cruisers a bit more balanced we'd solve the battleship problem. This gives me an idea: fast bombs--they travel twice as fast and detonate in half the time. They deal significantly less damage but have a smaller explosion radius. They'll still crush frigs just like the big bombs though frigs might get a warp off in time. Cruisers will be vulnerable cause they likely can't warp off in time. A fantastic idea, I love it... In fact, it sounds familiar... |
Zockhandra
Jewish Zeppelin Mafia
24
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Posted - 2016.01.07 16:49:11 -
[42] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:One thing is baffling me, is that in this game, a battleship can be taken Down by a gang of frigs. Ive even been part of taking Down a battleship With 6 T2 frigs.
Just the huge size of the battleship, would suggest that it should wear a armor that would refuse any frig, destroyer or some crusers, since they couldnt be able to fit large enough guns to even penetrate a battleship. Also, due to the size, Battleship should be able to have, in addition to their large hislots, have a large array of med and small gunslots...
If this was "humans" from Earth that colonized New Eden, they would bring some "history" from Earth, which indicated that battlleship didnt only pack large guns, but a Collection og smaller guns to.
This should also apply to battlecruisers that couldnt be penetrated by frigs or some destroyers (T1)... and cruisers would have better protection against frigs... ect ect
Tho Electronic warfare should all ships be vunerable to...
So... make battleships what they should be... a all-round battleship...
Let me anwser this in what i think will give you a good idea of whats going on here...
Lets take the Sphinx in egypt for example, shooting it with a big rocket would without a doubt leave it in pieces right? Firing a machine gun at it would scar it and ruin its features but it would still stand, even sandstorms slowly eat away at that ancient puddy cat...
Now multiple the machine gun effect by x12 - same result as a rocket launcher, Muliple the density of the sandstorm by x24 same result as the rocket launcher,
Nothing is impervious, everything erodes. All that matters is how long it takes.
now on the note of big guns and small guns. the larger ships are dedicated to guns their size to match other ships of their class, using every bit of space>capacitor>ammo as they can.... So there is no room for small guns...
BUT OH WAIT PLOT TWIST, there is. Drones are your small guns and your defense against small ships, which makes sense....why waste space and sacrifice a few turrets when you can just launch a few disposable drones. |
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