Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13547
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 17:50:49 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks. It's been almost a month since the Tech Two Logistics Frigates were released and I have a specific feedback request. We're interested in what you all think about the option of allowing these Logi Frigates into small FW complexes.
At launch we intentionally disallowed the Logi Frigates from small complexes, out of an abundance of caution and some concern that they might become oppressive in that environment. Now that the community has had a chance to play with them on TQ, we're revisiting the question.
On the one hand, logistics is always a very powerful tool and I can easily see 1 combat ship plus 1-2 T2 logi being very hard to break in a small plex. The defensive position provided by FW complexes creates the potential for logistics to be more frustrating to fight than usual.
On the other hand, T1 Support Frigates aren't getting a lot of complaints and they can even be used in novices. Allowing the Logi Frigates into small plexes would also keep them consistent with other T2 frigates. Additionally, it is generally true that something being overpowered with a group of friends is a significantly different issue than something being overpowered solo (like T3Ds) or soloish (like alt offgrid links).
So your thoughts and opinions on the issue are welcome. As always, answers with reasoning supporting your opinions are especially valuable. We brought the discussion up with the CSM earlier as well, but I'll let them share their individual opinions if and when they want to.
Thanks and happy new year!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
Oddsodz
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
171
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 17:57:14 -
[2] - Quote
Simple answer.
Yes you should.
|
Natheniel
Mostly Sober Dead Terrorists
52
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:01:17 -
[3] - Quote
Yes
"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
|
Kalaratiri
Death By Design Did he say Jump
756
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:04:27 -
[4] - Quote
I think in general it would be better to allow them into small plexes.
I have not seen them as particularly oppressive in any environment (yet at least), and I think the confusion of having a single branch of frigates not allowed into a plex that other t2 frigates can enter is not worth it.
While these t2 logi frigs are extremely powerful against larger targets due to their low sig and high speed, frigates have no problem tracking them especially once theyre webbed down. Having been in many 10-20 man frigate fleets with t1 frig logi, I've never seen them as being as totally controlling as cruiser logi due to the much smaller rep amounts. Lower frigate HP also allows the tactic of target switching to burn down targets before the logi can catch them much more easily.
So I vote yes.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
|
Heathen Blaggard
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:10:05 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, they should be allowed in. |
Fintarue
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
19
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:10:38 -
[6] - Quote
Definitely stick with the consistency. Even t2 logi cruisers can go in mediums I believe.
Host of http://www.twitch.tv/fintarue Bringing you the best tunes for the trip to a new clone!
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
3103
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:11:41 -
[7] - Quote
Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly.
DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode : Removed an accidental lock. Nothing happened. whistles innocently
Tora Bushido : Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
|
Kirith Kodachi
Aideron Robotics
39
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:11:52 -
[8] - Quote
Since T1 logi frigs can get into novices and smalls, and T1 logi cruisers can get into mediums, not allowing T2 logi frigs into smalls squeezes them out of any niche in FW plexes, too big for smalls and too small for mediums.
In other words, yes to T2 Logi in Small plexes.
Hey, you let Command Dessies in and no one is complaining about them in smalls ( I think) |
Cabon Scout
Pyryt's Rest
4
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:12:46 -
[9] - Quote
Yes they should. You've given us an sufficient way to counter them - the faction navy frigs. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1242
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:25:01 -
[10] - Quote
The fun thing about small complexes is that logistics have a harsh diminishing return once you put 10 or more destroyers into one - DPS is so high and buffers so small that logi ships make little difference as people just get volleyed off field. The only time logi in small complexes matters is in smaller gang settings, which are more manageable with ewar.
I don't have a lot of experience with the logi frigs yet, but if I can recall they do not repair that much more than their T1 counterparts, but they are much more survivable. Simply burning through them with massive DPS should still be an option. In all I don't think they will cause much of a problem in smalls, except if paired with Command Destroyers. With their resistance bonuses and ability to fit bigger buffers, they might cause some problems... |
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 18:49:11 -
[11] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly.
Let's let them in first and see what happens before we start nerfng them in smalls. |
James Clough
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
30
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:02:36 -
[12] - Quote
You let tech three destroyers in small for months, why not let t2 frigs in?
#GLITTER http://i.imgur.com/KXyHvqy.jpg
|
Zenoidan
Icendus Corux Quam'Nocent
26
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:04:10 -
[13] - Quote
Yes.
The simple reason being small gang fights will be so much better in Small complexes.
Small complex = the new small gang place to be.
But seriously as others have said...you let T3D's in with out asking, knew they were OP, players gave feedback that it was OP and stupid for them to be in smalls, hell it took A LOT to get you guys to remove them.
Since day one of Logi Frig everyone has been miffed you wont let them into smalls. One again players gave feedback saying they should be let in.
Now this post? Just let them in already...
This would also sort of be better for assault frigs in a way since T3D's are not allowed in them anymore. And I would argue that you cant say the same for mediums because T3D's and Recons exist in those that once again will make small gang fights cancer with everyone flying a svipul. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
665
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:19:12 -
[14] - Quote
I prefer to fly logi, if possible. So, I would ask: what is the place for T2 logi frigs in FW if they are not allowed into smalls? For a medium, just ship up to a T1 logi cruiser. For a novice, use a T1 logi frig. In what other scenarios do you see T2 logi frigs being used over other choices? In most cases it would seem to be wiser to take a T1 logi cruiser. The T1 logi cruiser is cheaper and generally more capable. Yes, I know it is slower and has more mass, but that doesn't seem to be a huge hindrance in most cases. Faction Warfare is the only place that one really sees fights filtered out by hull types. So, I say to let the T2 logi frigs into small plexes.
Forged in the fires of the forth Delve war, I've been to hell, and I'm back for more, so cap the gas and push back the door, turn fuel to fire, let the monster roar.
Retainer of House Sarum
|
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
712
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:25:15 -
[15] - Quote
The raw dps output of dessies, new ewar frigs (and old ones too, <3 maulus, griffin, keres, and kitsune) combined with the new command dessies micro jump field means there are so many tools available to counter logi in smalls (Not to mention recent logi nerfs...). It'd be a complete waste of a ship class from a FW player perspective if they were not allowed in smalls (since you can just bring a t2 cruiser logi into a medium rather than a t2 frig). So yes, let them in. |
Gorski Car
687
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:37:38 -
[16] - Quote
Yes they should be allowed in. They are not that big of a problem especially compared to say recons in mediums or pirate frigs in novices. But then again those arent that common anyway.
Collect this post
|
Vivace Naaris
OpSec.
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:50:32 -
[17] - Quote
Yes, they should be allowed. I see very little reason not to. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
120
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:52:07 -
[18] - Quote
yes please. logi frig 5 just finished a few days ago! :D |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1242
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:58:26 -
[19] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:Yes they should be allowed in. They are not that big of a problem especially compared to say recons in mediums or pirate frigs in novices. But then again those arent that common anyway.
You leave my Curse lurking in mediums alone. It's literally the only trolly thing I can do in the entire game. |
Matthew Dust
MATARSOC Minmatar Republic Marines
53
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 20:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes and bring back td3's too everyone has the option to use them so it's only op for poor people who should join a community that works together to overcome ****. |
|
Thorr VonAsgard
Never Surrender.
69
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 20:20:40 -
[21] - Quote
Yes they should as other t2 frigs are already allowed
You miss blink ? Come and play with us at EVE-Lotteries.com !
Envie de fraicheur ? Frugu, le forum fruité est fait pour toi !
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
45
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 20:30:22 -
[22] - Quote
Yes. I wonder why you did this.
T3 Cruisers : not allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's allow T3 Dessies in Smalls !!!!" T2 Cruisers : allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's not allow T2 Frig Logis in Smalls !!!"
CCP_Logic at his best. *sigh* *facepalm* |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
343
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 20:43:57 -
[23] - Quote
IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3) Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3) Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
45
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 20:47:40 -
[24] - Quote
Not even mentioning that Logi T2 would've been OP ASIDE T3Dessies, if those ones were still allowed in smalls. Which they are not anymore, so why forbid frig logis in small ? The is just ... whatever.. |
Destman
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 21:30:37 -
[25] - Quote
If you want faction warfare to be about solo PVP, don't allow powerful logi into the sites. If you want faction warfare to be about group PVP, consider allowing powerfullogi to enter smaller sites.
I see more power logi in smaller sites as a good thing to promote faction warfare into being about group PVP rather then solo. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1197
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 22:06:35 -
[26] - Quote
I hope you aren't implying that links aren't totally gamebreaking all the time
and yeah, logistics is horrible, but so is a bunch of other stuff like ecm and unkillable risk-free kiting ships. I guess let them in the plex if only to be consistent and not have exceptions for people to remember. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
340
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 22:24:51 -
[27] - Quote
Yes, let them in. Where else would you want them to be used in FW? There are enough counters to them that can enter a small. (e-war frigs or simply the alpha from destroyers) |
Kalaratiri
Death By Design Did he say Jump
756
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 00:02:11 -
[28] - Quote
My god, 26 posts of people agreeing unanimously. Is this some kind of record?
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
|
Varus Sakura
Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary
14
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 00:48:11 -
[29] - Quote
I am a Faction Warfare pilot. I in the past flew logi in other areas of the game, and still fly guardians, augorors, and inquisitors routinely.
I trained Logistics Frigates to level 4 as soon as they were released, under the assumption / anticipation that they would be of great and frequent use to me as a faction warfare pilot.
I have not at this point ever flown one. There has not been a single situation where Logistics Frigates were available to me that it would have been preferable to fly one over a t1 or t2 logistics cruiser.
I would really like to fly one in the future; but in order for that to happen, they need to have a use case, insomuch as there is a situation where their use would be warranted of a different ship. |
Xavier Azabu
Tarantism Paisti Syndicate
34
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 01:40:05 -
[30] - Quote
I would put them in - as long as you continue to monitor them for balancing reasons.
I can understand your concern about putting them in at first. Small complexes seem like one of the few places in Eve to find a true solo experience.
However there are enough counters to warrant their use. I already see gangs in small complexes as well. Their addition would give faction warfare pilots an additional option for training and fleet composition.
Solo warfare generally depends upon the intel that you're not going to be facing too many enemies. This information is already provided by tools like D-Scan, Killmail API, and Local. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |