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Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
76
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:43:36 -
[31] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat? Because in your "pvp" games mentioned there are nothing at stake. It's like "loser washes the cars" type of race, really. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:50:50 -
[32] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat?
Building on this:
Good fights over nothing vs. fighting tooth and nail to avoid being evicted from space you call home.
Which one of those are you more likely to fondly look back on 5 years from now? If you answer the former, then hats off to you for having a photographic memory (or perhaps keeping a journal of all your GFs?). If you answer the latter, you're damn right fights that have more on the line than zkillboard stats are more memorable.
I wish there was more incentive to have the latter in Eve, short of purposely goading someone into hating you enough that they try to wipe you off the map or trying to wipe someone else off the map just to spawn a war out of it. Regional scarcity of select resources would be great, I figure, in creating more conflict with "greater pupose" ... but that's never going to happen since CCP seems to want the opposite. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:56:21 -
[33] - Quote
Leila Meurtrier wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. Why are you guys in THIS game instead of one that gives you more PVP for less overhead if you PVP just for the sake of PVP and/or for the thrill of victory and agony of defeat? Because in your "pvp" games mentioned there are nothing at stake. It's like "loser washes the cars" type of race, really.
Match of CS:GO Alterac Valley Battleground T1 cruiser roam Catalyst ganks
I don't see much difference in what is "at stake" in any of these.
Maybe I need to move into wormholes. |
Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2016.01.07 18:22:55 -
[34] - Quote
Personally, I think a lot of MMORPGs struggle to "find a point" to PVP...beyond the "fun of it." That's reason we have FW at all.
Anyone remember Dark Age of Camelot? That had some awesome PVP...
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
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Paranoid Loyd
8089
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Posted - 2016.01.07 18:26:32 -
[35] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The thrill of victory and agony of defeat. I guess I just don't feel that much thrill in victory or agony in defeat unless there's more on the line. It's pretty simple, if you want to put more on the line then fly more expensive ships.
I however don't see it that way at all, for me it's about the experience. The good ones admittedly come few and far between, but that makes them that much sweeter. I recently had a great fight where I lost a VNI to a Gila, we were both deep in structure and it came down the fact I made a few errors that if I didn't make I would have won. I thought I had him but in the end he prevailed. It's a rush I have never experienced anywhere else, even though it was an agonizing loss, it was still a great experience.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1460
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Posted - 2016.01.07 18:36:04 -
[36] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651
OP is a serial troll, kids.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13274
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Posted - 2016.01.07 19:20:29 -
[37] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651
OP is a serial troll, kids.
He may be, I've never read another post of his (and may not want to lol).
But he's right to question how things are right now. And as I said it has to do with a lot of things, but I think how this game does rewards is at the heart of it.
It's not just old guy nostalgia either. When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel...
When I 1st went to Omist, it was a race to any anomaly that spawned (this was pre-Dominion/system upgrade features). And if you got one to escalate, you won the damn lottery.
I had 3 escalations from anoms yesterday. I did one, made 500 mil (big whoop) and let the other 2 die (or they will die today, one in an hour and one in 3 hours from now) because I can't be arsed even though i got plenty of time being on vacation. Even 1.1 bil plex isn't incentive enough to do them.
If I and my alliance lost everything today including my 5 bil worth of ships in our home system, no big deal, I haven an incursion alt and an FW alt. CCP (hopefully inadvertently) created a situation where loss doesn't hurt like it should.
That hurt spurs a who lot of good things in a game like EVE (when people get vengeful and/or desperate, epic content gets created), CCP has given us too many cushions and we're all suffering because of it (myself especially, since back in the day I , in my ignorance, was one advocating for more rewards for stuff). |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
996
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Posted - 2016.01.07 19:34:25 -
[38] - Quote
I will say this, eve is one of the few pvp games that really gets my heart beating. For example, Call of Duty is fun. I play it and enjoy it. Still, I've never had to take a breather after a match like I have in EVE.
In one fight, I was in a cloaked bomber scouting. The enemy fleet landed on gate with a blackbird at range. I had the task of sneaking close to the blackbird so I could try to drive him for the field while my fleet jumped I to engage. The whole rush of the hunt and trying to get close to do my job was awesome. I can only think of one other fps that had close to that feeling and that game is long gone. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
33
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Posted - 2016.01.07 19:50:03 -
[39] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel...
The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9777
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Posted - 2016.01.07 20:17:02 -
[40] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Is this thread really about PvP, or actually about people?
It's not about people. It's about a person. Me.
It's always all about me.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13274
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Posted - 2016.01.07 20:20:44 -
[41] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel... The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked.
Erm? what? |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
271
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Posted - 2016.01.07 20:23:21 -
[42] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:
TL/DR = Why PVP?
It's a game, thus it is about having fun.
PVP is fun for me. In EVE it's also interesting, unlike in FPS or other types of games, because there are persistent effects and genuine consequences - losing ships, losing ISK, a huge range of tools and tactics and variables to contend with and an effectively infinite battlefield.
If it wasn't fun it would not be worth spending time doing.
There are lots of things in EVE that are no fun at all to me. Hence I don't do trading, mining, hauling, manufacturing...I have a job, I don't need to have a second job "playing" a game. Perfectly happy for other people to do so if that floats their boat.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
33
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Posted - 2016.01.07 21:33:31 -
[43] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel... The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked. Erm? what?
You say you had to work to get something. Then you lament how easy it was for another person. Could it be easy because you provided a lot of guidance and help?
Who helped you get the Raven? No one? So is it a surprise it was harder then? |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13274
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:20:38 -
[44] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:When is tarted playing it took me 3 months of logging in every night to earn the isk to pay for my 1st Navy Raven. A couple years ago I help out a dude who was new to the game (a friend of one of my corp mates) with a Maelstrom I wasn't using. 2 Days of high sec incursions and he was in a Machariel... The wealthy, veteran player helping you earn that first Navy Raven by running his Maelstrom for you must have really sucked. Erm? what? You say you had to work to get something. Then you lament how easy it was for another person. Could it be easy because you provided a lot of guidance and help? Who helped you get the Raven? No one? So is it a surprise it was harder then?
Nonsense. I had help for my 1st Raven from the guy that introduced me to the game (in the same way I helped this other guy by loaning him a t1 battleship). I had to earn my 1st Navy Raven the same way the new guy earned his 1st Machariel, via PVE.
You telling me you don't understand what I'm saying? If so, let me put it this way: The guy I helped spent 2 days in 2013 doing what it took me about 90 days to do in 2007. An 88 day difference. Part of why it took so long is that I whelped 3 Ravens as a noob (when losing a t1 BS meant something), unlike my new bro, I didn't have an entire logistics squad to broadcast to.
Nowadays people are starting to roam in carriers out of boredom. It's easier to get a carrier hull today via pve than it was to get a t1 BS back in 2009/10. Under the right circumstances a FW mission blitzer can earn a carriers worth of LP in 4-7 hours using nothing more than 1 character in a disposable Stealth Bomber.
The point here is that CCP has made it too easy to make isk (both personally and as an organization) in this game ,even right out of the gate, we train noobs to use Navy Vexors now to make as much with a couple weeks training as pro mission blitzers with deep game knowledge did in 2009. This makes many experiences less valuable than they once were.
There is no reason beyond boredom or the need to stoke thine epeen to fight over anything if everything is provided so easily. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:37:56 -
[45] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651
OP is a serial troll, kids.
Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:44:02 -
[46] - Quote
Ah well. I guess maybe I'm just located in the wrong area of the game if I want to find more meaning in my PVP.
I also think I'm in love with Jenna |
Leeluvv
Polarized
64
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:52:11 -
[47] - Quote
Ginnie wrote:Personally, I think a lot of MMORPGs struggle to "find a point" to PVP...beyond the "fun of it." That's reason we have FW at all.
Anyone remember Dark Age of Camelot? That had some awesome PVP...
http://camelotunchained.com
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Trudeaux Margaret
Imperial Guardians
202
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Posted - 2016.01.07 23:27:17 -
[48] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Ah well. I guess maybe I'm just located in the wrong area of the game if I want to find more meaning in my PVP.
You're in sov null, right?
Much of what goes on out there is, IMO, psychological as well as physical, on the spot PvP. Sov alliances have their dedicated pvp'rs and then they have their miners and people who prefer to rat more, and for the enemy to get in there and wear down those PvE players repeatedly can be a win over the long run.
So for the people doing it, it serves two goals, kills for the killboard and (hopefully) slowly weakening the enemy from within.
[ 2016.01.05 23:16:53 ] Antabor Aldent > anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?
[ 2016.01.05 23:17:39 ] Anoron Secheh > grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2145
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Posted - 2016.01.08 00:12:44 -
[49] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651
OP is a serial troll, kids. Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other.
Choices > consequences. If you don't like being called on whatever it is you do (or have done) then you shouldn't have done it. |
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7327
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Posted - 2016.01.08 00:27:45 -
[50] - Quote
Meaning is a fluid concept. PVP will have different meaning for everyone that plays the game. For me, it's about enjoying EVE to its fullest. For a while there, last year, it was about defending R64s from NCdot. Let me tell you why those two are different.
Structure warfare sucks. I can't stand it. I'd much rather be out looking for fights for no other reason than the fight itself, even solo, than conforming to someone else's idea of meaning.
That being said, what sets this game apart is that it's basically a PVP arena, where everything you do is in competition with someone else. Wanted to fit up a bunch of Kestrels yesterday, I'd bought everything I needed except the rigs. I opened the market to get them, and found there just weren't enough for the fit I was throwing together. People need to supply them, and then I compete with the demand against other people who want to purchase them. Or, I can try to look after my ships better and not lose them so I don't have to buy new rigs...
Which, again, brings us back to meaning. I'll tell you what makes EVE 'real'. I was an SWTOR player for a while, but I've been playing EVE for longer. One thing that always amused me on SWTOR was that when I died, I'd respawn with ALL the gear I had on a moment ago. It'd be damaged, but a quick trip to an NPC vendor took care of that. No need for resources, no need to find a player to help with repairs, and no need to replace my gear.
In EVE, when you lose it, it's gone. There's your meaning, a meaning that we all share.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7327
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Posted - 2016.01.08 00:30:57 -
[51] - Quote
Also, as everyone else has made clear, PVP is just fun. No other game can provide the heart-racing adrenalin rush this one can give you, knowing that permanent shiploss is one tiny mistake away. In no other game can one experience the sheer thrill of surviving a battle at ~10% structure and getting away after heavy combat.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Ibutho Inkosi
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2016.01.08 01:16:44 -
[52] - Quote
Tiny pleasures for tiny minds. It's been with us since the dawning of people-kind. Like sitting through two hours of a George Lucas film, then spending the next year arguing about it. There's no sense in telling anyone George Lucas sucks as a writer, and his movies are marginal at best. NooOOOOoooOOOOooooo. They're vicariously rising and falling through blind repetition.
That's why we're looking at using chimps to actually become the culture.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1193
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Posted - 2016.01.08 01:25:37 -
[53] - Quote
You built a pos tower to mine this moon. You gathered newbros and taught them to mine and rat in safety in the surrounding systems. You set upon roaming explorers and hostile travellers, made friends with locals. Then i arrived, with my gang of spider tanking Domis, reinforcing your tower. You called upon your friends to defend the tower, but i had friends too who dropped dreads. You scattered across the map, after filling local with abuse. We replied with .jpgs from popular entertainment showing women crying, or being pelted with hotdogs. The day your precious tower was destroyed was the most momentous event in the year for you.... ...for me, it was a Tuesday.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2016.01.08 01:30:08 -
[54] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=460651
OP is a serial troll, kids. Now now. I ADMITTED that was a fairly ridiculous idea right in the OP, and one or two trolls does not a serial make, and I'm not even sure you can call that a troll since in the end you guys sunk it into my thick skull why PVP and PVE activities are pretty balanced against each other. Choices > consequences. If you don't like being called on whatever it is you do (or have done) then you shouldn't have done it.
I expect you'll deliver another 4-5 troll threads to substantiate your serial troll accusation then. It's not like you said "OP has posted a less-than-super-serious thread once or twice, kids."
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Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
343
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Posted - 2016.01.08 01:50:25 -
[55] - Quote
Since I came to Eve specifically to PvP, I don't really need an incentive. The idea of being a space pirate appealed to me so I began playing with that goal in mind. Like so many others, I got sidetracked just trying to make isk enough to watch a Rifter explode 20 seconds into any fight. Took me too long to get out and PvP.
Eventually I broke away and went to low sec and typed YAAARRRR into local. Because I play this one character, and only this one acct- my actions had real consequences. My sec status dropped and pretty soon it was hard to do 'safe' PvE in high sec and pirate in low sec. That drove me to make friends that could keep me supplied (more interesting than just rolling an alt to dodge sec status). Eventually it drove me to -10 with everyone open to shoot me.
So for me, part of the incentive was to drive the 'story' for my character. Because I didn't dodge the consequences of being an outlaw, my game was altered dynamically, which was just fun to play. When I got tired of being shoot-on-sight for all of New Eden I moved to Sov Null- if anyone can kill you on sight, might as well go where sec status doesn't matter.
The real reason I went to Sov was to take part in the really big fights. I spent a year in low sec maxing out core skills instead of chasing larger and larger PvE ships. So when I moved to null, I had solid skills and just needed to train for the shiny hulls. The best part of sov life is the SRP. Given that, there is no good reason NOT to PvP. I don't care if I lose a bil isk Blops- I will be reimbursed for it. I only need to PvE to initially buy a doctrine ship- after that it is basically insured at 100% by my alliance.
Eve's PvP is amazing. It's PvE is pretty bad. Guess which one I am incentivized to do...... (credit where it's do- CCP has been working on the AI) |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
502
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Posted - 2016.01.08 09:54:44 -
[56] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nowadays, for too many people, it's only anymore about their own fun and entertainment.
People remove meaning from everything nowadays, changing it all into something shallow.
Is this thread really about PvP, or actually about people?
Players are people, therefore.... yes? |
Arya Ikahrus
21
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Posted - 2016.01.08 11:05:30 -
[57] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:What's the incentive to PVP?
If you're old and rich, not much I guess? Me, I'm relatively young and definitely poor. If I'm shooting you it's because I want or need something and if I lose I'll feel it.
If I made it to a trillion isk with a hangar full of pimp fit bling and nothing to do but shoot people I'd probably stop logging in, PvP is fun in Eve, but a large part of it for me is the risk of loss. |
Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
256
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Posted - 2016.01.08 13:12:45 -
[58] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Mister Ripley wrote:Fun for fun's sake is not enough? Like.. you know... sex, food, drugs, music, sports, etc... http://www.eveonline.com/ "Eve Online. Real Life Science Fiction." When was the last time you read scifi where people fought each other just for ***** and giggles? I'm not saying that fun for fun's sake isn't enough. But CCP doesn't try to sell this game as a "come PVP in Eve because PVP in Eve is fun" ... it tries to sell this game as "come struggle in the vast universe of Eve, where your every move is PVP and you are always doing something meaningful to carve out your own niche in the biggest sandbox ever!"
Technically... every major war ever. Reasonings behind wars typically devolve into "x leader(s) wanted to kill y leader(s) or take their stuff" Yes yes opinions blah blah blah.. its still technically true for most wars.
But on to serious matters.. Eve is a sandbox. Ergo PVP is also a sandbox. In sandboxes you dont get tiered rewards for doing something. You craft and choose your own rewards. What you want is a tiered PVP system ala wow, wildstar, etc. IE: I kill X noobs and get better gear so i can kill a new class of noobs!". This is not how eve works. Just go blow sh*t up and use the brainpan. |
Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
286
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:14:41 -
[59] - Quote
Lots of PVP is over control of solar systems and regions. For instance, JUMP-N, my alliance, is currently involved in a war against Dead Terrorists. It's more complex than that of course, with plenty of other entities being involved but from our POV that's how it's going.
You want meaningful PVP? Find some Khanid or Genesis solar systems with both good moons and agents (maybe a whole constellation) then oust everyone who lives there and you have a home that makes tons of ISK. Now fight off people who come to claim said home |
Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
286
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:18:20 -
[60] - Quote
Arya Ikahrus wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:What's the incentive to PVP? If you're old and rich, not much I guess? Me, I'm relatively young and definitely poor. If I'm shooting you it's because I want or need something and if I lose I'll feel it. If I made it to a trillion isk with a hangar full of pimp fit bling and nothing to do but shoot people I'd probably stop logging in, PvP is fun in Eve, but a large part of it for me is the risk of loss. At a trillion ISK you start doing titan Drive-bys, and there's still very real risk. Or small gang in AT ships worth up to 200 billion each :) |
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