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Thord Makanen
Fabritech Engineering Spectrum Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.10 13:22:30 -
[1] - Quote
[rant] It sucks to be a miner in infested sectors, guys. I am gonna have to sit out for a week and do nothing since all around me is infested. My corp. is small and there is no way for us to defeat them in order to sanitize the sector. Long trips for mining are pointless.
In stead of including newbies in the game, stuff like that respells them. Instead of making us play as much as possible, you make us wait. :) [/rant] |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10169
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Posted - 2016.01.10 13:24:21 -
[2] - Quote
Why not move, in that case?
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Thord Makanen
Fabritech Engineering Spectrum Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.10 14:29:43 -
[3] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Why not move, in that case? Corp office would be too far. About 6 jumps in every direction, which is pointless. There will be a lot of ore to move afterwards and will take several trips. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2016.01.10 14:45:33 -
[4] - Quote
a whole 6 jumps?
i understand your hardship |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4930
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Posted - 2016.01.10 16:05:49 -
[5] - Quote
Mining is already one of the most thankless jobs in EVE, so I'm not totally unsympathetic.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2035
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Posted - 2016.01.10 16:36:18 -
[6] - Quote
Take it as a ... sign ... try something else than mining in the meantime. The world is out there ... beyond those belts.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10172
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Posted - 2016.01.10 17:18:35 -
[7] - Quote
Thord Makanen wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Why not move, in that case? Corp office would be too far. About 6 jumps in every direction, which is pointless. There will be a lot of ore to move afterwards and will take several trips.
This is where teamwork would be a good thing to use
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13296
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Posted - 2016.01.10 17:54:12 -
[8] - Quote
What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".
So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.
A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
777
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Posted - 2016.01.10 18:05:44 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah, my parents won't let me cross the street without one of them holding my hand either.
Btw, you know Freighters and Orca's and Industials are a thing, right?
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4931
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Posted - 2016.01.11 04:01:01 -
[10] - Quote
Incursions... not much recourse. Bumping... zero recourse. Can flipping or MTU targeting... well, stay close to either. Ganking... tank the sucker at a slight hit to mining efficiency. Still a really thankless job.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1280
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Posted - 2016.01.11 04:12:14 -
[11] - Quote
IMHO never keep all your eggs in one basket. Take the time to learn to diversify a bit.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Kithran
121
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Posted - 2016.01.11 12:37:04 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".
So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.
A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now.
Please learn what you are talking about.
1) The OP is talking about a minor infestation which is a drifter incursion - these are not being tackled in any sort of large numbers by players so it is not the case that one group of players are forcing the consequences on another.
2) Sansha incursions already lower rat bounties.
3) There are often not enough people locally to kill an incursion so without the dedicated incursion runners the incursion would actually last longer and have a bigger impact (once an incursion is being "farmed" influence will quickly go to zero meaning things like reduction in ship resistances and damage dealt are removed, incursions will not end by simply timing out if one or more groups are running incursions for rewards). |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2016.01.11 18:10:31 -
[13] - Quote
Thord Makanen wrote:[rant] It sucks to be a miner in infested sectors, guys. I am gonna have to sit out for a week and do nothing since all around me is infested. My corp. is small and there is no way for us to defeat them in order to sanitize the sector. Long trips for mining are pointless.
In stead of including newbies in the game, stuff like that respells them. Instead of making us play as much as possible, you make us wait. :) [/rant]
Did your roids get incursed? heh heh
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Thord Makanen
Fabritech Engineering Spectrum Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.11 18:37:03 -
[14] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:a whole 6 jumps?
i understand your hardship I understand people have more free time than me to jump through the gates, but simple maths proves it is pointless to make all those trips, unless more experienced players are chilling on site to buy/collect your ore.
Sobaan Tali wrote:Yeah, my parents won't let me cross the street without one of them holding my hand either. Btw, you know Freighters and Orca's and Industials are a thing, right? Edit: They don't take bounties, Jenn, but CONCORD takes a portion (25% I think?) of all bounties served in Incursion systems. Are they a thing on a 30-40 day account?
I agree players have to diversify, but do you think that a rook account has the versatility and skills to do that? Unless there is a feature where you train 3 queues simultaneously. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
975
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Posted - 2016.01.11 18:38:24 -
[15] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Yeah, my parents won't let me cross the street without one of them holding my hand either. Btw, you know Freighters and Orca's and Industials are a thing, right? Edit: They don't take bounties, Jenn, but CONCORD takes a portion (25% I think?) of all bounties served in Incursion systems.
You don't get it do you? The normal rats in the system are replaced by Sansha. That means you can mine in a belt, but when the NPCs show up, they will be Sansha rats; and they aren't that easy to kill. |
Wee Heavy Mangeiri
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.01.11 19:03:35 -
[16] - Quote
If you are a character under 30 days then you are not worried about max mining with the toons. You can go a few jumps. Another thought is to train into a battleship with Meta 4 guns and a tank and run with one of the communities advertising into Incursion local.
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Sugilite
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
27
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Posted - 2016.01.11 21:02:44 -
[17] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".
So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.
A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now.
Quote: The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out.
Can you cite a ccp source for this? I was never under the impression that incursions were meant to be taken on by locals and was always under the impression that ccp was trying to find a way to enable a form of highly organized pve content that challenged players skill and character skill.
And if shutting down activities in the area doesn't encourage locals to fight the incision I don't see how your suggestion is making it easier to ignore the incision by going about normal business is going to further the idea of locals taking up arms. Sounds like a way to try and make them only relevant to the groups that are actively trying to complete the sites. |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2273
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Posted - 2016.01.11 21:27:43 -
[18] - Quote
Thord Makanen wrote:Tam Arai wrote:a whole 6 jumps?
i understand your hardship I understand people have more free time than me to jump through the gates, but simple maths proves it is pointless to make all those trips, unless more experienced players are chilling on site to buy/collect your ore. Sobaan Tali wrote:Yeah, my parents won't let me cross the street without one of them holding my hand either. Btw, you know Freighters and Orca's and Industials are a thing, right? Edit: They don't take bounties, Jenn, but CONCORD takes a portion (25% I think?) of all bounties served in Incursion systems. Are they a thing on a 30-40 day account? I agree players have to diversify, but do you think that a rook account has the versatility and skills to do that? Unless there is a feature where you train 3 queues simultaneously. 1. 6 jumps is practically nothing 2. people buy ore/minerals in many places try looking on https://eve-central.com/ 3. fit up a bare bones pos with a compression array and then you can compress ore 4. compressed ore is much easier to move 5. does no one in corp have a freighter? 6. learn to use courier contracts. If you are on or near a trade hub route these usually get picked up and delivered very quickly. 7. Say **** it and go do something that isn't mining.
I fail to see any problem here
@ChainsawPlankto
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Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
89
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Posted - 2016.01.11 21:46:25 -
[19] - Quote
Incursions suck for every non-incursionist more or less. You know, tanks don't work as intended, you can't chew occasional rat for profit, mission rats pay reduced bounties, mining missions gets sansha rats (Since most mining missions use default belt spawns as enemy of choice), in null sansha incursion rats lock you very fast and may easily pop cov ops/exploration frigate (It's not that bad, but if you used to move, shoot probes, then warp out, you might be blapped by that little bountiless NPC as if it was player insta-legion.
Still, as a highsec miner, you shouldn't even have home in common sense. Because when your volumes are low, selling ore in hubs is one of the worst things you can do. You should sell these on stations with storyline agents instead, which both helps people AND brings you good profit. Later on, it's probably a good idea to get yourself in renter nullsec, since it's safe and luxurious both for profits, options and pet projects possible. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
975
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 23:02:50 -
[20] - Quote
The issue is Incusrion runners farming these for days instead of actually taking out the mothership site at the earliest convenience; which can be done in less than 12 hours. They don't give a crap about the little man, and I could really care less either if you don't want to do something to discourage them except whine on the forums.
Incursioners pissing you off because they want to farm the incursion for 5 days +? Contact CODE and learn to suicide gank them. |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1854
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:57:59 -
[21] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".
So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.
A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now. Farming isn't really part of this issue, it's inactivity on the part of the locals. Even if you took the communities out of the equation, all you'd have left would be untouched incursions.
The reason incursions aren't cleared the day they spawn is due to those who have the most interest in clearing them simply don't do so. Reducing penalties and system effects may well keep the space usable for non-runners, but won't do anything to farming. Increasing penalties to tank and DPS through the course of the incursion might if they got severe enough.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1834
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Posted - 2016.01.12 01:02:22 -
[22] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".
So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.
A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now. Farming isn't really part of this issue, it's inactivity on the part of the locals. Even if you took the communities out of the equation, all you'd have left would be untouched incursions. The reason incursions aren't cleared the day they spawn is due to those who have the most interest in clearing them simply don't do so. Reducing penalties and system effects may well keep the space usable for non-runners, but won't do anything to farming. Increasing penalties to tank and DPS through the course of the incursion might if they got severe enough.
In theory the mining division of your corp alliance biatch to the PvE mission/ratting corpies who then go and clear the incursion.
Sometimes actually happens that way in null. Never happens like that in hisec as far as I know.
EDIT: I suppose there is always the option of paying an incursion community to clear the incursion but you would need to offer an awful lot of ISK |
Dante Burke
Practical Applications
17
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Posted - 2016.01.12 02:35:46 -
[23] - Quote
If your corp likes the space it's in, and you've already plans in motion, then I'd use this situation to the betterment of your corp.
There are a lot of pilots who enjoy the PVE aspects of EVE in many shapes and fashions. PVE combat pilots offers a corp, especially one that may be smaller, more opportunities (especially if they're an industrial corp). Not only would bounties collected help with the corp wallet, but if you have pilots capable of running L4s, there's salvage (both loot drops, and the salvage material itself), that can be refined, and used to build.
That being said, six jumps in EVE is nothing. If there's no interest in seeing about some combat PVE pilots, then I would pick the closest area of space to mine what you want, and do so. Dump it off at that temporary home until the Incursion is over, and then swallow the bitter pill of people using whatever hauling ships they have, to to bring it back to your home station.
Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.
I solo warped into Asakai, and all I got was this stupid t-shirt. - Dante Burke
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1836
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Posted - 2016.01.12 03:18:51 -
[24] - Quote
Dante Burke wrote:
That being said, six jumps in EVE is nothing. If there's no interest in seeing about some combat PVE pilots, then I would pick the closest area of space to mine what you want, and do so. Dump it off at that temporary home until the Incursion is over, and then swallow the bitter pill of people using whatever hauling ships they have, to to bring it back to your home station.
Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.
Also, assuming you are in highsec, Red Frog will only charge about 12 mill to bring 800,000 m3 of ore 6 jumps home. |
Andrew Indy
POS Party
145
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Posted - 2016.01.12 07:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.
Also, assuming you are in highsec, Red Frog will only charge about 12 mill to bring 800,000 m3 of ore 6 jumps home.[/quote]
You could also use public contracts, might take a bit longer to fill but i ahve moved stuff for as little as 1mil per jump.
Either that or refine the ore and just get the minerals shipped to a trade hub and flog them off.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
727
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:32:48 -
[26] - Quote
Kithran wrote:1) The OP is talking about a minor infestation which is a drifter incursion - these are not being tackled in any sort of large numbers by players so it is not the case that one group of players are forcing the consequences on another. Wondering why you thought the OP was talking about Drifters. Drifters do not impose constellation wide affects. Drifters do not replace the standard rats found in the EvE universe. Drifters do not congregate in ore belts and attack player ships. Drifters only attack player ships if you shoot at them, or venture into the Drifters space. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drifters
Kithran wrote:2) Sansha incursions already lower rat bounties. And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap so not sure if I am lucky or you have no idea what you are talking about.
Kithran wrote:3) There are often not enough people locally to kill an incursion so without the dedicated incursion runners the incursion would actually last longer and have a bigger impact (once an incursion is being "farmed" influence will quickly go to zero meaning things like reduction in ship resistances and damage dealt are removed, incursions will not end by simply timing out if one or more groups are running incursions for rewards). ALL Incursions have a pre-programmed life cycle and they will end no matter what the players do. As far as them lasting longer if there are no players involved that depends entirely on the Incursion runners. When they are in one of their little spats with each other an Incursion can go down in as little as 2 to 3 days. On the other hand if they are farming for max ISK / LP then they will run them to the end of the pre-programmed life cycle any way so there is no difference.
To the OP. It is your choice to not play for the duration but that is rather short sighted there are many things you can do.
To be honest 6 jumps is an easy move when you use the right ships, the Orca is always a good choice but there are other options as well. The Miasmos for raw ore. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Miasmos
The Kyros for refined minerals. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Kryos
If you are concerned about ganking and losing your stuff then a Deep Space Transport or the Blockade Runners are good options. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Category:Transport_Ships
Use the time to explore around the EvE universe and go visit places you have never been. If you have not done them, go run all the tutorial missions so you have a look at what else there is to do. Go run the Epic acr missions for standings and stuff. And the list goes on. However if you choose to sit it out then you really only have yourself to blame. |
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
91
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:48:39 -
[27] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap.
Except Sansha incursion belt rats offer no loot, no bounty and no salvage. And whole thread is not about how unprofitable incursions are, it's about penalties to every non-incursionist in the area which also includes rat swap for ore belts/anoms, gas sites, random spawns near gates and stations. |
aldhura
Bartledannians Nite Owls
29
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Posted - 2016.01.13 00:40:06 -
[28] - Quote
Why not just join an incursion fleet ?? There are those who will accept new players and even lend you a ship. Can't remember them off hand, but drop me a mail and when I log on I'll send the details.
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
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Kithran
121
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Posted - 2016.01.13 12:31:56 -
[29] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Kithran wrote:1) The OP is talking about a minor infestation which is a drifter incursion - these are not being tackled in any sort of large numbers by players so it is not the case that one group of players are forcing the consequences on another. Wondering why you thought the OP was talking about Drifters. Drifters do not impose constellation wide affects. Drifters do not replace the standard rats found in the EvE universe. Drifters do not congregate in ore belts and attack player ships. Drifters only attack player ships if you shoot at them, or venture into the Drifters space. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drifters
If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.
Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.
You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences.
Donnachadh wrote: And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap so not sure if I am lucky or you have no idea what you are talking about.
Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Have a look at the penalties when you are in a system with a sansha incursion - one of them is a 50% reduction to bounties paid by Concord. This can easily be tested by doing a mission in an incursion system and seeing how much you get for rats killed in that mission compared to doing that mission in a normal system.
Donnachadh wrote:Kithran wrote:3) There are often not enough people locally to kill an incursion so without the dedicated incursion runners the incursion would actually last longer and have a bigger impact (once an incursion is being "farmed" influence will quickly go to zero meaning things like reduction in ship resistances and damage dealt are removed, incursions will not end by simply timing out if one or more groups are running incursions for rewards). ALL Incursions have a pre-programmed life cycle and they will end no matter what the players do. As far as them lasting longer if there are no players involved that depends entirely on the Incursion runners. When they are in one of their little spats with each other an Incursion can go down in as little as 2 to 3 days. On the other hand if they are farming for max ISK / LP then they will run them to the end of the pre-programmed life cycle any way so there is no difference.
Please read what I posted - I know full well that incursions are a life cycle and will end without player intervention. My point was _without_ the dedicated incursion runners there will not be enough people completing incursion sites for the incursion to end any earlier. If there are dedicated incursion runners the incursion will finish prematurely because otherwise the incursion runners will not get their LP. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
727
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 14:35:59 -
[30] - Quote
Kithran wrote:If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.
Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.
You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences. Link please because there is nothing I can find that gives any information on these supposed system wide affects from a drifter incursion. |
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