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Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a pure caldari pilot i feel that with the deployment of the new tier 3 battlecruisers you have given an unfair advantage to everyone except caldari pilots. an example would be like giving a fat kid a whole cake while the skinny kid has to watch and get nothing. not one of the new ships allows for successful deployment of missles. take the nage for example you gave a caldari ship blasters. how many caldari pilots actually have maxed out blaster skills. its total disregard for the players needs. if the naga was deployed the proper way it should have been able to fit siege launchers with bonuses to go along with them. each of the other ships stuck with there true weapons for there race but instead you gave the caldari ship an off weapon. reconfigure the naga to fit siege launchers and give it some bonuses like you did with the manticore. i as an avide player since 2006 feel that i have been cast aside because of favoratism towards other races. now if i wanted to fly the ship properly i will be behind the power curve because i have to completly retrain myself to use hybrid weapons. im sure i am not the only one to have this issue with this. I do not wish to impead on your job but honestly some of the calls ccp makes has not been the greatest. from a players perspective it seems that you dont pay to much attention to the flow of the game. for example. caldari specialize in shields and missles thats what makes us great. but instead with the cuurent game you have givin massive bonuses to gun ammo of almost all types and have slightly increased bonuses for only one type of missle for caldari. also with the deployment of the new ships with the bonuses you put the power in everyone elses hands except the caldari. power in this game should be set by skill not by you. all ships should be equal in there own rights. but sticking to the traditions of the race in which it was built for |
Mr Painless
Temnava Legion TEMNAVA
19
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hybrids (railguns, to be more specific) are Caldari racial weapons just as missiles are. The list of Caldari ships that have purely hybrid bonuses is quite long, unfortunately not as quite distinguished. Your lack of hybrid and/or gunnery skills is your own problem. Especially if you play from 2006 and still haven't found time to train gunnery. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's not rocket science.... *ahem* -¼_-¼
CCP did this to force people to train up Hybrids so that they get a better chance of being used. Along with the buff to Hybrid specs this is just the first phase of refocusing a lot of Caldari pilots towards Hybrids. After feedback and subsequent updates I am sure they will be awesome. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
251
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gah, my eyes.
There are some amazing things (such as newline characters, punctuation marks, and the difference between homonyms) that you might want to learn to work into your writing. They really do improve the presentation of your idea. |
Lovejoy II
Lovejoy's Operations
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caldari is already arguably the easiest race to train and fly effectively. And it's not like the other races have multiple weapon skills to train.... |
Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
31
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
I read up until you mentioned blasters.
Caldari favor Railguns.
Listen closely. I have flown in Naga fleets, and small roaming gangs. When done properly, the Naga is an amazing ship that just destroys everything in its path. If they were torp or cruise, it would not work.
The flight time is so much that the Nagas would not have the quick kill that they possess, and it would be a terrible ship. How bad? Look at the Talos, a short range-focused ship. It's not popular because the tank isn't enough for its lack of range. |
Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
first off caldari do not favor railguns. you would know this if you had played longer than a day. none of you who posted so far know what ccp has done to the caldari over the years. we have been nerfed time and time again. but yet minimal nerfs have occured to the other 3 races. i have been there for alote of them. and for you non caldari pilots you do not see the impact as i do. when the effectivness of your weapons get slammed to a piont where no missle is effective any more, than you would be upset as well. and for my grammer. stay on subject i dont need a lesson in typing for i really dont care. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
201
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Posted - 2011.12.14 18:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Caldari are (at last check) roughly 50/50 missile/hybrid (although they favour rails over blasters).
It just so happens that for whatever reason, Caldari pilots seem to feel that "Missiles are the only way to go". This has probably been perpetuated by the simple facts a. Hybrids have been broken for a *long* time b. Missions are stupidly easy in the Kestrel >> ? >> Drake >> Raven progression. |
Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
i will correct myself. my last statement was misrepresented, railguns are favored by caldari but i posted in responce that they are not favored over missles |
Averyia
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 18:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
... You means why would CCP provide a useful weapon to the new Naga instead of the less useful (or useless) weapon that are currently plaguing the Caldari Battleships (I'm looking at you Raven). |
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Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2011.12.14 18:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Given there are already viable missile platforms for the Caldari, and given the intent of the Tier 3 BCs (high damage, low tank platforms that are more maneuverable than a BS), the hybrid Naga fits the niche well. One major issue to consider, is what role would a missile Naga really play? The low tank would limit it's viability in PvE, and a missile platform would be undesirable as an agile (relatively) dps platform in PvP. Additionally, there are already viable PvE missile platforms in the game, where as a missile Naga would lag behind its turret based counterparts in PvP. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
18
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Posted - 2011.12.14 19:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Caldari are (at last check) roughly 50/50 missile/hybrid (although they favour rails over blasters).
It just so happens that for whatever reason, Caldari pilots seem to feel that "Missiles are the only way to go". This has probably been perpetuated by the simple facts a. Hybrids have been broken for a *long* time b. Missions are stupidly easy in the Kestrel >> ? >> Drake >> Raven progression.
the missing link is (usually) the Caracal, as that is the missilew---- of the cruisers.
the Galente are also 50/50, but with drones and hybrids (favoring blasters), and I figured the Talos would be the forgotten child because of the Galente desire to either sic minions after their enemies or murder their enemy's face at point-blank range. It would be the ship that you'd have a pair sitting back, and when the fleet is having trouble with one guy you have them warp to the interceptor.
getting back to the topic, the Naga is actually a breath of fresh air in the Caldari line-up of ships that are either missiles or near-useless. Or at least hybrids were near-useless for the longest time. Though it must be said that a vulture was able to deliver a decent hit to a cynabal at 90km and with close-range ammo before the guns were fixed.
If I remember correctly (yes, I can't keep focused very well), both the Naga and Talos give bonuses to large HYBRIDS and not Rails or Blasters. So you can have that blaster Naga or that rail Talos and get somewhere, like a Hyperion or Megathron with rails or a Rokh with blasters. Where the science gets done |
Sentar Manar
Hellion Evolution
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 19:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis - Pretty much what i hear you saying is all Caldari have are turret boats, guns are the best thing for everything, there isn't anything better then turrets in the Caldari fleet, and then you think they shouldn't make a good missile ship which is clearly the primary weapon used by Caldari (Case and Point Phoenix uses missiles, Leviathan uses missiles, raven, drake ect)? For the most part turrets are better then missiles. So don't you think a good missile boat would be nice for the Caldari?
Also another problem i see with the Naga being a blaster/rail-gun boat is they use energy, MWD uses energy which you should have if you plan to stay alive. Shield resist/tank will use energy. That means your fitting options are going to extremely limited with it. If it had Torpedo's then that problem would be solved.
And the role the Missile Naga would play is a fast, High DPS, Anti Battleship/Pos weapon. It would certainly need the correct bonuses given to it but it should at least be a missile boat that's even with the other tier 3s in both DPS, Cost and specialized training. Asking all Caldari pilots to train for railguns is just insane. Its clear that the Naga should no doubt be a Missile boat. |
Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
as you all well know missles take a whileto reach there target. but there is supposed to be a trade off to that. more dps. yet ccp has failed on numerous ocasions to boost missle dps. why not. reasons are unkown. any way if you look at the naga as a torp versus a blaster you will se that both the torps and blasters have a range of about 20km max so where is your flight time with missles why do you say it will take forever to hit. if the naga were to have a velocity boost then theres the fix for that. and if your comlaining that the naga needs TP's then add a sig radius bonus to it. the two mods i have just added pail in comparison to the multitude of bonuses the other three ships recieved. and on another note, ccp is setting caldari up for an epic fail. you have the naga a cladari ship which inherintly uses shields to protect itself, which uses cap. and now they have made it a blaster boat which, wait you guessed it uses cap. now thats all saying that you have the skills to fly the t2 version or even the t1 version effectivly. i personally spec in missles and i was never told to stay with the power curve you must trian blasters or hybrids which ever the case may be. i can use the largeg guns now but to get to t2 it would take me 56 days. now in how much time can the other three races perfect there skills while im putsing away trying to just use the guns let alone the ammo or the weapon mods for any type of decent dps. why would ccp make a ship that holds no benifit to the caldari pilots. cause last i checked it may be 50/50 witht the ships but the hybrid ships suck the guns may be better but the ships still suck and for that matter if they wanted to change how pilots flew why didnt the give the other 3 ships there off spec weapons. tornado could be using missles. amarr could use missles. galente could use drones. so dont give me that "ccp is trying to make pilots focus on other weapons to better fly all platforms, thats a load and you know it." all in all this is a big F##k you to caldari as it has been since 2004 when they started nefing us. nerf after nerf we lost abilitys and the other races barely got touched. so stop making excuses for ccp in an area you know nothing about. expecially if you just started playing this game. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
472
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ishtar Starfire wrote:~wall-o-text~ its total disregard for the players needs. ~wall-o-text~
hahahahahahhahahhhahahahahahaha
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CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
28
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Posted - 2011.12.14 20:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Even with the addition of the Naga, hybrid-bonused ships only make up just over a third of the Caldari combat lineup. Making the Naga a turret-only ship was the best thing CCP could have done for Caldari and is hopefully a commitment to improving long-range warfare.
The only hybrid bonused ships in the Caldari T1 lineup are; the Merlin, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, Naga, Rokh, for a total of six. There are only five T2 ships (all from the same manufacturer, except the Raptor which should be Ishukone) that are hybrid bonused as well; the Raptor, Harpy, Falcon, Eagle, and Vulture. Ishukone makes the least amount of T2 ships in the Caldari State and only 2/3 of their models use rails. The Buzzard (which should be Lai Dai) doesn't and neither does the Rhea.
-1 to the OP and everyone that agrees with them. Just because you lack the foresight to train towards these particular ships and the weapon systems they use doesn't mean that the rest of us should be punished for wanting to use our race's alternate weapons system. Missiles are used on practically everything else Caldari (I count 16 missile-bonused ships, more whose slots demand their use). Any perceived shortcomings in missile use will not be fixed by breaking the Naga. Assault Ships - Retribution Fix and Balancing Proposal for Upcoming 4th Bonus |
Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
-1 to the OP and everyone that agrees with them. Just because you lack the foresight to train towards these particular ships and the weapon systems they use doesn't mean that the rest of us should be punished for wanting to use our race's alternate weapons system. Missiles are used on practically everything else Caldari (I count 16 missile-bonused ships, more whose slots demand their use). Any perceived shortcomings in missile use will not be fixed by breaking the Naga.[/quote]
explain to me what alternate weapons are you using on the tier 3 ships from other races. all of them use there primary weapons. do you homework |
Velicitia
Open Designs
201
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
tankus2 wrote:Velicitia wrote:Caldari are (at last check) roughly 50/50 missile/hybrid (although they favour rails over blasters).
It just so happens that for whatever reason, Caldari pilots seem to feel that "Missiles are the only way to go". This has probably been perpetuated by the simple facts a. Hybrids have been broken for a *long* time b. Missions are stupidly easy in the Kestrel >> ? >> Drake >> Raven progression. the missing link is (usually) the Caracal, as that is the missilew---- of the cruisers. the Galente are also 50/50, but with drones and hybrids (favoring blasters), and I figured the Talos would be the forgotten child because of the Galente desire to either sic minions after their enemies or murder their enemy's face at point-blank range. It would be the ship that you'd have a pair sitting back, and when the fleet is having trouble with one guy you have them warp to the interceptor.
Well, we favour drones over hybrids (well, in that you generally see Vexor, Myrmi, Domi, Ishtar as the mission boats) ... but yeah Actually, the Talos is a great ship, if you can get within range (which is the stupidly hard part). Since CCP still hasn't finished with the hybrid/Gallente balancing yet, it may turn out to be better than people are giving it credit for.
tankus2 wrote: If I remember correctly (yes, I can't keep focused very well), both the Naga and Talos give bonuses to large HYBRIDS and not Rails or Blasters. So you can have that blaster Naga or that rail Talos and get somewhere, like a Hyperion or Megathron with rails or a Rokh with blasters.
Yes, you're completely correct here. However the bonuses (range for Naga, tracking for Talos) are what "define" them as the railgun/blaster platform... not that having more range on blasters or more tracking on rails would be a "bad" thing. |
CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
28
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ishtar Starfire wrote:explain to me what alternate weapons are you using on the tier 3 ships from other races. all of them use there primary weapons. do you homework For one, you fail at quoting.
Two, every race has an alternate weapon system that is used to varying degrees and no, not necessarily on the tier-3 battlecruisers. The Talos has drones, which are the Gallente alternate system but they're not bonused here.
The fact is that if the Naga used missiles, the primary weapon system of the Caldari, it would die horribly in a fire every damn time. The low-tank stipulation of tier-3 BC demands the use of instantaneous damage. The only way to accomplish that with Caldari is to use hybrid turrets. The Talos and Naga have IDENTICAL turret damage output before mods - what disadvantage are you so worked up about? Oh right, because you can't use it yet and are butthurt about it. Assault Ships - Retribution Fix and Balancing Proposal for Upcoming 4th Bonus |
Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ishtar Starfire wrote:first off caldari do not favor railguns. you would know this if you had played longer than a day. none of you who posted so far know what ccp has done to the caldari over the years. we have been nerfed time and time again. but yet minimal nerfs have occured to the other 3 races. i have been there for alote of them. and for you non caldari pilots you do not see the impact as i do. when the effectivness of your weapons get slammed to a piont where no missle is effective any more, than you would be upset as well. and for my grammer. stay on subject i dont need a lesson in typing for i really dont care. I've been playing since 06, my main is caldari.
shut up. |
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Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
31
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 20:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP: "keeping in line with caldari tier progression..."
Bantam -> kessie -> merlin osprey -> caracal -> moa scorpion -> raven -> rokh ferox -> drake -> Naga
What a bunch of whiny little saps. Get over it, a missile naga would SUCK. Fly one and you'll understand. |
tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
heh, all three third-tier ships (before Naga) are gunboats :D
Though yea, a missile naga would be frowned upon in the same way that the pheonix is frowned upon in the dreadnaught community. Where the science gets done |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Everyone, including the OP is missing the main problem here.
Tier 3 bc's are primarily pvp ships. The Naga was obviously made a turret boat because of the short comings of missiles in pvp.
The only time missiles are effective in pvp is when the entire fleet are missile boats and the fleet must be well balanced for tank. Very rarely is gank an option for missile fleets.
My point is that the Naga wasn't made a turret boat because Caldari needed another turret option, or that CCP wants Caldari pilots to cross train in turrets.
It's because Missiles are inneffective in pvp except in the case of a pure missile fleet or in the case of stealth bombers, but even they are only effective because of the bombs themselves and once the bomb is gone the stealth bomber has worn out its effectiveness.
Personally i feel as if CCP has made the Naga a turret boat because of their innattentiveness towards missiles needing to be rebalanced. Instead of looking at the Naga and saying "missiles really need to be rebalanced to be more effective in pvp", they looked at the Naga and said "Missiles are kinda inneffective in pvp, so lets just put hybrids on it."
The case is simple. Balance missiles, and balancing missiles is simple.
1) Greatly Increase Velocity 2) Greatly reduce flight time 3) Balance Acceleration time so that missiles still have the same range they do now.
In doing this several possitive outcomes will happen with no negative outcome.
1) Missiles will initiate dps much quicker, thus allowing missile boats to be more effective in pvp. 2) Missile volleys will no longer be waisted because they will hit a target at max flight range before the end of the cycle 3) Missiles can become a pure Caldari weapon, leaving Gallente with Hybrids.
Now some people may argue that this will make missile boats more Powerful. No it won't.
I'll even set an example for you. Lets say you have the current missile variables. You have a target at 0km and a target at 60km, have a cycle time of 10 seconds, velocity of 5km/s, and a flight time of 12 seconds (not putting in accel time in this example and factoring this on stationary targets) Now, you fire a volley on the target 0km away and instantly hit it initiating dps and doing the same damage every 10 seconds. Now, you start volleys on the target 60km away. 10 seconds after you fire the first volley another volley fires. 2 seconds later the first volley hits the target initiating dps and now every 10 seconds a volley will hit the target giving missiles the exact same dps against the exact same target reguardless of range.
Now, if you were to make my changes and now you had a missile velocity of 30km/s and a flight time of 2 seconds with a 10 second cycle time, you will still instantly hit the target 0km away for the exact same dps, but you'll be engaging the target 60km away in 2 seconds instead of 12, but still be doing the exact same dps as any other situation. This is all the same because the speed of the missile does not determine the dps done to the target. If the explosion velocity, and explosion radius remain the same then your dps will be the exact same, it will just take less time to initiate that dps.
The main problem with missiles is waisted volleys and ships being able to run out of range before the missile reaches them. This is what make missiles inneffective in pvp. However, if you take my suggested changes missiles will be much more effective but still have the same dps, and ships that can go a few km per second will still be able to outrun the explosion velocity in order to negate any dps. So again, missiles simply become more effective in the time in takes to engage targets at long range and with less waisted volleys, but still be the same general concept as far as dps and weaknesses.
The only other aspect of Eve that would need to be changed to react to this is defender missiles. They will need to be much much faster and engage the missiles on point instead of chasing missiles like they do now. A simple way to cure this would be simply to remove defendors as a missile platform and instead make them a turret. However, I don't think they should rely on any other skills in order to be effective, such as tracking or what not. This is so that both turret and missile boat pilots can train and use them without having to cross train several other support skills as well. This would mean that instead of defendors having an engagement time on target and having to chase their target, they will be turrets and be able to engage and destroy instantly, or perhaps they can just make them flares or something.
My overall point here is that the problem isn't that the Naga should be a missile boat, it isn't that the Naga should be a turret boat, it's simply that their wouldn't be any wonders or questions to whether Caldari was missile or turret and there wouldnt' be a question to why the Naga didn't have missiles if CCP would just quit sitting on their hands and balance missiles to be more effective in pvp. It's a simple fix. Just do it already. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
To the previous poster: with the faster missile change you're basically making it a turretboat.
I like the naga because finally it gives the Caldari a hybrid using ship that's good in its' intended role. I as caldari pilot with max missile skills am finally training hybrids because there's now a caldari hybrid using ship that doesn't suck.
The reason that most caldari pilots can't shoot hybrids is because the rokh is better with mining lasers, they had to add an extra turret to the ferox and it still sucked, a tech 3 with a totally useless subsystem. No, previously there weren't any caldari hybrid using ships that any pilot in their right mind would use.
Now there is. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Velicitia wrote: Frigs Bantam -- 2 Turret (Mining bonuses) Condor -- 2 launcher / 1 Turret (missile bonuses) Griffin -- 2 Launcher / 1 Turret (EWAR bonuses) Heron -- 2 Launcher / 1 Turret (Missile Kinetic Dmg and Scanning bonuses) Kestrel -- 4 Launcher (Missile Bonuses) Merlin -- 2 Launcher / 2 Turret (Hybrid Bonuses)
Cruisers Blackbird -- 3 Launcher / 3 Turret (EWAR bonuses) Caracal -- 5 Launcher / 2 Turret (Missile Bonuses) Moa -- 5 Turret (Hybrid Bonuses) Osprey -- 2 Launcher / 3 Turret (Mining Bonuses)
Battlecruisers Drake -- 7 Launcher (Missile Bonus) Ferox -- 5 Launcher / 6 Turret (Hybrid Bonus) Naga -- 8 Turret (Hybrid Bonus)
Battleships Raven -- 6 Launcher / 4 Turret (Missile Bonus) Rokh -- 4 Launcher / 8 Turret (Hybrid Bonus) Scorpion -- 4 Launcher / 4 Turret (EWAR Bonus)
Of 16 T1 ships 6 of them have some kind of missile bonuses 5 of them have hybrid bonuses 5 of them have EWAR/Mining (and no Missile/Hybrid bonuses)
So, ignoring the 5 that have neither bonus, it was a 60/40 split ... and now it's approx 45/55.
This is good, but you can't base them being a missile or turret boat off their bonuses, but instead, base them off what they can fit so that you can determine the true balance of missiles to turrets. So...
Frigates (t for turret m for missile) Bantam - 2t Condor - 2m 1t Griffin - 2m 1t Heron - 2m 1t Kestel - 4m Merlin - 2m 2t
Cruisers Blackbird - 3m 3t Caracal - 5m 2t Moa - 2m 5t Osprey - 2m 3t
Battlecruisers Drake - 7m Ferox - 5m 6t Naga - 8t
Battleships Raven - 6m 4t Rokh - 4m 8t Scorpion - 4m 4t
Now, if you look at it this way, then you have 8 that are primarily missile boats, 5 that are primarily turret boats, and 3 that can go either way. However, when you look at those 3 ships, they're ewar ships, so they're able to pick either turrets or missiles to fit into either fleet type. One thing you also have to look at is the boats that are either limited to specifically missiles, or predominetely missiles are also quite inneffective in pvp, such as the caracal, drake, and raven.
Basically what I'm saying is it may be possible that the only reason there are turret boats in the caldari line up may simply be on part with what I said about missiles being inneffective in pvp. |
Ishtar Starfire
Dark Wing Armada Wonder Kids
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 21:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
@sjugar i agree with you on that note but look at it this way. you must now spend 60 plus days at base hybrid skills to be able to use the guns. then you must learn the skills to hav better tracking and target prediction. so in total your looking at almost 3 months of training all the while the other races are dominating the field. and to you others that say missles are inefective in combat that turrets are better. both the hybrid and torps have about the same range. and both setups would be considered glass cannons. at close range those missles are going to hit you regardless and within very short time |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 22:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sjugar wrote:To the previous poster: with the faster missile change you're basically making it a turretboat.
I like the naga because finally it gives the Caldari a hybrid using ship that's good in its' intended role. I as caldari pilot with max missile skills am finally training hybrids because there's now a caldari hybrid using ship that doesn't suck.
The reason that most caldari pilots can't shoot hybrids is because the rokh is better with mining lasers, they had to add an extra turret to the ferox and it still sucked, a tech 3 with a totally useless subsystem. No, previously there weren't any caldari hybrid using ships that any pilot in their right mind would use.
Now there is.
Well of course the would be more like turrets... Do you think you could balance missiles more for pvp by making them more like bombs??
Now, you may like the Naga as is because it is good at it's intended role, but if missiles were balanced the way I suggest, then with missiles it would still be good at it's intended role. Hell, it might even be better because it wouldn't have the limits you get from optimal range and tracking.
Now, as far as your comment to Caldari using hybrids early on. Personally, I feel that it would be better to remove hybrids from the Caldari and make them pure missile boat pilots and balance missiles the way I'm suggesting. this would mean that Caldari can be effective against the other races without having to mimic what the other races do in order to be able to compete.
Caldari are the only race that is unable to compete in pvp with their intended primary weapon, so instead of CCP balancing Caldari weapons, they mimic'd the Gallente to allow Caldari to be effective, but to change it up, they made the Caldari a blaster bs instead of a rail bs, and made a rail bc instead of a blaster bc. Oh, caldari are real original now.
Simply by balancing missiles Caldari can become their own race with their own benefits and flaws, but still be capable of everything the other races can't do but be able to do it without being cut and paste versions of another ship, but with a different skin. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 22:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ishtar Starfire wrote: and to you others that say missles are inefective in combat that turrets are better. both the hybrid and torps have about the same range. and both setups would be considered glass cannons. at close range those missles are going to hit you regardless and within very short time
This is true, however, the turret will hit it's target instantly doing damage, the missile on the other hand will have to travel quite a distance before it hits the target. In doing so, you face 2 issues. 1) The target is moving and manages to move just out of the flight range of the missile before it can make it there. 2) If you have a volley flying at the target and another volley behind it, then the first volley hits and destroys the target, now you have a waisted volley in the air that is going to hit nothing, cost isk, but also waist a cycle so that you have more time until you're able to engage the next target.
Now, your comment to missiles hitting at short range and in a short period of time. You're basically saying that missiles are purfectly fine at close range. This is true, but should not be the case. Missiles are designed to be able to do the same dps at their max range as they are at 0km. However, in pvp they become inneffective the firther away the target gets.
Say 1 on 1 a golem takes on a snip fitted Kronos and they both have a range of 150km.(just an example don't hound me cause I'm incorrect on what they can do). Now, we'll say they're both fitted to have that same dps. We'll also say just for the sake of saying that they both have the same cycle time and the same dps per volley. This is just to balance everything out a bit. Now, we'll say that the golem missiles go 5km/s. Now, that golem and that Kronos both begin to fire at the same time. The Kronos is going to instantly initiate dps on the golem and going to hit it every 10 seconds. However, the golem is going to hit the Kronos in 30 seconds, and once that 30 seconds reaches, the golem will begin to do the same dps every 10 seconds. Now, that may not seem too bad, but when you factor that the Kronos can Hit the golem for the same dps 3 times before the golem even hit it once, this is going to make a huge difference in the battle. This means the Kronos will always be 3 shots ahead of the golem, giving it a quite unfair advantage, and assuming they're both capable of the same tank, then the golem will go down and the Kronos will be able to warp out while the golem pilot still has 2 or 3 volley in the air that would have been enough to destroy the Kronos had the dps been initiated much sooner, but allas, it wasn't so the kronos was able to destroy the golem and warp out before the last of the damage could reach it.
So yeah, I'd have to say that the greater the range gets, the worse off it is for missiles. However, turrets may be weaker at close range than missiles, but they also have the option to fit close range turrets that are even more devistating than close range missiles. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 22:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
The drake is not ineffective at pvp, missiles are not ineffective at pvp. |
Mr Painless
Temnava Legion TEMNAVA
21
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Posted - 2011.12.14 22:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
@Ishtar Starfire:
To recapitulate, you are making 3 points why Naga should be missile, and not turret ship.
1. You didn't bother to train gunnery. In 5 years you play EVE. That's your fail, not CCP's.
2. Missiles (and therefore Caldari) are nerfed ad infinum over the years, and suck for PvP. So why then do you want them on Naga? At least hybrids got buffed this time.
3. You claim that tier 3 BC are designed to use their race's primary weapon. CCP never released any information which supports this, therefore your claim is completely arbitrary. I could just as arbitrarily claim that tier 3 BCs are designed to be gunboats, so hybrid Naga makes perfect sense.
BTW, this is my main, and it's Caldari. |
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