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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1213
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:11:32 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone is probably familiar to some extent, with the Great Caldari Hero Tibus Heth.
However, the question has to be asked.
Is Tibus Heth a great hero of the State ? Or the greatest hero of the State ?
Let us consider the evidence.
From a lowly background, Tibus Heth, through a process of self-improvement, moved up the corporate ladder, winning the "Employee of the Month" award in the process. Which is in the finest traditions of the Caldari culture.
During the Piak Incident, when Caldari Constructions employees rioted against inefficient business practices, Tibus Heth came to the attention of the interstellar community, by heroically rescuing a wounded co-worker, which again, is in the finest traditions of the Caldari culture.
Following the Malkalen Outrage, when treacherous Gallente Navy units attacked innocent Caldari civilians on the Ishukone station, Tibus Heth, through skilful rhetoric, became in effect, a dictator of the Caldari State, and used that position to begin social reforms, to increase efficiency.
Again, increasing efficiency is in the finest traditions of the Caldari culture.
Tibus Heth also achieved something that was previously thought improbable - the recovery of Caldari Prime, the ancestral home of the Caldari, from the illegally occupying Gallente, who had seized it in an act of infamous treachery, during the First War of Gallente Aggression Against The Caldari People, which was when the Caldari seceded from the oppressive Federation.
Recovering Caldari Prime is, again, in the finest traditions of the Caldari.
Tibus Heth also achieved brilliant political manoeuvrings in territory formerly held by the Gallente, such as Placid, which was heroically captured by the State Protectorate, during the Second War of Gallente Aggression Against The Caldari People, or, as the Gallente ludicrously call it, "the Empyrean Wars". These political manoeuvrings led to the downfall of the then Gallente President, the infamous war criminal Souro Foiritan, whose xenophobic sentiments were behind the Second War of Gallente Aggression, of which the Malkalen Outrage was merely the opening move.
Causing the downfall of Gallente politicians, is of course, in the finest traditions of the Caldari.
So, as we can clearly see, many of Tibus Heth's actions were in the finest traditions of the Caldari people.
So, great hero, or greatest hero ?
It is clear, that there is a substantial case for Tibus Heth being the Greatest Caldari Hero.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
853
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:18:04 -
[2] - Quote
I think you made Diana Kim's day..... |
morion
Lighting Build
52
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just dump the A.I. and get real ... |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
846
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:34:32 -
[4] - Quote
How many ships can a ship toaster toast when a ship toaster ship toasts ships?
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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morion
Lighting Build
52
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:35:12 -
[5] - Quote
12 years ago these made up nothing NPC meant something there so old ...
Let us play . |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2319
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Posted - 2016.01.13 03:10:55 -
[6] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote: Tibus Heth also achieved something that was previously thought improbable - the recovery of Caldari Prime, the ancestral home of the Caldari, from the illegally occupying Gallente, who had seized it in an act of infamous treachery, during the First War of Gallente Aggression Against The Caldari People, which was when the Caldari seceded from the oppressive Federation.
An excellent material and understanding of Caldari culture. Thank you.
Though I'd like to add one small detail, that becomes rather significant in consideration of how great Tibus Heth was as a hero.
During the liberation of Caldari Prime from gallente occupants Tibus Heth himself has descended to the planet and was fighting with regular soldiers just like a regular soldier. Being a megacorporate CEO and de-facto leader of the whole State he wasn't sitting in his cabinet, waiting for results of the operation. He was there, together with all the others loyal Caldari people, risking his life for what was important for all of us.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Kador Ouryon
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
79
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Posted - 2016.01.13 03:21:48 -
[7] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Valerie Valate wrote: Tibus Heth also achieved something that was previously thought improbable - the recovery of Caldari Prime, the ancestral home of the Caldari, from the illegally occupying Gallente, who had seized it in an act of infamous treachery, during the First War of Gallente Aggression Against The Caldari People, which was when the Caldari seceded from the oppressive Federation.
An excellent material and understanding of Caldari culture. Thank you. Though I'd like to add one small detail, that becomes rather significant in consideration of how great Tibus Heth was as a hero. During the liberation of Caldari Prime from gallente occupants Tibus Heth himself has descended to the planet and was fighting with regular soldiers just like a regular soldier. Being a megacorporate CEO and de-facto leader of the whole State he wasn't sitting in his cabinet, waiting for results of the operation. He was there, together with all the others loyal Caldari people, risking his life for what was important for all of us.
I remember talking to people who were there on the planet when the Shigeru went down, a few old, quirky mercs who operated exclusively for the State during the invasion.
Sadly they didn't get to see him or ask for his autograph.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
976
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Posted - 2016.01.13 03:36:41 -
[8] - Quote
Morion, what the slaver's bollocks are you on about and how are anything you are talking about relevant to this thread?
Also, if you want to dump the AI and suffer from having your ship take three minutes to target lock anything and a full minute to calculate the firing solution for each of your turrets or launchers or having your drones sit dead in the water on grid, then be my guest.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2320
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Posted - 2016.01.13 03:48:11 -
[9] - Quote
Kador Ouryon wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Valerie Valate wrote: Tibus Heth also achieved something that was previously thought improbable - the recovery of Caldari Prime, the ancestral home of the Caldari, from the illegally occupying Gallente, who had seized it in an act of infamous treachery, during the First War of Gallente Aggression Against The Caldari People, which was when the Caldari seceded from the oppressive Federation.
An excellent material and understanding of Caldari culture. Thank you. Though I'd like to add one small detail, that becomes rather significant in consideration of how great Tibus Heth was as a hero. During the liberation of Caldari Prime from gallente occupants Tibus Heth himself has descended to the planet and was fighting with regular soldiers just like a regular soldier. Being a megacorporate CEO and de-facto leader of the whole State he wasn't sitting in his cabinet, waiting for results of the operation. He was there, together with all the others loyal Caldari people, risking his life for what was important for all of us. I remember talking to people who were there on the planet when the Shigeru went down, a few old, quirky mercs who operated exclusively for the State during the invasion. Sadly they didn't get to see him or ask for his autograph. Probably I should send you a history textbook so you could next time distinguish events that happened seven and two years ago. Not sure though they have appeared in history textbooks yet...
Meanwhile I would recommend you to cease commenting on the topics that you lack information about. I don't think your superiors will be happy to know you are disgracing your corporation in such a way.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Malasar Ravaan
House Ravaan Imperial Holdings
1
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:21:21 -
[10] - Quote
morion wrote:12 years ago these made up nothing NPC meant something there so old ...
Let us play .
Quote:1. In Character Absolutely no out of character (OOC) comments or references are allowed on this forum. This is the only forum where players can immerse themselves completely in role-play. |
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Morgan Wulver
State Protectorate Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2016.01.13 18:57:40 -
[11] - Quote
Is this satire? Because I really want to like this post but I'm sure that it's satire. I mean sure, he turned Haatakan into his personal mind-broke life-doll for a few months, but overall it was the IDEA of Tibus that mattered. Right? Right?
Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7918
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Posted - 2016.01.13 19:03:41 -
[12] - Quote
There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing.
I'd say it's fair to say that Heth's early rise was heroic, laudable, and brought glory to the State. His fall was tragic, and wholy his own doing.
He is, ultimately, a tragic figure, I'd say.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1214
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Posted - 2016.01.13 19:16:30 -
[13] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:He is, ultimately, a tragic figure, I'd say.
So, you side with "Great Caldari Hero", rather than "Greatest Caldari Hero" ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7919
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Posted - 2016.01.13 19:18:02 -
[14] - Quote
I would say, 'Caldari cautionary tale,' because I usually like plan C.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Yarosara Ruil
Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2016.01.13 19:42:53 -
[15] - Quote
Heroes that live long enough tend to become villains themselves, and there was no greater hero than Admiral Tovil-Toba, who gave his life to free the State from Gallente oppression. I've memorized all his tactics in the war and pratice them with small-scale models every week. The man was a genius in battle.
Tibus Heth on the other hand had the unfortunate fate of trying to achieve too much with the litle time he had left, yet lived long enough to be considered a villain. Both tragic and ironic. |
Kador Ouryon
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
82
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Posted - 2016.01.13 22:23:36 -
[16] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Probably I should send you a history textbook so you could next time distinguish events that happened seven and two years ago. Not sure though they have appeared in history textbooks yet...
Meanwhile I would recommend you to cease commenting on the topics that you lack information about. I don't think your superiors will be happy to know you are disgracing your corporation in such a way.
I'll certainly apologise for the very superficial mistake of misinterpreting which of the two conflicts you were referring to however I won't tolerate your criticism my service to and the service of the Classiarii.
Even if you are a mutual friend of one of my brothers in arms, Templares Vadam, we will be having words Commander Kim to resolve this matter to a mutually agreeable solution. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5833
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Posted - 2016.01.13 22:44:17 -
[17] - Quote
Caldari Hero with a tragic fall, I'd say.
Sobaseki, Tovil-Toba, Yanala and Gariushi are greater Caldari heroes, in my opinion.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
530
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Posted - 2016.01.13 23:01:07 -
[18] - Quote
Tovil-Toba is a name that's spoken with reverence among my people and clan. An example of a man who did what had to be done for his people. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5833
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 23:13:47 -
[19] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Tovil-Toba is a name that's spoken with reverence among my people and clan. An example of a man who did what had to be done for his people.
Getting told that tale is one of my earliest memories as a child. I was once selected to give the order "Non-essential personnel to the lifeboats. Take the ship down into the atmosphere." during the recitation and it was the highlight of my year. I remember buzzing with pride that I'd been picked.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Haria Haritimado
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
121
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Posted - 2016.01.14 09:37:43 -
[20] - Quote
Dear Pilots,
Over and over again, Tibus Heth becomes object to lively and dedicated discussions (and rhetorical disguises, it seems). What still affects me is that he was, in his time, propably riding the waves of Caldari history like no one else. In some way he seems to me like he had to bear the fate of being the embodiment of a certain world reason of that time. I agree with others above, this makes him a tragic figure. And there lies greatness within that, which differs from just being a hero. He's a source of harsh criticism and corporate pride. He demands us to quarrel and self-reflect.
The Great or Greatest is a nice catchphrase. I would like to bend the topic just a little bit and call him a great figure of Caldari history.
Sincerely,
Haria Haritimado
Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2330
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Posted - 2016.01.14 10:29:26 -
[21] - Quote
Kador Ouryon wrote:Diana Kim wrote: Probably I should send you a history textbook so you could next time distinguish events that happened seven and two years ago. Not sure though they have appeared in history textbooks yet...
Meanwhile I would recommend you to cease commenting on the topics that you lack information about. I don't think your superiors will be happy to know you are disgracing your corporation in such a way.
I'll certainly apologise for the very superficial mistake of misinterpreting which of the two conflicts you were referring to however I won't tolerate your criticism my service to and the service of the Classiarii. Even if you are a mutual friend of one of my brothers in arms, Templares Vadam, we will be having words Commander Kim to resolve this matter to a mutually agreeable solution. Will look forward to it.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2330
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Posted - 2016.01.14 10:34:24 -
[22] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing. I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari.
She has lost her honor when she was caught on her lies and disgraced herself even further, behaving like a coward who can't stand for her words. (Ref.: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 )
Makoto isn't the person whose opinion should be taken into consideration when discussing Greatest Caldari Heroes. Cowards like Makoto Priano will never understand peoples with Caldari spirit.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Ophelia Lemm
Electric Sheep Independent Entrepreneurs
69
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Posted - 2016.01.14 11:53:15 -
[23] - Quote
Historical figures of this magnitude rarely (pretty much never) turn out to be as good-doing and selfless as government-approved holoreels claim them to be. People who actually try to learn truth about their idols, beyond what "written by the victors" part of history can provide, often find themselves thoroughly dissapointed and broken-hearted. And majority does not even try. It is convinient, after all, to believe an illusion you make of someone insted of knowing bitter truth of their real motivations, goals, and methods. That's basically how propaganda works.
Make no mistake - I'm not here co claim anyhting about Tibus Heth, or anyone for that matter. It's just that this whole talk feels rather one-sided. I suppose you people know the caldari perspective - good for you. It`s a bit sad though that this is where you willing to stop. After all truth is a result of dispute, not bickering. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2330
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Posted - 2016.01.14 12:19:32 -
[24] - Quote
Ophelia Lemm wrote:Historical figures of this magnitude rarely (pretty much never) turn out to be as good-doing and selfless as government-approved holoreels claim them to be. People who actually try to learn truth about their idols, beyond what "written by the victors" part of history can provide, often find themselves thoroughly dissapointed and broken-hearted. And majority does not even try. It is convinient, after all, to believe an illusion you make of someone instead of knowing bitter truth of their real motivations, goals, and methods. That's basically how propaganda works.
Make no mistake - I'm not here co claim anyhting about Tibus Heth, or anyone for that matter. It's just that this whole talk feels rather one-sided. I suppose you people know the caldari perspective - good for you. It`s a bit sad though that this is where you willing to stop. After all truth is a result of dispute, not bickering. Truth can never be found by simple disputing. To learn the truth one must study the facts.
For example, facts, that Tibus Heth was really selfless man, who was even risking fighting unarmed against armed guards to prevent Caldari blood from spilling, who was known to live a life of a simple worker while being de-facto leader of the whole State without descending into luxury and hedonism like gallentean swines do.
As for not-Caldari point of view, Tibus Heth was the Caldari and Patriot, and his merits are to be measured from Caldari points of view and should be looked at through the prism of Caldari culture and traditions. Otherwise his actions could be seen... misunderstood.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Ophelia Lemm
Electric Sheep Independent Entrepreneurs
69
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Posted - 2016.01.14 12:34:24 -
[25] - Quote
It is convinient to believe, not to know, indeed.
Gallente being swines appears to be your only argument so far. A pity. Makes me wonder, why talk about it on public forums then - if all you want is for everyone to accept your opinion. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7922
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Posted - 2016.01.14 14:10:04 -
[26] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing. I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari.
Ah, Kim! Just the person I was expecting.
I regret to inform you that everything I said a matter of historical record. Why, I even had an attach+¬ draw up a list of Galnet links to be cited. Consider this, capsuleers, a lesson on recent history.
In chronological order, on the claim of, 'his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised.' Home Guard and Providence Directorate both were under Heth's command.
YC115.02.27 - REPORTS OF UNREST AMONG KAALAKIOTA FACTORY WORKERS YC115.03.01 - HOME GUARD AND STATE PEACEKEEPERS ATTACK DEFENSELESS PROTESTORS; CONCORD INTERVENES TOO LATE YC115.03.05 - NUMEROUS CALDARI MANAGEMENT RESIGN; HETH PROMISES GÇ£SIGNIFICANT INVESTIGATIONSGÇ¥ YC115.03.10 - PROVISTS ARREST AT LEAST FIVE EXECUTIVES, SUPPOSED FEDERATION OPERATIVES
In chronological order, on the claim of Heth's 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld.' Also of note is his personally lying about Admiral Yanala's fate, and his offering her tea for not destroying the Caldari homeworld.
YC115.03.19 - LUMINAIRE SITUATION STILL UNSTABLE, REVERED CALDARI ADMIRAL CALLED BACK INTO SERVICE YC115.03.19 - ADMIRAL YANALA GIVES FIRST WEEKLY ADDRESS FROM ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME YC115.05.11 - CEP AND CALDARI NAVY TO INVESTIGATE CALDARI PRIME EVENTS YC115.05.17 - SHIIGERU TELEMETRY DATA VINDICATES ADMIRAL YANALA YC115.05.20 - ADMIRAL YANALA BEING WIDELY HAILED AS A HERO YC115.05.22 - REPORT: ADMIRAL YANALA'S CLONE FAILED TO ACTIVATE YC115.05.23 - CEP TO QUESTION EXECUTIVE OFFICER MININELA ERINEN UNDER OATH YC115.05.25 - BREAKING NEWS: YANALA FORCED INTO TEA MAKER CEREMONY YC115.05.27 - VIGILS FOR YANALA TURN VIOLENT YC115.05.27 - TIBUS HETH'S YANALA SPEECH CUT SHORT BY RIOT YC115.06.13 - PRIVATE FUNERAL HELD FOR VISERA YANALA; MEGACORP CEOS ATTEND
In chronological order, on the claim of 'Heth's nearly bankrupting KK.'
YC115.05.05 - Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Naoko Kanaka
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
3
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Posted - 2016.01.14 14:14:28 -
[27] - Quote
I believe the kids in TISHU would respond to the above post and its intended recipient with a "RIP." |
Keta Lindur
Tyrathlion Interstellar Rote Kapelle
19
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Posted - 2016.01.14 14:16:17 -
[28] - Quote
Naoko Kanaka wrote:I believe the kids in TISHU would respond to the above post and its intended recipient with a "RIP."
From what I've heard via alliance communications and the periodic camera drone feed, you've forgotten "****ing savage" and "sick burn".
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7922
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Posted - 2016.01.14 14:16:31 -
[29] - Quote
Indeed, Kanaka-haani.
It is also worth noting that Heth-guri is indeed an outlaw in the State.
As I said before, it's fair to say that Heth's early rise was heroic, laudable, and brought glory to the State. His fall was tragic, and wholly his own doing.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2330
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Posted - 2016.01.14 14:26:09 -
[30] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing. I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari. Ah, Kim! Just the person I was expecting. I regret to inform you that everything I said a matter of historical record. Why, I even had an attach+¬ draw up a list of Galnet links to be cited. Consider this, capsuleers, a lesson on recent history. I have just linked what you have said and where you were clearly lying, failing to prove your point or stand for your words. That makes your claim that "everything you say is a matter of historical record" invalid. Since at least one of what you were saying were proven to be lie, there shall be NO trust to any of your other words afterwards.
In other words, only a complete idiot would trust your words, coward liar Makoto Priano. You have lost your honor and you have no place in discussion about Caldari. And on that point every your word can be discarded, except news links. But again, news links without your words could be simply ignored, since... well, yes. Because they are irrelevant to the discussion.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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