Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 74 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:20:38 -
[1891] - Quote
oh god smugness overload |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33280
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:21:50 -
[1892] - Quote
Natsuko can't hear you, they're playing Blade & Soul.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1896
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:24:00 -
[1893] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Not so much talking about the price, more talking about your inability to understand the reasons some of us don't like the general idea. Now you will get to live with the consequences of your way of thinking, as the feature you were so gung ho about does nothing you wanted to and benefits ...folks like me who otherwise would not have benefitted.
Like I said, the Character Bazaar was balanced by it's faults and the fact that it is a necessary evil (against illegal character trading). Wise folk understand that trying to legitimize and monetize something that only exists as a necessary evil turns that thing into nothing but an 'actual evil'. In this case, the rich will get richer, the poor and new will suffer (as the gap between them and folks like me that can speed up training with a couple of injectors per month).
You would have seen it coming had you not been so obstinate. I understand the reasons many didn't like it.
Their still rooted in the same false overvaluation of SP and the attempts to twist a sense of fairness from a mechanically enforced inequality. This doesn't change that.
Further you're back to your imaginings about some advantage I would have anticipated you wouldn't get when again I've on several posts stated there is plenty of room for vet use, before the 80m+ bracket got boosted.
You still speak about the Bazaar being necessary You for some reason seem to not think it was already a monetization of an "evil" You don't actually understand what I expected from vets regardless of the price You think CCPs pricing actually validates the objections of those who overvalue SP
And yet none of this is actually the case. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:44:12 -
[1894] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Natsuko can't hear you, they're playing Blade & Soul. my remark was actually directed at Jenn but things worked out ok I guess
Tyberius Franklin wrote:They're still rooted in the same false overvaluation of SP and the attempts to twist a sense of fairness from a mechanically enforced inequality. wow those sound like very bad people, it's a good thing ccp didn't listen to them |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1896
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:46:49 -
[1895] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:They're still rooted in the same false overvaluation of SP and the attempts to twist a sense of fairness from a mechanically enforced inequality. wow those sound like very bad people, it's a good thing ccp didn't listen to them Indeed, though it's unfortunate that they still found a way to avoid achieving their stated goals.
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 05:59:55 -
[1896] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:it's unfortunate that they still found a way to avoid achieving their stated goals. truly, no-one could have anticipated this |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1896
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 06:04:09 -
[1897] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:it's unfortunate that they still found a way to avoid achieving their stated goals. truly, no-one could have anticipated this The problem is this wasn't an inevitable result, but it is one that I now agree with given the AUR cost presented. But the root of this being an issue was that it was entirely avoidable. It wasn't something inherent to the idea, but is the likely result of one specific independent factor.
But I suppose we'll all see how this really plays out.
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 06:19:31 -
[1898] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:But I suppose we'll all see how this really plays out. This is true.
I'm not fully convinced the twitter image was the official price announcement anyways. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6938
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 07:19:02 -
[1899] - Quote
Oh ho, now we've got something interesting to work with.
it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players
http://eveboard.com/ranks
|
Shova'k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 07:26:43 -
[1900] - Quote
lol at the people assuming the low aurum price on extracts will make it cheap to use injectors ignoring the fact almost no one is gonna give away 500 k SP for free they are gonna milk every isk/sp they can in selling the injectors on the open market + the cost of aurum for the extractor. and weather your getting the full 500 k or only 150 k from an injector your still paying for 500 k worth of SP meaning buying a characater on the bazaar is much cheaper if you want more then the 5 mill sp u will get from injects before they become less effective.
tbh this over all isnt gonna be worth much seeing as extraction from what im seeing is gonna leave the skills in your head at 0 that basically removes all interest i had in it lol woulda been nice to delete a few skills but not if they gonna sit at 0 looking like **** :P |
|
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
432
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 08:34:38 -
[1901] - Quote
Shova'k wrote: also why are the 2 planetary interaction skill except from extraction? those are prolly 2 of the most desirable skills to get rid of lol 0_o
Build 6 PI farms, remove SP (skills only needed to create the farm, not to operate it!), move SP to your alt, build 5 PI farms (damn diminishing returns), repeat.
There are other skills which offer this kind of abuse, let's see how long it takes for CCP to exclude them vom SP extraction, too.
|
Annia Aurel
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 09:55:44 -
[1902] - Quote
Interesting, how everyone was complaining/crying/ragequitting because this feature would be abused en masse. Now everyone is complaining because the feature will be too expensive to be used en masse. Lol.
Anyway, let's look at some figures, shall we?
We want to calculate the minimum and maximum sustainable range of the price of injectors in terms of the price of PLEX. (= In the long run, how many injectors does one PLEX buy?)
I assume a moderate gain of 1.8 mil SP per month game time, and I assume that extractors are bought at discount, 4.3 extractors per PLEX.
The maximum price of injectors is given by skillpoint farming.
If you farm SP, you can sell (1.8 mio SP / month) / (0.5 mio SP / injector) = 3.6 injectors per month. Thus you have to break 3.6 / 4.3 = 0.84 PLEX into AUR into extractors, and you have to finance 1 day of training time. So you spend 1.84 PLEX to create 3.6 injectors.
This puts the maximum sustainable price of an injector at about half the price of a PLEX.
If the market price for injectors were short term higher than this threshold, SP farming became viable, and an infinite supply of injectors would be created, keeping the market price below this threshold in the long term.
A reasonable minimum price of injectors is given by free disposal of unwanted skillpoints.
Let's assume people are willing to rip out unwanted skillpoints "for free", but they are not willing to pay premium for the privilege of mutilating their chars. This is a sound assumption at least after an initial release of unwanted skillpoints for cosmetic reasons by the OCD crowd (myself, included).
Then by a similar calculation as above, you still need 0.84 PLEX to create 3.6 injectors, but you don't need that one additional PLEX to finance training time, because you are using up your existing skillpoints.
This puts the minimum sustainable price of an injector at about a quarter of the price of a PLEX.
Arguably, the market price, in the absence of any demand, could go as low as zero, but this is not a likely scenario. People are valuating SP a lot, given the price of a MPTC in comparison to PLEX prices. We might see a dip from mass character sheet clean ups on day one, but that's a one off effect.
So in the long term, the market price of an injector will be between 1/4 and 1/2 of the price of a PLEX.
So much for supply. Now let's look at the demand, the buyers' side.
In the best case (lowest price possible, new player with <5 Mio SP) you get four injectors worth 2 mio SP for the price of one PLEX. This PLEX would have netted you 1.8 mio SP and one month of playtime.
Seems like a 'fair' deal for a newer casual player. It's not great, and one would probably be better off buying a PLEX and activating for game time and training, but it's not a rip off, either. I think CCP nailed this price point.
In the worst case (highest price possible, high SP player) you get two injectors worth 0.3 mio SP for the price of one PLEX. You'll get less than 20% of the SP you would have gained from training, and you also don't get one month of playtime. Bad deal? Probably. A few space rich will still make their dream char, but it will most likely not be a game breaking mass phenomenon.
As for myself, I will probably use my 2.000 complementary AUR I once got to buy two extractors, clean up my character sheet and dump the injectors to whatever the market price is on day one. Then never touch this feature again. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
2048
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 09:59:14 -
[1903] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Shova'k wrote: also why are the 2 planetary interaction skill except from extraction? those are prolly 2 of the most desirable skills to get rid of lol 0_o
Build 6 PI farms, remove SP (skills only needed to create the farm, not to operate it!), move SP to your alt, build 5 PI farms (damn diminishing returns), repeat. There are other skills which offer this kind of abuse, let's see how long it takes for CCP to exclude them vom SP extraction, too.
If this is possible then that's plain stupid and zhould be viewed as an exploit. In design terms I'd say it's a sign of a flawed mechanic once you have to dtart recoding for 'special' cases. |
Tau Phoenix
Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 10:22:46 -
[1904] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:pajedas wrote:...How can CCP even consider charging real money for something that was introduced as a way of improving content?... It's not to improve content, it's to improve cashflow. +1 for calling it like ya see it. Just tired of people telling me they're doing me a favor and charging me for it. *Why should I lose SP's if I pay $ for the extractor and then inject them into another area? Should be 1:1 regardless. Say there are 100 trillion SP's total in Eve Online. Those were bought and paid for in way of subscriptions. Now they're saying those will simply be flushed down the toilet if a higher SP player uses them? Does that make sense to anyone?
I hear what you are saying but being able to redistribute SP, even just on your own char, at no % loss would destroy the game and the need for different skill areas.
Example: You fly a dread to your alliances skill and fitting requirements. Next week they change the dread flavour to another race. In your statement above the player could, at the price of paying CCP for extractors, redisrtibute the SP to another races Dread with no penalty. This mechanic would never be viable in anyway shape or form and would be abused until it hurts no more.
Also, and i have stated this many times, part of the beauty of Eve is your char sheet. Its a history of teh gaming decisions you have made through the years. No there will be the ability to manipulate this. For me this devalues your training decisions to almost nothing simply because all these decisions can be re-written simply by getting your credit card out. (Yes i accept it may not be the best finaclial decision but the fact is it now is possible..and there lies the problem). |
Shova'k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 10:31:33 -
[1905] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Shova'k wrote: also why are the 2 planetary interaction skill except from extraction? those are prolly 2 of the most desirable skills to get rid of lol 0_o
Build 6 PI farms, remove SP (skills only needed to create the farm, not to operate it!), move SP to your alt, build 5 PI farms (damn diminishing returns), repeat. There are other skills which offer this kind of abuse, let's see how long it takes for CCP to exclude them vom SP extraction, too.
thats a flaw on their part then :( i stopped using my PI skills about 30 minutes after trying them out i shoulda been less lazy and checked it out on sisi first lol but back then sisi was a chore to set up and patch vs now with the new launcher having it in a drop down list of servers. oh well guess those of us who dont even bother with them get punished lol. although since skills will stay in character sheet at 0 kinda moot anyway since that will basically cause my OCD to overload lol |
Sean Crees
Sean's Safe Haven
24
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 11:27:21 -
[1906] - Quote
YAY! It's lower than the price i was hoping for. THANKS CCP! Already converted 5 PLEX to 17,500 AUR, just waiting for the patch to hit now. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 12:44:13 -
[1907] - Quote
Vile Swan wrote:CCP I'd like to say on behalf of the whole game. Thank you for F*****g garbage price you put on the extractors. It will only cost $100 to get a new toon to 15 million skillpoints bahahahahaha. LONG LIVE CCP.
Even Blizzard, the masters of sucking money out of their customers' wallets, 'only' charge -ú40 for a maximum level character.
If I want to extract 15M SP from one character (not a huge amount in the scheme of things) and give it to another - losing 3M in the process - it will cost roughly -ú100.
Sorry CCP, I might have spent -ú50, but -ú100 is too much. |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 13:18:35 -
[1908] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Shova'k wrote: also why are the 2 planetary interaction skill except from extraction? those are prolly 2 of the most desirable skills to get rid of lol 0_o
Build 6 PI farms, remove SP (skills only needed to create the farm, not to operate it!), move SP to your alt, build 5 PI farms (damn diminishing returns), repeat. There are other skills which offer this kind of abuse, let's see how long it takes for CCP to exclude them vom SP extraction, too.
I think the reason is more related to existing assets that are skill related (implants, PI, clones).
If you look at social skills - I would not call it an exploit to remove them once you have reached your desired (unmodified) standings.
Did not investigate deeper into Corporation management skills - I think extracting Anchoring after setting up a POS is something they will just not look into as it has only marginal effects. The other corporation management skills are interesting of course - what happens if you extract Empire Control and never update your corp? |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 13:41:55 -
[1909] - Quote
Shova'k wrote:one question since some one always finds a way to abuse stuff in this game.
Will the injectors account for allocated SP when doing the calculation for how much to add to their pool? if not then people can just inject tons of injectors at 500 k then apply the sp later hope this wont be the case.
They do on SiSi. |
Memphis Baas
1049
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 14:26:48 -
[1910] - Quote
Vile Swan wrote:CCP I'd like to say on behalf of the whole game. Thank you for F*****g garbage price you put on the extractors. It will only cost $100 to get a new toon to 15 million skillpoints bahahahahaha. LONG LIVE CCP.
You are aware that the cheapest subscription plan is to pre-pay for 1 year, at $10 / month, $131.40 (with tax), and that gets you 20 million skillpoints trained the normal way? Most people use the monthly subscription and that's $225 for 20 million SP? So 15 million SP for $100 is what we already pay, just all at once, which I guess is a shock.
You are aware that on the Character Bazaar, a 15 million SP toon will go for 7-8B, which is 6 PLEX = $120?
So how did you expect them to price this new feature? So cheaply that it invalidates the slow training in-game AND the character bazaar?
5 pages back, there's 4-5 people who predicted the price "first", and it's because 1000 Aur is the most common sense prediction. It was the best guess as soon as they announced they were going to do this.
Best part is that the injectors don't cost AUR, just ISK, so the vets with 50-100 TRILLION in their wallets can afford skillpoints easily. As can all the players who currently play "for free", grinding ISK per month to pay for their sub costs. Now just a bit more grinding = accelerated training.
This feature makes it possible to grind harder to advance faster, which, while it may not be a desirable thing to have, is how all the other MMO's operate. You play non-stop and without sleep for a full weekend, you can get a max level character in Diablo3, WoW, SWTOR, etc.
EVE is the only one that blocks you from wasting your time like that... well, no more.
|
|
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 15:04:49 -
[1911] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Vile Swan wrote:CCP I'd like to say on behalf of the whole game. Thank you for F*****g garbage price you put on the extractors. It will only cost $100 to get a new toon to 15 million skillpoints bahahahahaha. LONG LIVE CCP. You are aware that the cheapest subscription plan is to pre-pay for 1 year, at $10 / month, $131.40 (with tax), and that gets you 20 million skillpoints trained the normal way? Most people use the monthly subscription and that's $225 for 20 million SP? So 15 million SP for $100 is what we already pay, just all at once, which I guess is a shock. You are aware that on the Character Bazaar, a 15 million SP toon will go for 7-8B, which is 6 PLEX = $120?
This is true. But if you want to shift SP between characters on your own account, not only are you not gaining any SP, you are actually losing SP (if the recipient character has over 5M SP).
What I would have liked to have seen is a process that allowed you to differentiate between creating an injector to trade, and swapping SP between characters on your account, although I don't know what that would look like. Hell, even if the donor character was destroyed in the process, that would be preferable to me than the current system. |
Shova'k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 15:20:56 -
[1912] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:[
You are aware that the cheapest subscription plan is to pre-pay for 1 year, at $10 / month, $131.40 (with tax), and that gets you 20 million skillpoints trained the normal way? Most people use the monthly subscription and that's $225 for 20 million SP? So 15 million SP for $100 is what we already pay, just all at once, which I guess is a shock.
You are aware that on the Character Bazaar, a 15 million SP toon will go for 7-8B, which is 6 PLEX = $120?
depends on the remap and focus if you stick to a perfect remap with +5's thats 2700 sp per hour which ads up to 23,652,000 of course if lower implants are used or u stray off your remap focus it can be as low as 15 mill for the year.
as for a 15 mill sp char on bazaar it will depend on the focus and what is in demand i seen some go for 15-20 bill cause of focus/good name and standings and some barely break eve cause of poor focus. injectors will prolly even have traders abuse them on the market unless ccp makes a rule against it. since sp you can do as u like with will be of high value. injectors may end up costing more on the market then a char of twice the sp with good focus on bazaar in the end of course only time will tell but its a high likely hood.
@ dibz just being able to 100% move sp to extra chars on same act would be broken and abused by character farmers they would buy crapy cheap chars after trolling the sell its worthless then move the sp to a new char sell for epic profit and repeat so ya that would not work out at all. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 15:40:42 -
[1913] - Quote
Shova'k wrote:@ dibz just being able to 100% move sp to extra chars on same act would be broken and abused by character farmers they would buy crapy cheap chars after trolling the sell its worthless then move the sp to a new char sell for epic profit and repeat so ya that would not work out at all.
Maybe they could make it so that if you transferred SP between characters on one account, that account would become ineligible for the transfer process for 12 months. Or something |
Soltys
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 15:55:29 -
[1914] - Quote
If that twitter pic is for real, then like someone else wrote earlier in this thread:
Are you stupidly greedy or greedily stupid ?
1k aur for a single extractor ? Did you fall on your head in the morning ? Didn't the meaning behind the word "micro" register ? Did you hire some marketing "guru" from Gameforge or so ?
That's not even mentioning non-aligining price with aur, which on its own is a primitive trick.
Oh well.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Driver
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 15:59:09 -
[1915] - Quote
Soltys wrote:If that twitter pic is for real, then like someone else wrote earlier in this thread: Are you stupidly greedy or greedily stupid ? 1k aur for a single extractor ? Did you fall on your head in the morning ? Didn't the meaning behind the word "micro" register ? Did you hire some marketing "guru" from Gameforge or so ? That's not even mentioning non-aligining price with aur, which on its own is a primitive trick. Oh well.
Worse, they hired someone from EA. |
Sarina Aideron
Aideron Corp
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 16:00:03 -
[1916] - Quote
I still can't believe that CCP is doing this. All the promises after the summer of rage, to never sell anyting for AUR that gives a direct advantage over other players, were emtpy talk. CCP makes the game less hardcore every year.
Also, what about all the talk about careful balancing and previsional planning of features .. Has CCP not thought about all the ways skill trading can be abused by rich players/alliances? They can now:
- easily switch doctrines
- instantly replace SP losses from T3s
- lure new players with injectors
- hoard injectors as "gold" item
- instantly use the newest overpowered toys/doctrines (i.e. Ishtar fleets before nerf)
- etc
I liked most of the changes CCP made in the last years but the skill trading feature ... WTF CCP. Could it be that there was a recent change in leadership? Some new producers or managers from EA maybe? Because skill trading looks like a typical EA cash grab. |
Sarina Aideron
Aideron Corp
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 16:02:32 -
[1917] - Quote
Driver wrote:Worse, they hired someone from EA. So my assumption was right? F*** this. CCP has opened Pandora's Box with skill trading. Prepare for gold ammo. |
Soltys
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 16:11:58 -
[1918] - Quote
Driver wrote:Soltys wrote:If that twitter pic is for real, then like someone else wrote earlier in this thread: Are you stupidly greedy or greedily stupid ? 1k aur for a single extractor ? Did you fall on your head in the morning ? Didn't the meaning behind the word "micro" register ? Did you hire some marketing "guru" from Gameforge or so ? That's not even mentioning non-aligining price with aur, which on its own is a primitive trick. Oh well. Worse, they hired someone from EA.
Oh the irony.
Well, from a supporter's perspective it's kind of sad to see this primitive pricing (both by scale and alignment) they decided for - and automatically explains why they waited up to the almost the last day with actual costs announcement.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
319
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 16:18:20 -
[1919] - Quote
The AUR price is ruinously low. The majority of SP extraction will be currently unneeded SP and it will be sold no matter how little profit is in it, making the injectors little more expensive than extractors long term. The bulk price of 800 AUR/extractor means that with the low margin on injectors, buying injectors is not only faster than buying multiple pilot training certificates, it's cheaper too. The long term effects of this on CCP's revenue and the health of the game will be disastrous, you need to double the AUR price. |
Shova'k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 16:21:14 -
[1920] - Quote
Sarina Aideron wrote:I still can't believe that CCP is doing this. All the promises after the summer of rage, to never sell anyting for AUR that gives a direct advantage over other players, were emtpy talk. CCP makes the game less hardcore every year. Also, what about all the talk about careful balancing and previsional planning of features .. Has CCP not thought about all the ways skill trading can be abused by rich players/alliances? They can now:
- easily switch doctrines
- instantly replace SP losses from T3s
- lure new players with injectors
- hoard injectors as "gold" item
- instantly use the newest overpowered toys/doctrines (i.e. Ishtar fleets before nerf)
- etc
I liked most of the changes CCP made in the last years but the skill trading feature ... WTF CCP. Could it be that there was a recent change in leadership? Some new producers or managers from EA maybe? Because skill trading looks like a typical EA cash grab.
extractor the only part that requires aurum does not give any one an advantage it removes sp derp the injectors are isk only on the open market.
even then no real advantage is gained since you still have to know what the hell your doing to utilize the sp in the first place as it has been said many times in this threads 90+ pages player skill/experience > skill points. it's like some one one buying a fake medical diploma isnt gonna make them a skilled surgeon... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 74 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |