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Vanir Tsero
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
76
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Posted - 2016.01.22 06:05:25 -
[1] - Quote
Warning: This post is long and in depth. It also contains nostalgia and rants.
I've been away from EvE for a while now. The last time I played was when N3 was still a thing, people remembered who Montolio was, and Grath soundclouds were popular. So when I logged into eve to find it would take me roughly 12 days to move my archon from Delve to Etherium Reach, I was a bit puzzled. What exactly was this Jump Fatigue? I had heard it would be implemented but I didn't think it was going to destroy capital ship movement.
I fire sold my Archon. Moved to Etherium Reach and bought a chimera. I jumped it a couple of systems over from it's pickup station so I could log in and rat when I could. (I had taken a Jump Bridge to that system, then after refitting, jumped it back to the system I was in). Then I got pinged to help a friend move a hauler around to fuel some pos's. Sure, I'm up for that. Oh, we gotta go through a jump bridge in the route. Oh, I can't use a jump bridge for another hour and nineteen minutes. Sorry, if rats blow you up, petition ccp.
Not only have you destroyed movement of capitals but you've also drastically hindered subcapitals as well. That along with a gang of 5 being able to troll a group of 30 and prevent them from obtaining SoV has really hurt the SoV game.
I have no input on Fozzie Sov yet. I havn't thought about it too much. I have thought about Jump Fatigue quite a bit and believe there is a fix that will prevent this so-called "Power Projection" that you wanted to dimish in the first place.
I will start out by saying this. Why would a clone get Jump Fatigue when jumping a ship? The Fatigue should be placed on the ship itself, not the clone. The Jump Drives the ship has to use are not something that can be fixed in mere minutes by beating on it like a Millineum Falcon. The Fatigue should be applied to the ship.
So what would putting Jump Fatigue on the ship itself do? Well, first, you're still not going to be able to jump your capital fleet from Point A to Point F all in one go. The chances of your entire 50 man carrier/dread fleet having pickup caps along the way would be rare if not a logistical nightmare. So you still prevent large capital fleets from moving around freely.
What else does it do? Well, it frees up pilots to move around their section of space freely without having the jumping of a carrier interfere with their jump bridges with their subcapitals. (We'll get into jump bridges in a minute).
It also forces alliances who plan on invading space to prepare for that war by moving their capitals and then waiting. This will give the Defending forces time to move their capitals in place for a defense if needbe. In other words. You've created a scenerio where it's a "planned" B-R. (A battle that saw a subscription increase)
And the biggest one. It prevents any characters locked into a capital ship "Super Carrier / Titans" from moving their supercaps around all willy nilly. They are still subject to the current fatigue mechanics.
Let's talk about jump bridges. When armies of the past moved from Point A to Point B, they were Less fatigued when they traveled by road. They were faster. How an army moved was part of it's strategy. Jump Fatigue has made jump bridges all but useless. What you need to do is bring Jump Bridges back in their original mechanics. Fuel them. Larger ships take more fuel but no jump fatigue is applied. Or, maybe, if a jump bridge runs out of fuel, it still operates but it does so by using the ships systems to complete the circuit applying jump fatigue to that subcapital ship. (Capitals cannot use jump bridges).
Jump bridges are a Logistics strategy within the world of EvE online. They take upkeep and careful planning. They should be utilized. It also gives an opposing force a strategic target. Cripple the road from point A to point D and you effectively slow the Defenders or the Attackers.
Here's the TLDR version:
Apply Jump Fatigue to individual ships, not clones. Jump Bridges should be fueled and apply no jump fatigue. (No Capitals can use Jump Bridge Networks) Jump Bridges can apply jump fatigue if unfueled, using part of the ships systems to complete a jump. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2919
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Posted - 2016.01.22 06:13:30 -
[2] - Quote
Go and read all the design documents. It's working exactly as intended to stop people using jump drives & bridges everywhere, and use gates instead sometimes. Exactly like you could have in all of your examples. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
727
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Posted - 2016.01.22 07:46:07 -
[3] - Quote
This is the new game.
Remember to venerate The Absolute Madman who is no longer among us.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
1046
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Posted - 2016.01.22 10:38:08 -
[4] - Quote
If only CCP didn't have the capital ship rebalance on top on their rebalance list now - coming with CitadelsGäó
LORD, let it rain virtue implants for mankind and add a bonus for patience while you are at it.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Vanir Tsero
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
76
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Posted - 2016.01.22 14:48:20 -
[5] - Quote
Maybe I'm just bitter and I'm deffinately late to the party.
But I can't agree that this was intended. It's having horrible affects across the board. I mean, eve is an extremely large place. And jump fatigue is there to hinder you moving around it?
I still thing fatigue should be placed on the ships and not the capsuleers. Let the capsuleers move freely through new eden. Keep the ships from doing so. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
732
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Posted - 2016.01.22 15:15:07 -
[6] - Quote
Vanir Tsero wrote:I fire sold my Archon. Moved to Etherium Reach and bought a chimera. I jumped it a couple of systems over from it's pickup station so I could log in and rat when I could. (I had taken a Jump Bridge to that system, then after refitting, jumped it back to the system I was in). Then I got pinged to help a friend move a hauler around to fuel some pos's. Sure, I'm up for that. Oh, we gotta go through a jump bridge in the route. Oh, I can't use a jump bridge for another hour and nineteen minutes. Sorry, if rats blow you up, petition ccp. Don't need to read any further than this part. This is EXACTLY the reason we have jump fatigue, people using their cap ships to jump all over the EvE universe. Specifically it was the nul sec corp / alliances / coalitions ability to bring overwhelming soul crushing power to bear wherever and whenever they wanted it and the negative affects it was having on nul sec. And so far jump range limits and jump fatigue are doing EXACTLY what they were intended to do, limit the cap ships use. in an attempt to open up nul sec and to a degree low sec to smaller groups. It was also intended to limit a large nul sec alliance / coalitions ability to hold huge areas of space and looking at the sov maps that aspect has been successful to some degree as well.
Fatigue on the ships would take us right back to what we had in the past. Run into fatigue limits simply change ships and continue with your ways. No thanks fatigue rightly belongs to the pilot not this ship. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2511
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Posted - 2016.01.22 17:39:49 -
[7] - Quote
Vanir Tsero wrote:Maybe I'm just bitter and I'm deffinately late to the party.
But I can't agree that this was intended. It's having horrible affects across the board. I mean, eve is an extremely large place. And jump fatigue is there to hinder you moving around it?
I still thing fatigue should be placed on the ships and not the capsuleers. Let the capsuleers move freely through new eden. Keep the ships from doing so.
* Jump into your system *
Let em tell you in local why putting the fatigue on the ship does not work.
* Repackage ship *
You see, the problem with putting it on ship is,
* Un-pack ship *
the way they are implemented
* Apply fit to ship *
in the game. They are
* Undock *
Really just a container with some
* Jump out of system *
attributes...
* look at local list *
Oh well... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4438
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Posted - 2016.01.22 19:53:46 -
[8] - Quote
Vanir Tsero wrote:Maybe I'm just bitter and I'm deffinately late to the party.
But I can't agree that this was intended. It's having horrible affects across the board. I mean, eve is an extremely large place. And jump fatigue is there to hinder you moving around it?
I still thing fatigue should be placed on the ships and not the capsuleers. Let the capsuleers move freely through new eden. Keep the ships from doing so.
No, fatigue is to hinder you moving around in it via jump drives/bridges and to take gates.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1464
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Posted - 2016.01.23 15:44:43 -
[9] - Quote
It's like he doesn't understand why this change was made
Citadel worm hole tax
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
29
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Posted - 2016.01.23 16:58:59 -
[10] - Quote
I recently moved two ships and had to use a jump bridge 4 times in total. It was crucial i moved the ships right away. as the station was in reinforced. The penalty for this? my last jump had a jump timer for the next jump of over 2 hours. And i got a nearly 5 day jump fatigue timer as a penalty for moving my ships in my own space.
Jump fatigue was intended to combat the problem of large fleets being able to jump all over eve and obliterate others for LOLs without any effort. The implication was heavy handed. Not only did it nerf this ability but it killed the ability for null sec residents to move freely around their own space.
What i would propose is (applies unless the ship bonus to jump fatigue is larger):
Alliance members using stationary alliance jump bridges( only those anchored to POSes) get the following:
- 80% jump fatigue reduction for all sub capitals - 50% jump fatigue reduction for all capitals.
What this change would mean effectively is:
- Alliances could more easily defend and stage in their own sov space, while preventing others from jumping to the other side of eve easily.
- End result would be: * Ships with a 90% reduction bonus to jump fatigue would be able to jump 10 times as often as an unbonused ship. * Alliance members using their own POS jump bridge in sub capitals would be able to jump 5 times often as they can now using said bridges. * Alliance members in capitals would be able to jump twice as often using their own POS bridges as they would other methods.
- Titan Jump Portals and Cyno bridges would be unaffected by this change as would being able to use "friendly" jump bridges.
I feel this is a much better compromise than the current system. |
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Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia
40
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Posted - 2016.01.23 17:19:56 -
[11] - Quote
My understanding of jump fatigue is it was meant to force fleets to be placed strategically for both offense and defense. Judging by the comments here, I'd say it's working as intended.
Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1113
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Posted - 2016.01.23 18:15:27 -
[12] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:I recently moved two ships and had to use a jump bridge 4 times in total. It was crucial i moved the ships right away. as the station was in reinforced. The penalty for this? my last jump had a jump timer for the next jump of over 2 hours. And i got a nearly 5 day jump fatigue timer as a penalty for moving my ships in my own space.
That's the penalty for being dumb and/or lazy. The station freeports for TWO DAYS. The only person that made you jump "right away" was you.
No-one put a gun to your head and made you bridge back either.
Meaningful decisions, it's kind of an eve thing... |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2881
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Posted - 2016.01.24 04:35:39 -
[13] - Quote
You should never leave a loophole open and assume it won't be used. Eve players don't work like that. We stalk capitals for months just to get that one kill. We pour way to much money into ships and modules for marginal gains of strength. You give us too much rope, we'll go on a lynching spree until CCP shows up and stops us. |
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