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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.28 13:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Archbishop You have never explained the conflict and how you view people who make the choice to follow a particular faith or government relate to your entire SF mantra. If you have please post a link to the post and I shall read it with great interest.
Archbishop
I think an apocalypse may be nigh, because you've just said something I entirely agree with. Can you start throwing dogma and remonstrance at me so I feel comfortable again?
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.28 13:57:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 28/01/2007 13:56:25
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote: Everything you state in this post has been answered elsewhere. Why don't you just do some research?
You have never explained the conflict and how you view people who make the choice to follow a particular faith or government relate to your entire SF mantra. If you have please post a link to the post and I shall read it with great interest.
Archbishop
(from page 1 of this thread no less)
Quote: "What of nationalist militias and imperialist paramilitaries?
Those that support the old core empires in word and deed are every bit as bad as those who seek to divide the new frontier into parcels of exclusive and enclosed territory. Worse, such capsuleers spread by action and deed the purest distillation of the ancient memes of nation and empire, infecting and seeking to persuade other capsuleers of the 'benefits' of servitude to corrupt and rotten edifices of government and control. In the war of ideas, these capsuleers are the ideological shocktroops of the old order and in pursuit of the promise of the future will at our option be viable targets for such action as the Star Fraction deems fit."
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.28 14:09:00 -
[33]
Quote: "What of nationalist militias and imperialist paramilitaries?
Those that support the old core empires in word and deed are every bit as bad as those who seek to divide the new frontier into parcels of exclusive and enclosed territory. Worse, such capsuleers spread by action and deed the purest distillation of the ancient memes of nation and empire, infecting and seeking to persuade other capsuleers of the 'benefits' of servitude to corrupt and rotten edifices of government and control. In the war of ideas, these capsuleers are the ideological shocktroops of the old order and in pursuit of the promise of the future will at our option be viable targets for such action as the Star Fraction deems fit."
So now you've moved from simply attacking those who "spread an ideology" and nationalism to also attacking those who simply believe it. What does that make you if not someone who seeks to force his beliefs on others? And is that not what you oppose?
Now I am confused.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.28 14:14:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 28/01/2007 14:11:48 So now you've moved from simply attacking those who "spread an ideology" and nationalism to also attacking those who simply believe it. What does that make you if not someone who seeks to force his beliefs on others? And is that not what you oppose?
Now I am confused.
Archbishop
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:01:00 -
[35]
Quote: Since the Star Fraction was founded on the principles I just quoted from its impossible to see how this is a "move" from our consistent and publicly stated position. That you don't undertstand means one of two things - 1. You are too dull to grasp the point. or 2. You are trying to play propaganda games in your clumsy habbit. In any which way its particularly relevent to you because we'll be fighting soon and you'll find the truth of our words waiting for you outside your station.
You were founded on those principles? What about your history?
1. Member of 0.0 alliances that claimed space.
2. Killed innocent pilots as part of those alliances to defend said claimed space.
Ive read the reports of your corporations actions in the VA, NVA and other alliances. Its not propaganda its a simple fact of your history. If you like I'll be happy to go back into the Galnet archives here and link posts by your illustrious CEO where you do exactly that. A simple Eve-Search can pull them up.
And as usual you just fall back to threatening people instead of answering questions. I guess thats easier. Given you've called my corporation an "inept shell of itself" and a "weak representative" of Amarr I'm sure your massive war machine will be geared for another "easy fight". You do after all seem to spend more time attacking those groups instead of groups that really claim space and oppress people (like BOB, D2, ASCN, LV, FIX).
But those won't provide you with much material for your propoganda campaign will they?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:04:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 28/01/2007 15:00:24
Originally by: Archbishop 2. Killed innocent pilots as part of those alliances to defend said claimed space.
You are a liar, I have never fired on a neutral.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:04:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Archbishop on 28/01/2007 15:01:45
No but you corporation has. It has a history you cant just wash under the carpet. A long history. My "you" in that post refers to the corporation as a whole not individuals. If you are truly an individual you wouldn't even be in a corporation am I correct?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Archbishop
No but you corporation has. It has a history you cant just wash under the carpet. A long history. My "you" in that post refers to the corporation as a whole not individuals. If you are truly an individual you wouldn't even be in a corporation am I correct?Archbishop
No you are not correct. I believe the Cosmopolite has explained the frailties of that particular logical fallacy many times to you.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:14:00 -
[39]
Indeed he has.
But what of this?
Quote: No but you corporation has. It has a history you cant just wash under the carpet. A long history. My "you" in that post refers to the corporation as a whole not individuals.
Either way I will leave you now to answer this point I have matters to attend to.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.28 15:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Archbishop Indeed he has.
But what of this?
Quote: No but you corporation has. It has a history you cant just wash under the carpet. A long history. My "you" in that post refers to the corporation as a whole not individuals.
As false, misleading and generally useless as the rest of your comments. A long time ago JF joined the VA to reform it from within and we did bringing it to a neutral-respecting freespace stance that we had to fight reactionary powers in Taggart Transdimensional to achieve. Not sure what your point is but you know as little about history as current affairs.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.29 00:53:00 -
[41]
Never thought I'd be co-operating with a member of PIE, but...
You didn't answer his question. Why are you not taking on large, powerful outfits like Band of Brothers, LV or GoonFleet? They're all particularly dangerous and tend to claim a large ammount of space for themselves, and are nations unto themselves, and definetely "memetic infection vectors" for repressive culture.
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 01:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Never thought I'd be co-operating with a member of PIE, but...
You didn't answer his question. Why are you not taking on large, powerful outfits like Band of Brothers, LV or GoonFleet? They're all particularly dangerous and tend to claim a large ammount of space for themselves, and are nations unto themselves, and definetely "memetic infection vectors" for repressive culture.
Spend your time reading the previous discussions and you might find more answers.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=463794&page=4#94
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Agustus Caesar
Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.29 04:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tecam Hund
Spend your time reading the previous discussions and you might find more answers.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=463794&page=4#94
Reading between the flury of insults and degredations, Jasmine essentially said it would be suicide to take on an entity capable of properly defending themselves against a dedicated t2 attack fleet....hence why they have picked off CYI and the Kimotoro Directive. But as i've said before with the supply of soft targets running low, it will be interesting to see who SF picks on next.
-Caesar
----------------------------- Unless otherwise stated my opinions don't represent that of my corporation and/or alliance, but unless your retarded, that should go without saying |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 04:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Agustus Caesar
Reading between the flury of insults and degredations, Jasmine essentially said it would be suicide to take on an entity capable of properly defending themselves against a dedicated t2 attack fleet....hence why they have picked off CYI and the Kimotoro Directive. But as i've said before with the supply of soft targets running low, it will be interesting to see who SF picks on next.
Something a lot of people would do well to realise is this: we don't fight wars to have "a jolly good time" and to engage in lots of mutual backslapping and win acclaim and plaudits from our foes. We aren't interested in picking targets we cannot kill. Of course our capability is growing as our campaigns proceed and we are steadily becoming capable of engaging more significant enemies but what we'll never do is commit ourselves to a war with a force that completely outmatches our capability by our own choice.
What to draw from this? Expect us to keep picking on targets we expect to eliminate. These targets will become larger as we become larger. But just because some "forum personalities" arrive and say "hey SF why don't you pick on an entity 20x your size for a change?" isn't going to make it happen. We are fighting the foes we pick because we expect A) to win, and B) to use the victory to progress our ideological interests. Getting involved in an unwinnable war on the frontier would serve no-one save the nationalist entities currently quaking in their boots and hoping they aren't next.
Clear enough for everyone?
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Nemesor
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 05:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Clear enough for everyone?
It should be clear, Jade. I have a feeling a certain "Cleric" will rear his rather unattractive head to try and muddy up the waters as always.
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 09:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nemesor
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Clear enough for everyone?
It should be clear, Jade. I have a feeling a certain "Cleric" will rear his rather unattractive head to try and muddy up the waters as always.
Thats Jas you sex starved loony. I'm guessing your last clone reactivation went a bit screwy?
Sure Jas can sort that for you, just to help punctuate who she is of course --------------------------------------------
Join Now |
Malcoria
Caldari Deathwalkers
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Posted - 2007.01.29 12:11:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Malcoria on 29/01/2007 12:09:28
Quote: It should be clear, Jade. I have a feeling a certain "Cleric" will rear his rather unattractive head to try and muddy up the waters as always.
Jade? I always thought the writing styles looked similar at least now we know. I wasn't aware being banned on one account from forum posting means all your other accounts could still post. Malcoria
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Renee Soleil
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.29 13:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Archbishop
You have never explained the conflict and how you view people who make the choice to follow a particular faith or government relate to your entire SF mantra. ...
Archbishop
Quote: "What of nationalist militias and imperialist paramilitaries? ..."
So now you've moved from simply attacking those who "spread an ideology" and nationalism to also attacking those who simply believe it. What does that make you if not someone who seeks to force his beliefs on others? And is that not what you oppose?
Now I am confused.
Archbishop
I think Archbishops confusion on this answer is originating in the point that he didn't refer to those "infecting and seeking to persuade other capsuleers of the 'benefits' of servitude to corrupt and rotten edifices of government and control."
Following his concept of 'support' even a dedicated supporter of slavery has not to spread his ideology. I'm not sure if this is true for the slaver but I'm sure it's true for the supporters of the Federation as its true for the SF member.
And why I'm sure about this is a very easy thing: The entire concept of the Federation is against "servitude to edifices of government and control." Even if we have such edifices. And I'm sure in the light of a certain interpretation of "government" and "control" even SF has these features. I'm also sure that the existence of government, state and nation does not conflict with the ideal of individuality and freedom upheld by the Federation. I'm assured to this by the words of SF members. Even if these words were not aimed at this. The argument is ultimatle the same as in this post from The Cosmopolite.
The citizens of the Federation share the ideals of the Fedederation, willingly take the benefits provided by the Federation against the known risks or simply seek adventure and possibilitys provided by the citizenship in the Federation. In return for their participation in this community, the Federation take steps to provide savety for the citizens and the Federation must make individual choices as to the duty of care it owes its citizens.
There is a fallacy that the inability to be absolutely and entirely reliant on one's own faculties and immediate physical capabilities due to limitations imposed by the laws of physics and the current state of technology invalidates the aspiration to self-reliance and all genuine efforts to be as self-reliant as it is possible to be given physical limitations and the goals toward which one works.
I'm sure SF won't agree on this course of argument. Among other things they will point out that this isn't the situation in the Federation. Thats true. The Federation lives with an abundance of frailties.
But as humans we have our inevitable frailties (e.g. the above stated physical limitations). Even the so called post-humans have inherited most (if not all) of these frailties from their parents.
But we should not restrain ourself by these. So I don't want to oppose SF by this post but would like to ask:
Have you forgotten: There is more than one way to win! And what do you/we want to win?
If you wish them to be brothers, have them build a tower. |
Malcoria
Caldari Deathwalkers
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Posted - 2007.01.29 13:37:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Malcoria on 29/01/2007 13:35:11 Some of those old victims of JF dirty tactics will come back to you one day and they have here. You can try to figure out who hired us but it doesnt matter. Since Star Fraction are like the plague and have a reputation to match there is no shortage of enemies. Our wardec goes active in about ten hours but this isnt really a conventional war. It started nearly a year ago and we've achieved what we started out to do. We know the Star Fraction now. So no battles in space we're hopelessly outnumbered but being on the inside for almost a year weve copied everything theyve ever posted in every forum and have flown with their alts while they run around with the vaunted T2 portfolio. We declared but we wont fight yet. Keep on snipping Star Fraction the victims of your past in IRON, NVA, CURSE all will come back to haunt you one day. Just be aware your being watched from the inside out. If you dont believe me maybe you should look at the history of Deathwalkers and how weve operated in the past. After all GHSC are our role models and we know how they operate. Go ahead and post your sixteen paragraph rebuttal and your usual personal attacks and threats to destroy us. And enjoy the war but remember it isnt in space its from inside your corporation. Its been a year coming and its from someone you think very loyal and close to JF. Someone you wont expect at all.
Malcoria
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Nekumi
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 13:41:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Nekumi on 29/01/2007 13:38:04
Originally by: Malcoria Edited by: Malcoria on 29/01/2007 13:35:11 Some of those old victims of JF dirty tactics will come back to you one day and they have here. You can try to figure out who hired us but it doesnt matter. Since Star Fraction are like the plague and have a reputation to match there is no shortage of enemies. Our wardec goes active in about ten hours but this isnt really a conventional war. It started nearly a year ago and we've achieved what we started out to do. We know the Star Fraction now. So no battles in space we're hopelessly outnumbered but being on the inside for almost a year weve copied everything theyve ever posted in every forum and have flown with their alts while they run around with the vaunted T2 portfolio. We declared but we wont fight yet. Keep on snipping Star Fraction the victims of your past in IRON, NVA, CURSE all will come back to haunt you one day. Just be aware your being watched from the inside out. If you dont believe me maybe you should look at the history of Deathwalkers and how weve operated in the past. After all GHSC are our role models and we know how they operate. Go ahead and post your sixteen paragraph rebuttal and your usual personal attacks and threats to destroy us. And enjoy the war but remember it isnt in space its from inside your corporation. Its been a year coming and its from someone you think very loyal and close to JF. Someone you wont expect at all.
Malcoria
I wait in trepidation for the culmination of your sinister attack.
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 14:12:00 -
[51]
oh oh oh!!!! I've been in JF for a year now. It must be me!!!
Yay me! I'm important! --------------------------------------------
Join Now |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 14:24:00 -
[52]
I think we will simply carry on safe in the knowledge that the 'Deathwalkers' are utterly irrelevent and will have no impact whatever on our operations.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Recruitment |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:10:00 -
[53]
I feel that we must take this threat seriously. The Deathwalkers (both of them) have declared that they will declare war on us at some future time. And while we have had a few weeks to learn how to fight an enemy who uses the dreaded strategy of "not fighting," we can never tell when they won't strike.
I now live in fear, for the Deathwalkers (both of them) could not strike at any time! _
Do Unto Others. |
Nemesor
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:17:00 -
[54]
Quote from: Malcoria
Quote: *snipped* random threats and general justifications. Malcoria
We know who your business associates are Malcoria. We know who you are trying to protect and yes, its entirely likely we can't hurt you in space but we sure can sure eliminate the vessels and pride and organisation of the people you care about. As you suggested we did some research into your past campaigns and came up with some interesting corrospondences with particular note to your support of Amarrian Paramilitaries and attempts to sabotage the campaigns of their foes.
This particular statement was interesting:
Quote: "The Deathwalkers have declared war on Dark Seraph an Amarr corporation of fanatics. Our client who has asked to remain nameless is a businessman who enjoys substantial trade with Amarr. These fanatics want to return to the past when Amarr was isolationist. This will hurt business and must prevented. Deathwalkers will be working with two other small mercenary corporations to attack Dark Seraph assets in Amarr space. In the past we've operated by taking corp assets via infiltration. While we have not infiltrated this corp we have managed entry to a close ally and will use this to our benefit. Our client demands these fanatics crawl back in the hole where they came from and leave Amarr a strong economic business partner. Liberia. Deathwalkers."]
From which we draw a conclusion that you are making your "threat" now to protect these same Amarri-loving Businessmen and Slaver interests you've previously infiltrated for.
As an aside we've been offered intelligence from our sources that the unnamed businessman referenced in the Deathstalkers vs DarkSeraph declaration above was none other than ex Taggart Transdimensional director Calladen Nimitz who is now the leading shareholder in a corporation called Sovereign Labs which is itself a wholey-owned subsidary of Sovereign Enterprises - a Caldari Owned tech2 supply corporation based in Tash Murkon system doing considerable business with the Amarr paramilitaries and most interestingly of all ... one certain PIE Director named "Archbishop". There seems to be a direct connection here that leads us to conclude that your threats of infiltration and sabotage are no simple coincidence and that this posting of yours has been authorised by Calladen Nimitz and Sovereign Enterprises operating as a deniable dirty-tricks arm of PIE corporation.
Interesting no?
So yes Malcoria - Its easy to acknowledge that this "war" you declared will see not action in space involving Deathwalker assets. But its certainly going to see the casualties mount when the time comes to punish the Amarri paramilities in PIE corporation for your involvement.
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Selim
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Malcoria Edited by: Malcoria on 29/01/2007 13:35:11 Some of those old victims of JF dirty tactics will come back to you one day and they have here. You can try to figure out who hired us but it doesnt matter. Since Star Fraction are like the plague and have a reputation to match there is no shortage of enemies. Our wardec goes active in about ten hours but this isnt really a conventional war. It started nearly a year ago and we've achieved what we started out to do. We know the Star Fraction now. So no battles in space we're hopelessly outnumbered but being on the inside for almost a year weve copied everything theyve ever posted in every forum and have flown with their alts while they run around with the vaunted T2 portfolio. We declared but we wont fight yet. Keep on snipping Star Fraction the victims of your past in IRON, NVA, CURSE all will come back to haunt you one day. Just be aware your being watched from the inside out. If you dont believe me maybe you should look at the history of Deathwalkers and how weve operated in the past. After all GHSC are our role models and we know how they operate. Go ahead and post your sixteen paragraph rebuttal and your usual personal attacks and threats to destroy us. And enjoy the war but remember it isnt in space its from inside your corporation. Its been a year coming and its from someone you think very loyal and close to JF. Someone you wont expect at all.
Malcoria
What are you gonna do... steal our tech 1 cruiser stockpile?
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:33:00 -
[56]
They'd be lucky, I think Dest got it all blown up --------------------------------------------
Join Now |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:49:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Nemesor But its certainly going to see the casualties mount when the time comes to punish the Amarri paramilities in PIE corporation for your involvement.
Does this mean you are going to attack *me* for the involvement of a person I don't know and have never heard of before? I thought Star Fraction believed in individual responsibility. You hold me individually responsible for the acts of this man? How do you figure that?
Nemesor: either you have gone mad, you don't adhere to SF principles, or you are just trying to confuse the issue. Which is it?
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Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 17:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Merdaneth Does this mean you are going to attack *me* for the involvement of a person I don't know and have never heard of before? I thought Star Fraction believed in individual responsibility. You hold me individually responsible for the acts of this man? How do you figure that?
Nemesor: either you have gone mad, you don't adhere to SF principles, or you are just trying to confuse the issue. Which is it?
You can stop licking Imperial boots whenever you choose.
In the meantime its your own fault if you remain with those who demand our retribution.
Cheers,
_____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 18:09:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ituralde
You can stop licking Imperial boots whenever you choose.
In the meantime its your own fault if you remain with those who demand our retribution.
Cheers,
Does this mean that you believe that an individual is responsible for the acts of other individuals, as long as they share some kind of 'tag'? (corp, alliance, nation, race)?
Bootlicking is generally practiced by unenlightened slaves, maybe you should attack those slaves for being weak and not standing up to their masters.
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Nemesor
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 18:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Nemesor But its certainly going to see the casualties mount when the time comes to punish the Amarri paramilities in PIE corporation for your involvement.
Does this mean you are going to attack *me* for the involvement of a person I don't know and have never heard of before? I thought Star Fraction believed in individual responsibility. You hold me individually responsible for the acts of this man? How do you figure that?
Nemesor: either you have gone mad, you don't adhere to SF principles, or you are just trying to confuse the issue. Which is it?
Oh I have no desire to confuse the issue at all. I do not hold YOU responsible for the actions of this person. I do however, hold your organization responsible for its actions. Star Fraction has substancial evidence linking the Deathwalkers to Sovereign Enterprises... and from Sovereign Enterprises to PIE.
In any conflict involving hired guns, one should strike at the master and not the Cats Paw. This is not about Star Fraction principles. It is about common sense.
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