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Nemesor
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:17:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Since you keep on avoiding a single straight answer, I'll have to take that as a 'yes'.
How is me telling you "I would shoot you as soon as look at you" NOT a straight answer?
Quote: BTW, according to your own philosophy, such a thing as 'signing over souls' is meaningless and void. Do SF believe people even have souls
I have my own beliefs. Do not presume to tell me about "my" philosophy.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:24:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 29/01/2007 23:14:12
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
This thread is getting stupid.
I think the thread indeed is long past it's finest hour.
Its always going to happen when you try to manipulate people's answers through endless repetitive questioning. To be honest you had all the answers you ever needed when Cosmo posted on page one. And that whacko Deathstalker hirling of Calladen's should have started her own thread to tell us how badly we were getting corp-thefted.
And you had the answers that you needed when it was explained the Sovereign does not have links with Deathstalkers, and PIE only has links with Sovereign by virtue of some of us owning shares.
So please stop repeating your lies, or dodgy intelligence or whatever it is.
Quote: End of the day we're going to be fighting soon and you'll be too busy prepping your ship for action to indulge in this sort of linguistical navel-gazing nonsense. You'll find you need weapons and ammo to fight the Star Fraction and however silly these threads have gotten in the interim it'll change nothing of the verdict in space. That'll be reached with courage and cunning and war-tactics - nothing else.
Again, I await your declaration.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:26:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Nemesor How is me telling you "I would shoot you as soon as look at you" NOT a straight answer?
Please.
Q: What is your favorite color?
A: I would shoot you as soon as look at you.
You are answered the wrong question. I was fairly sure of the information your answer provided me already. Assuming you error is unintentional I would advise more schooling. Even my slaves can read better.
Originally by: Nemesor I have my own beliefs. Do not presume to tell me about "my" philosophy.
I would rather not, but you keep on avoiding answering questions. I have to presume something at some point with little information forthcoming.
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Nemesor
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:44:00 -
[94]
Since you obviously are fishing for something I will put this into as simple terms as possible.
Q: would you attack me solely because I am a member of an organization that harbors an individual that you have an issue with?
A: As long as there is a state of hostility between us and said individuals organization... YES.
I am not sure WHAT cloning facility you spawned from last... but I would ask for a refund since your cognitive abilities are apparently hampered.
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.29 23:48:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Nemesor But its certainly going to see the casualties mount when the time comes to punish the Amarri paramilities in PIE corporation for your involvement.
Does this mean you are going to attack *me* for the involvement of a person I don't know and have never heard of before? I thought Star Fraction believed in individual responsibility. You hold me individually responsible for the acts of this man? How do you figure that?
Nemesor: either you have gone mad, you don't adhere to SF principles, or you are just trying to confuse the issue. Which is it?
Nem was suggesting that there is a possibility of us attacking PIE due to our intel pointing in that direction. We believe PIE is involved, therefore we can strike in retaliation. You, as an individual, signed up with PIE and in case of war you will be a target. Such was your choice and responsibility.
Now, what in galaxy are you babbling about? Do you expect us to question every member of PIE on whether they agree/disagree with us and how much time they spent lately on spreading their poison? If you are afraid, leave PIE and no harm will come to you.
Please stop your questions. You are like a child who does not understand or does not like the answer and keeps nagging.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 00:19:00 -
[96]
Quote: Nem was suggesting that there is a possibility of us attacking PIE due to our intel pointing in that direction. We believe PIE is involved, therefore we can strike in retaliation. You, as an individual, signed up with PIE and in case of war you will be a target. Such was your choice and responsibility.
And I assume you'll be presenting this "intel" to the general public so they know that you are telling the truth? You can do so without revealing your sources you know.
If not it will appear as a couple of (non-PIE) posters have already said... you "picking on" people again.
Oh while your at it maybe you should've delved a bit deeper into the backgrounds of these deathstalker people. I found several instances on eve-search where they hardly seem to be "pro-Amarr". Would you like to see the examples?
7.4.2005 New Merc Corp Post
10.15.2005 Contract and Corp Theft of some Industrial Corp
2.10.2006 War with Dark Seraph
4.20.2006 Criticizing ISS over their Outpost in Providence
6.27.2006 Aligning with Revan Nefaris and criticizing Amarrians
8.10.2006 Asking who wardeced someone
8.10.2006 Asking how to leave an Alliance - VERISUM ALLIANCE
8.18.2006 Contract on ISS
9.17.2006 Trying to Sell her character
9.25.2006 Asking where Ice Belts are located
9.30.2006 Selling GTCs
10.21.2006 Asking about a Raven setup
10.22.2006 Selling More GTCs
12.8.2006 Asking about joining the Privateer Alliance
12.15.2006 Selling More GTCs
12.24.2006 Selling More GTCs
1.29.2007 Posting about some contract against Star Fraction
Since you've made the allegation there is some connection between this ice-mining, GTC selling, mini-merc (two man corp? lol) I thought I'd humor you with a complete list of all their forum posts that I could find. After all you posting just ONE of their posts and proclaiming it damning evidence against PIE and Amarrians in general (and me in particular) could be viewed as trying to confuse people by omission.
Thus I will let the body of the Deathstalkers work stand on its own. It certainly is "impressive" to say the least. Ice mining, selling GTCs, corp theft, wardecing ISS, oh and I noticed the alliance they wanted to leave was VERISUM which was led by Revan Nefaris who I am sure you will agree isnt exactly pro-PIE.
Yes the mercs you accuse us of hiring actually were a member of the Verisum Family. Opps.... Dont know how you missed that one.
The next time you try to fabricate evidence against someone perhaps you should do more checking and ask yourself if A) we'd ever hire mercs (we dont) and B) why would we hire someone who aligned with someone almost as despised in the galaxy as you.
I have to agree with Jasmine. This thread HAS gotten dumb.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:12:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Archbishop oh and I noticed the alliance they wanted to leave was VERISUM which was led by Revan Nefaris who I am sure you will agree isnt exactly pro-PIE. Yes the mercs you accuse us of hiring actually were a member of the Verisum Family. Opps.... Dont know how you missed that one.
They infiltrated Verisum with some rather pathetic attempts at flattery. They did nothing but send intel on the Verisum family back to the Amarri loyalists. You should know this Archbishop - they were your agents.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:18:00 -
[98]
Quote: They infiltrated Verisum with some rather pathetic attempts at flattery. They did nothing but send intel on the Verisum family back to the Amarri loyalists. You should know this Archbishop - they were your agents.
Yes Yes Jasmine of course.... now run along and take your medication and when you wake up the big bad Amarrian wont be hiding under your bed anymore.... I know it seems hes around every corner but it was just a bad dream.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:22:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Archbishop Yes Yes Jasmine of course.... now run along and take your medication and when you wake up the big bad Amarrian wont be hiding under your bed anymore.... I know it seems hes around every corner but it was just a bad dream.
Big and bad is an exageration - it was a rather pathetic plot after all.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:28:00 -
[100]
Paranoia Paranoia is an excessive anxiety or fear concerning one's own well-being which is considered irrational and excessive, perhaps to the point of being a psychosis. This typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a likely threat, or a belief in a conspiracy theory.
Conspiracy Theory A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the ultimate cause of an event or chain of events (usually political, social, or historical events) as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance of powerful or influential people or organizations. Many conspiracy theories claim that major events in history have been dominated by conspirators who manipulate political happenings from behind the scenes. Because most conspiracy theories lack readily verifiable evidence, few are taken seriously. Humans naturally respond to events or situations which have had an emotional impact upon them by trying to make sense of those events, typically in spiritual, moral, political, or scientific terms. Events which seem to resist such interpretationùfor example, because they are, in fact, unexplainableùmay provoke the inquirer to look harder for a meaning, until one is reached that is capable of offering the inquirer the required emotional satisfaction.
I'm so sorry for your suffering Jasmine. It must be truly a burden to believe everyone is out to get you like this. Now go rest and relax and you'll feel much better in the morning.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:32:00 -
[101]
Fortunately we don't need you to confirm it Archbishop. PIE will pay the price for your meddling without your consent. Ain't life grand?
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:37:00 -
[102]
Well as others here have noticed you "pick on" people I'm not surprised. Then again I'm still waiting for all that evidence you say you have. If you cant produce any just say so. You dont even have to reveal your "secret source" to do it you can delete his/her name. Otherwise you'll just continue along the path your on and people will question your motives. I know you dont care about my questions but you do seem to spend alot of time trying to defend yourself to others who arent in PIE (that I've seen here).
I'd imagine they're looking for your "evidence" as well. And when its not produced (which you wont because you dont have any) they'll just chalk it up to "well this is SF after all". Its about what we expect from you.
So enjoy your paranoia and see you around sooner or later I'm sure.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 01:46:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 30/01/2007 01:44:41
Originally by: Archbishop You dont even have to reveal your "secret source" to do it you can delete his/her name.
Keep wondering who your mole is Archbishop. It'll be a good excercise in creative thinking for you
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 09:11:00 -
[104]
These attempts at a smear campaign are disgusting, although not unexpected considering its source.
Had I borne any suspicion towards a member of PIE using these Deathwalkers, who by the by may have been posting in a delirious drug induced haze, I would have taken action immediately and called for an Inquisition.
We have a reputation of integrity and honesty, no amount of politics and spinmongering from the likes of Star Fraction will change that.
I see nothing but open honesty from those of our members who have generously spent time answering questions.
Lies, once you embrace them, become a way of life, seeping through everything you do. To the Star Fraction, they are but a tool to be embraced.
This accusation towards PIE in general, and some of its members in particular, is nothing but a pathetic transparent play at politics.
If it is war you want, Star Fraction, you know where we are based.
I have had enough of this pathetic war of words. ----------------------------------------------
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 10:55:00 -
[105]
Nemesor: thank you for clearly answering the question. My 'fishing' is simply trying to get clarity about what 'individual responsibility' means to the SF in practice. I'm afraid the methods I use are part of my scientific background. I want the issue to be unequivocally clear. This particular question of mine has now been answered to my satisfaction.
Originally by: Tecam Hund Now, what in galaxy are you babbling about? Do you expect us to question every member of PIE on whether they agree/disagree with us and how much time they spent lately on spreading their poison? If you are afraid, leave PIE and no harm will come to you.
Well, I simply didn't know what to expect. Questioning every member of PIE and determining their individual involvement and responsibility for something you oppose would be a monumental effort. But SF members are idealistic dreamers if nothing else. Many goals SF also seem monumental efforts or folly to me, so why not this?
Now I know SF does accept a limited form of shared responsibility: once an individual 'chooses' to become part of an organization, he accepts responsibility for the acts of any member of that organization, and can be punished for such acts, even if he has no knowledge of said acts, has not participated in such acts, and/or said acts were performed before he joined the organization.
As I see it, the 'individual responsibility' you speak about only extends to the choice of joining an organization. Once joined, you share responsibility. Once joined you can be held accountable for the acts of others. Once joined the only way to escape accountability is to leave.
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:06:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 30/01/2007 11:03:28 I think it fair to say, since PIE and SF have a history of hostility, that anyone that joins either side implicitly agrees with that hostility. Otherwise they would leave.
Therefore, we take your prior stated personal hostility towards SF (you joined PIE) and hold you personally responsible for it.
edit for clarity --------------------------------------------
Join Now |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:13:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 30/01/2007 11:03:28 I think it fair to say, since PIE and SF have a history of hostility, that anyone that joins either side implicitly agrees with that hostility. Otherwise they would leave.
Therefore, we take your prior stated personal hostility towards SF (you joined PIE) and hold you personally responsible for it.
edit for clarity
Likewise we shall hold every member of Star Fraction responsible for the actions of the alliance's past actions.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Nekumi
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:20:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 30/01/2007 11:03:28 I think it fair to say, since PIE and SF have a history of hostility, that anyone that joins either side implicitly agrees with that hostility. Otherwise they would leave.
Therefore, we take your prior stated personal hostility towards SF (you joined PIE) and hold you personally responsible for it.
edit for clarity
Likewise we shall hold every member of Star Fraction responsible for the actions of the alliance's past actions.
Does this mean my long term goals of join PIE are out?
Your attempts at threats are something we care little about Blake. Your time is coming.
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:26:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
Therefore, we take your prior stated personal hostility towards SF (you joined PIE) and hold you personally responsible for it.
Likewise we shall hold every member of Star Fraction responsible for the actions of the alliance's past actions
Whilst I have no objection to your threat, I think these 2 quotes side by side, as it were, interestingly go to prove just how innately you twist words, misinterpret and generally falsify the statements of others to fit your own agenda.
IÆll bet you werenÆt even aware you did it. --------------------------------------------
Join Now |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:29:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Nekumi
Your attempts at threats are something we care little about Blake. Your time is coming.
I have no need to threaten you.
But I am still waiting for that war declaration of yours.
The time for talking is over. It's time for SF to put up or shut up.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:35:00 -
[111]
Oh get in line. We'll get to you, don't worry.
If you get too impatient, you could always have another "live fire exercise"
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Join Now |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:42:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Now I know SF does accept a limited form of shared responsibility: once an individual 'chooses' to become part of an organization, he accepts responsibility for the acts of any member of that organization, and can be punished for such acts, even if he has no knowledge of said acts, has not participated in such acts, and/or said acts were performed before he joined the organization.
No, SF does not 'accept' a 'limited form of shared responsibility'. I pick you up on that because once again, either mischievously or through sheer inability to comprehend our ideology, you are twisting our words. Your 'inquisitor' speaks of 'smears' yet he is happy to see people like you smear us with your misleading and inaccurate insinuations as to the ramifications of our philosophy.
What we do recognise is that not everybody chooses to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. We see, without accepting the need for it, that collective responsibility, indeed a herd guilt oftentimes, is relied upon by many, many organisations as a means of avoiding individual responsibility and exercising control over those that accept the acts of others as, in some sense, their own.
Now, if an individual has taken hostile action against us and the organization of which he is a member does not repudiate that action and pay such reparations as may be necessary, we will regard the organization as a whole as a hostile entity. Each individual who is a member of that organization will be a valid target until such time as they leave that organization û thus making an individual choice.
Quote:
As I see it, the 'individual responsibility' you speak about only extends to the choice of joining an organization. Once joined, you share responsibility. Once joined you can be held accountable for the acts of others. Once joined the only way to escape accountability is to leave.
Not so. The individual members of the organization in question may alternatively wish to insist that the individual who initiated hostility take responsibilty for their actions and make good on the original offence as a basis for a diplomatic solution û when one of our members makes an error this is our common practice: we insist on the individual taking responsibility for their mistake. If they do not insist on such a standard of individual responsibility then clearly this is an organization that believes in collective responsibility, for the individuals that make up the group are willingly sharing it, and the corporation as a whole can be targeted with impunity. There is no sense in restraining ourselves from attacking people who refuse to insist, within their own organisation, on individual responsibility and make themselves a party to the collective.
The fact is that we are not bound by our philosophy to assume that everyone is actually taking individual responsibility for their actions. Rather we hold that everyone is capable of taking individual responsibility for their actions. We strive to take responsibility for our own actions and where we see others take responsibility for their actions we applaud it and treat them with the due respect. Likewise, when we see people dodging their responsibilities and using the cloak of a collective we take such steps as we deem necessary.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Recruitment |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.31 15:42:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Gaius Kador We have a reputation of integrity and honesty, no amount of politics and spinmongering from the likes of Star Fraction will change that.
You actually have a reputation for lickspittle crawling devotion to a decadent empire rejoicing in the exploitation of sentient life. Honesty and integrity have nothing to do with the institutional support of slavery and the puling nonsense your corp-mates routinely express.
Quote: Lies, once you embrace them, become a way of life, seeping through everything you do.
You have perfectly described your "faith" and the status quo in the Amarri imperium.
Quote: I have had enough of this pathetic war of words.
Then you should prevent your corp mates from camping every thread on this summit and spieling their ill-formed and puerile opinions and analysis to the detriment of all useful debate.
Everything PIE says is repetition of the same old tired rhetoric debunked years ago. Nobody is interested in what you people have to say. Everyone has heard it all before - endlessly regurgitated in hundreds of similar interventions in PIE colours and corporate tags.
So Gaius, you claim to be warrior? Ask your corp-mates to prepare their ships and courage for the time when we will fight. All I'm interested in hearing from PIE are war-diaries from the campaign to come.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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