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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2016.02.04 14:50:19 -
[151] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:stg slate wrote: Hard earned SP? What the hell are you talking about? Currently I can log in once every 180 days and earn SP. That isn't perseverance.
Even when I take a break from EVE i set 6 months of skill in my queue so I come back to fresh progress.
Its only about money, either way, which comes from patience to grind out ISK or patience to pick up a few hours overtime.
There isn't some 'walk uphill both ways through the snow' for SP bullshit story, you currently get SP for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING aside from paying CCP.
Well, we're making it even easier to obtain SP now. Just take out your credit card, and buy 80 million SP.
Not easier, just quicker. Same amount of effort spent. |
Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
36
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:02:00 -
[152] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
Well, we're making it even easier to obtain SP now. Just take out your credit card, and buy 80 million SP.
Not easier, just quicker. Same amount of effort spent.
Having patience and waiting is a lot of effort.
Older players didn't even have a 24 hour skill queue let alone a pretty much unlimited one like the one we have now. You logged in on time or you lost training.
Think about it, say you like a girl and she has a boyfriend but you wait for her because you know it's not going to work out. And say in this case the story has a happy ending and she ends up with you. Compare that to calling up an escort.
Which endeavor is worth more? |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
274
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:05:19 -
[153] - Quote
There's a few dumb skills on my horizon that I don't look forward to but with this new feature I can make Advanced Weapon Upgrades V go away? Awesome imo
@lunettelulu7
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:08:03 -
[154] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:stg slate wrote:
Well, we're making it even easier to obtain SP now. Just take out your credit card, and buy 80 million SP.
Not easier, just quicker. Same amount of effort spent.
Having patience and waiting is a lot of effort. Older players didn't even have a 24 hour skill queue let alone a pretty much unlimited one like the one we have now. You logged in on time or you lost training. Think about it, say you like a girl and she has a boyfriend but you wait for her because you know it's not going to work out. And say in this case the story has a happy ending and she ends up with you. Compare that to calling up an escort. Which endeavor is worth more?
I'm not a loser who would hang around waiting on someones sloppy seconds or call a prostitute.
Look, I understand you don't like the system, but it does come down to merely patience; I'm not sure that waiting around and trickling $15/month to CCP for 2 years is any better than paying $360 up front to them plus a premium to another player(who gets rewarded for his patience when he sells his SP). |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13530
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:15:44 -
[155] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Orion Pax wrote:stg slate wrote:
Well, we're making it even easier to obtain SP now. Just take out your credit card, and buy 80 million SP.
Not easier, just quicker. Same amount of effort spent.
Having patience and waiting is a lot of effort. Older players didn't even have a 24 hour skill queue let alone a pretty much unlimited one like the one we have now. You logged in on time or you lost training. Think about it, say you like a girl and she has a boyfriend but you wait for her because you know it's not going to work out. And say in this case the story has a happy ending and she ends up with you. Compare that to calling up an escort. Which endeavor is worth more? I'm not a loser who would hang around waiting on someones sloppy seconds or call a prostitute. Look, I understand you don't like the system, but it does come down to merely patience; I'm not sure that waiting around and trickling $15/month to CCP for 2 years is any better than paying $360 up front to them plus a premium to another player(who gets rewarded for his patience when he sells his SP).
It's not just about the money. The TIME is valuable. This new system streamlines a system that already existed with the Character bazaar, but the Character Bazaar was balanced by it's faults IMO. This new system is just more trying to cater to an instant gratificaiton crowd that is not and can never be compatible with EVE in the 1st place.
I say intended because with the exception of a few "whale" type new players, the only one's who will really benefit from all this are established players. So rather than help new folks, it will just widen the wealth and material gaps between old an new (ie new players get SP they don't know what to do with, while older players get isk they DO know what to do with).
CCP, I like to introduce you to my friend Malcanis. He has a law he like to talk to you about.
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:18:55 -
[156] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
I'm not a loser who would hang around waiting on someones sloppy seconds or call a prostitute.
Look, I understand you don't like the system, but it does come down to merely patience; I'm not sure that waiting around and trickling $15/month to CCP for 2 years is any better than paying $360 up front to them plus a premium to another player(who gets rewarded for his patience when he sells his SP).
I'm not saying you are. The analogy is to get my point across. I'm saying this change detracts from the Eve Online experience and CCP will most likely be losing subs due to this change. Sure, in the short term they'll have a quick boost in sales but it's going to hurt the game in the long term.
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:22:37 -
[157] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This new system is just more trying to cater to an instant gratificaiton crowd that is not and can never be compatible with EVE in the 1st place.
Why not? All feelings of elitism cast aside you must realize that Eve with skill injectors will be very compatible with that sort of player. Skill training was the big barrier, and with this it will be swept away.
People will play and be getting skills for it, basically leveling their Ravens in high sec.
And those people will basically have 0 impact on most players's day to day. High-sec is already full of players murdering NPCs and not interacting with anyone.
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:27:39 -
[158] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:...this change detracts from the Eve Online experience...
What sort of 'Eve is Real', space bushido nonsense is this?
The Eve Online Expereince-«?
You shoot stuff in a spaceship and try to get better at shooting stuff. Or build stuff/mine stuff. And chat with friends. And try not to die.
EVE isn't a lifestyle choice, its a hobby.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13530
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:39:15 -
[159] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: This new system is just more trying to cater to an instant gratificaiton crowd that is not and can never be compatible with EVE in the 1st place. Why not? All feelings of elitism cast aside you must realize that Eve with skill injectors will be very compatible with that sort of player. Skill training was the big barrier, and with this it will be swept away. People will play and be getting skills for it, basically leveling their Ravens in high sec.
The new player that injects skills will think they can do things they can't. Not only will they suffer for this (when they lose that triple tanked laser raven in a lvl 4 mission they should have never been in in the first place), but they are going to be even easier prey for gankers.
Quote:And those people will basically have 0 impact on most players's day to day. High-sec is already full of players murdering NPCs and not interacting with anyone.
SP trading is easier than using the character bazaar. So more people will do it. That means more people shooting those NPCs (ie a new player going from scratch to lvl 4 raven goes from 1 or 2 months to 1 or 2 days), lowering the rewards for everyone else shooting those NPCs. That's what happens when more people shoot the same NPCs, that's why Guristas loot is so cheap now.
You want to lose stawlart PVE players? Make their rewards go down while you pursue 'new players' lol.
Now, this next thing I say is not directed at you only. I just don't get how people in general can be so naive. It's like back in 2009 when people said "Dominion Sov in null sec will be great because it will break up the big coalitions and let the little guy get a foot hold in null". Some of us said it wouldn't, it would just make the rich richer and the big bigger, and naive people looked at us like we were bonkers. The funny thing here is that the people who were celebrating that change ended up being the ones most hurt by it.
Same thing here really. This great SP trading change people are celebrating about is going to screw people, but mainly the people who are celebrating it.
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:43:59 -
[160] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
What sort of 'Eve is Real', space bushido nonsense is this?
The Eve Online Expereince-«?
You shoot stuff in a spaceship and try to get better at shooting stuff. Or build stuff/mine stuff. And chat with friends. And try not to die.
EVE isn't a lifestyle choice, its a hobby.
I tend to have an appreciation for my hobbies and savor the moments with time spent. Like when you build a car in a garage, or do excellent wood work in the shop. It's very different from just going out and buying the car or buying a wooden chest. The moments and how they are spent matters. |
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:49:31 -
[161] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote: The moments and how they are spent matters [TO ME].
That is the key. You speak as those these changes ruin EVE and ruin EVE for everyone and the sky is falling.
These changes ruin the magic for YOU; for anyone with romantic notions concerning space honor and patience and loving handcraftsmanship of internet spaceships.
You are a niche part of the player-base my friend; I am sorry these changes hurt you. But that doesn't make them bad changes, only bad changes for you : /
Edit: My English isn't always perfect, I am not being sarcastic, if it makes the game less fun for you I do regret this change on your behalf. But you can't stop progress for a few : / |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13531
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:56:53 -
[162] - Quote
stg slate wrote:[quote=Orion Pax] But you can't stop progress for a few : /
Irony, it's not the few who will suffer in the long run, but the many.
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 15:58:06 -
[163] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The new player that injects skills will think they can do things they can't. Not only will they suffer for this (when they lose that triple tanked laser raven in a lvl 4 mission they should have never been in in the first place), but they are going to be even easier prey for gankers. Quote:And those people will basically have 0 impact on most players's day to day. High-sec is already full of players murdering NPCs and not interacting with anyone.
SP trading is easier than using the character bazaar. So more people will do it. That means more people shooting those NPCs (ie a new player going from scratch to lvl 4 raven goes from 1 or 2 months to 1 or 2 days), lowering the rewards for everyone else shooting those NPCs. That's what happens when more people shoot the same NPCs, that's why Guristas loot is so cheap now. You want to lose stawlart PVE players? Make their rewards go down while you pursue 'new players' lol.
So skill injection is bad because it may cause a death spiral of the population of PVE highsec mission runners? That is your argument against skill injection? |
stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:05:06 -
[164] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Irony, it's not the few who will suffer in the long run, but the many.
If many suffer but the game progresses and gets better than so be it.
We need new blood in EVE. Not for money for subscriptions, but for culture. Right now the universe is split up between the russians, reddit, some old blood eve corps, and the ex-SA guys-turned-tryhard-"expert" EVE players.
Hope these changes tempt a large CS:GO clan or something like that to come check out EVE, how great would that be?
Good bye stagnation.
Hope these changes appeal more people for the sake of EVE.
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:07:21 -
[165] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
That is the key. You speak as those these changes ruin EVE and ruin EVE for everyone and the sky is falling.
These changes ruin the magic for YOU; for anyone with romantic notions concerning space honor and patience and loving handcraftsmanship of internet spaceships.
You are a niche part of the player-base my friend; I am sorry these changes hurt you. But that doesn't make them bad changes, only bad changes for you : /
Edit: My English isn't always perfect, I am not being sarcastic, if it makes the game less fun for you I do regret this change on your behalf. But you can't stop progress for a few : /
I'm saying it's a loss for most players and we're going to have a lot less subs over time. A game based on instant gratification doesn't survive for very long. I'm just impressed by CCP's greed and short-sightedness that they're willing to shoot themselves in the foot like this.
You yourself are a romantic. If you weren't, why are you wasting your time on these forums? You probably know deep down this isn't a good direction. |
stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:13:41 -
[166] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:You yourself are a romantic. If you weren't, why are you wasting your time on these forums? You probably know deep down this isn't a good direction.
Because I am a Progressive; romantics appall me with their impediment of progress.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2375
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:22:35 -
[167] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:stg slate wrote:
That is the key. You speak as those these changes ruin EVE and ruin EVE for everyone and the sky is falling.
These changes ruin the magic for YOU; for anyone with romantic notions concerning space honor and patience and loving handcraftsmanship of internet spaceships.
You are a niche part of the player-base my friend; I am sorry these changes hurt you. But that doesn't make them bad changes, only bad changes for you : /
Edit: My English isn't always perfect, I am not being sarcastic, if it makes the game less fun for you I do regret this change on your behalf. But you can't stop progress for a few : /
I'm saying it's a loss for most players and we're going to have a lot less subs over time. A game based on instant gratification doesn't survive for very long. I'm just impressed by CCP's greed and short-sightedness that they're willing to shoot themselves in the foot like this. You yourself are a romantic. If you weren't, why are you wasting your time on these forums? You probably know deep down this isn't a good direction.
some say greed of ccp but isnt it the greed of the players who kicked this all off? the constant complaining of the game being too slow to catch up, the constant complaining plex prices are too high for players to plex accounts, ccp trying to reduce inflation via this seems like its more for the players, maybe they are trying to claw some money out of the game, that doesnt make a company greedy, maybe the game is dying and they are trying to save it, who cares, enjoy the game how you play it and stop worrying about other people
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:30:54 -
[168] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
Because I am a Progressive; romantics appall me with their impediment of progress.
Next Tuesday I can almost guarantee we'll have an all Level V character. It only takes the sacrifice of around 10 100m SP characters to do this for a character already at 200m SP. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2375
|
Posted - 2016.02.04 16:32:14 -
[169] - Quote
Orion Pax wrote:stg slate wrote:
Because I am a Progressive; romantics appall me with their impediment of progress.
Next Tuesday I can almost guarantee we'll have an all Level V character. It only takes the sacrifice of around 10 100m SP characters to do this for a character already at 200m SP.
does it make you jealous?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:34:26 -
[170] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
does it make you jealous?
No, I'm thinking I don't need to sub anymore. Because I can always buy my way back. |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2375
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:39:02 -
[171] - Quote
well you need to sub to play so that wont work, if you didnt sub then the sub money would be used for skills, either way you will spend more buying the skills than you will just paying a sub and not worrying about other peoples bought stuff
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
37
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:44:04 -
[172] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:well you need to sub to play so that wont work, if you didnt sub then the sub money would be used for skills, either way you will spend more buying the skills than you will just paying a sub and not worrying about other peoples bought stuff
I don't think it's a big deal because I barely play. The main reason I have subs is because I didn't want to fall behind in SP. But if you can buy SP it doesn't matter anymore. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2376
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Posted - 2016.02.04 16:47:34 -
[173] - Quote
fall behind? i didnt realise there was a sort of scale to keep up with in eve, thought you just went at your own pace
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 17:08:19 -
[174] - Quote
I'm kind of confused as well. I set a skill goal and get to it (fly Caldari BS well, etc), I don't just want SP for the sake of having a large number, or keeping my number as large as everyone elses.
That sounds like playing Everquest again. |
Altair Taurus
40
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Posted - 2016.02.04 18:09:46 -
[175] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: The new player that injects skills will think they can do things they can't. Not only will they suffer for this (when they lose that triple tanked laser raven in a lvl 4 mission they should have never been in in the first place), but they are going to be even easier prey for gankers.
I am not sure. Newbies will fly 300k EHP Damnations so good luck to fellow gankers!
Jenn aSide wrote: That means more people shooting those NPCs (ie a new player going from scratch to lvl 4 raven goes from 1 or 2 months to 1 or 2 days), lowering the rewards for everyone else shooting those NPCs. That's what happens when more people shoot the same NPCs, that's why Guristas loot is so cheap now.
However this will be balanced because newbies are not going to fly silly primitive Ravens but in 1-2 days they will fly:
- command ships in level 3 missions (Nighthawk and Damnation seems decent choices!) - Marauders in level 4 missions
PS. I personally advice CCP to create some starter low-sec systems where newbies could train ratting and PvP in carries. |
Divine Entervention
Bridge Four
814
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Posted - 2016.02.04 18:29:01 -
[176] - Quote
This will result in less people playing over all.
Completionists, perfectionists who couldn't bring themselves to unsub over the fear of "falling behind" are going to feel safe in doing so now, because if they let their subscriptions lapse and go a few months without training, they'll tell themselves they can just buy skill point injectors to "catch up".
They'll break the bond, the connection with the game, and experience another one which will sweep them off their feet and they'll only occasionally look back, remembering EvE as someone they use to know.
I still want it though, because I'm selfish and care more about myself than everyone else. I can't be in a position to even begin caring for others unless I've made sure my needs are already filled.
**** you. |
Joel Vaille
14th Legion The Bloc
1
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Posted - 2016.02.04 18:33:51 -
[177] - Quote
What are u gonna lock a new player up and ask if he injected skills? If ur a bitter vett this will add content to u as more new players will be taking more fights. If ur a new player this will add content for u as u will take more fights. So who loses here? Maybe the punks who wanna win off of being all lvl 5 in all the relevant skills instead of pilot skill. Here's an idea, learn to fly instead of complaining on the forums how your gonna get more even fights. |
Pix Severus
Empty You
2804
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Posted - 2016.02.04 18:45:03 -
[178] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i really dont know anyone who would bother going to all the effort of stripping 10 x 100mil chars for 1 maxxed level, i mean 200mil his already pretty much godlike in the skill department, why would he bother?
For the epeen alone.
These forums, and Reddit, are going to be filled with smugposters showing off their maxed-out EVE chars, along with the obligatory race to be the first person in EVE history to do it.
For the record, I'm not really bothered about skill injection, I might do it myself, might not, depends on the skills I need and whether it's worth the cost. I certainly don't care enough to kill players over it.
My lord.
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stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.02.04 18:56:11 -
[179] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This will result in less people playing over all.
Completionists, perfectionists who couldn't bring themselves to unsub over the fear of "falling behind" are going to feel safe in doing so now, because if they let their subscriptions lapse and go a few months without training, they'll tell themselves they can just buy skill point injectors to "catch up".
They'll break the bond, the connection with the game, and experience another one which will sweep them off their feet and they'll only occasionally look back, remembering EvE as someone they use to know.
I still want it though, because I'm selfish and care more about myself than everyone else. I can't be in a position to even begin caring for others unless I've made sure my needs are already filled.
**** you.
So, you are saying this change will help people get out of an abusive relationship and instead fall in love again with a game that will treat them right?
That sounds like a ringing endorsement for this! Who wants people who only play because they don't realize they could have a better life?
I don't want Eve to be the "whiskey-drinking overweight nascar fan in a wife-beater" of the gaming world : / |
Divine Entervention
Bridge Four
814
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Posted - 2016.02.04 19:26:12 -
[180] - Quote
While people claim to be individuals, they form their opinions out of what they think others think.
At first, the huge explosion of interest, of novelty, will be a nice little boost. The sheep will notice more of their kind and will think life is great. But those people who pop into existence for the short time are going to realize that the game is still what it is, with or without access to the magical skills that were suppose to grass is greener improve their game lives, and will surely disappear just as fast as they came.
Disappointingly, some of those people are going to be charismatic, interesting, and in the temporary amount of time they expose themselves to this void of personality, people will take notice and count on the interaction of them to help maintain their new level of enjoyment. So when this mini-explosion of interest fades and the embers cool, the sheep are going to look around and notice that all the people whom they've come to enjoy are no longer present. They'll have asked why the people were quitting or had quit, to get the answers of "bored" and "better games".
Now this happens a lot. New patches, new expansions, people come to the game in droves, build relationships, then disappear leaving open sores that eventually heal over. Except this time, the draw of needing to "keep up with the joneses" by remaining subscribed is no longer as necessary. You can stop paying that subscription to follow the people who left to Xgame or Ygame, because if things don't pan out, well you can always just buy a bunch of skill injectors and eventually catch back up.
People are repetitive, routine, and easily influenced. While it will definitely be novel and will interest a lot of people, the idea of "missing" anything is now gone, because you can now just spend a little bit of $$ and catch up.
The hook has been removed. |
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