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Annette Durado
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:11:11 -
[1] - Quote
Eve has been running the way it does the in game skills pretty much the same since day one. Lots of players come and go, but those that return as hampered by the tedium required to go back to the start and retrain the same things because, let's face it, there is no fun in skill training, it's just time, online or offline, needed to tick a box but not to actually do anything.
In reality, a skill book doesn't teach you how to fly a ship or do xyz, it's just a tick on the box to let you start to do that activity - which is when you actually learn.
Notwithstanding that a new system if purchasing skill points is almost upon us, I am advocating a rewriting of the skill system so that you don't just buy skill books, instead, you get credits/skill points for doing activities which, if a specific set are completed ingame, then you get to move up a skill and fly the next ship or use the higher grade of missile etc.
There is already a pathway of what ships makes logical progression to the next in the ship tree, so why not make actions/activities link to skills so that in reality, you get better at something by actually doing it, making you ready for the next step up/level, as opposed to just getting a skill book that says you can do something.
An example would be say, in order to progress from a frigate to a destroyer, they are 10 activities you need to do in the game, in a frigate, which gives you the ticket to fly a destroyer and so on. Players would have a purpose to go out and go things because there is something at the end of it. That may poo poo some people who stay logged off most of the time, only logging in to buy skill books and change training etc, but it would encourage people back and add a whole new level of activity to the game. If it's too complicated for the devs, then maybe where there is logical progression, you could have such a system, and maintain some of the current skill points = time trained for certain skills.
Just an idea that will perhaps give people a range of other things to do and achieve, rather than be bound by the laborious and almost pointless time waiting game where you cannot do xyz not because you don't have the skill or experience, but because the clock hasn't ticked enough for you yet. Surely doing in learning??
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ISD Fractal
isd community communications liaisons
856
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:16:42 -
[2] - Quote
Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
563
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:18:53 -
[3] - Quote
But that you don't have to do senseless token tasks (and it won't ever be more. You don't learn how to fly a certain type of frigate by doing ten predefined tasks with it) is the beauty of the system. To learn to fly a ship, you have to fly the ship - it's already like that. But in order to get skills, you don't have to do anything.
Also - in order to afford a cruiser, let's say, most newbies fly a frigate or destroyer more than ten times already, because they need to make the money somehow. So the progression is there, but you still have a choice how to go aboit it. That's a good thing.
What you propose is kind of a mix of grinding and achievement hunting. It won't teach people how to fly the ships, it will only force them to do grind achievements in order to progress. That's not going to help. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2261
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:24:27 -
[4] - Quote
Read this in order to understand why the current skill system is superior to your suggestion. You want to replace a near perfect system of passive, playtime independent learning system with a grind-based system where you need to play to advance in order to gain more access to the game and cannot advance if you cannot play.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Annette Durado
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:28:20 -
[5] - Quote
Every MMO is grindy, but here you would be getting someone to do that if you apply yourself, will reduce the waiting time to a skill and probably give you a load of isk along the way.
Lets say it takes a month to train for a Hulk if you are fairly new. There's not much you can do other than wait a month. But, if you want to invest in playing the game and do stuff, you could focus on that task and if you did your '10' (or whatever) activities, you could get it done inside 4-5 days perhaps. You now have an incentive and motivation for doing something, as opposed to 'grinding' missions whilst you pass the time, or whatever.
No everyone is in or wants to be in large pvp corps scamming people or whatever, but the new players in particular would have another set of things to work at which could let them grow a bit quicker than the current set-up on being logged off for a month to get your Hulk, if that's all you want to achieve before being active in the game. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1783
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:28:59 -
[6] - Quote
Soooooo....... Directly above this post is a stickied thread specifically for the feature or idea (I didn't read it) you are proposing.
This isn't rocket science. Please follow the rules (there is one about redundancy) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1783
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:30:04 -
[7] - Quote
ISD Fractal wrote:Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion.
I respectfully request locking and directing the OP to the appropriate sticky - it was created for a reason. |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13510
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:32:36 -
[8] - Quote
Not just no, but HELL NO. EVE is good precisely because it isn't one of those grindy "level up" MMOs. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
884
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:46:42 -
[9] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Read this in order to understand why the current skill system is superior to your suggestion. You want to replace a near perfect system of passive, playtime independent learning system with a grind-based system where you need to play to advance in order to gain more access to the game and cannot advance if you cannot play. To supplement that, you can always grind up isk and buy a character.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2262
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Posted - 2016.01.28 14:54:27 -
[10] - Quote
Annette Durado wrote:Every MMO is grindy, but here you would be getting someone to do that if you apply yourself, will reduce the waiting time to a skill and probably give you a load of isk along the way.
Lets say it takes a month to train for a Hulk if you are fairly new. There's not much you can do other than wait a month. But, if you want to invest in playing the game and do stuff, you could focus on that task and if you did your '10' (or whatever) activities, you could get it done inside 4-5 days perhaps. You now have an incentive and motivation for doing something, as opposed to 'grinding' missions whilst you pass the time, or whatever. Yep, and the grind in EVE revolves around learning how to use the tools (reading about/watching them before you can use them and using them when you can use them) as well as earning the money to be able to afford them. Your idea of shortening would make it a lot harder to earn the money to purchase the tool for the first time because you cannot mine or mission 250M in 5 days or relaxed gameplay. You also forget that you very unlikely have the money to replace a 250M ship should you lose it soon after when you are new. You also forget that people would fall into a Rush-Rush mentality, forgetting to learn about the tools before they use them in order to improve survivability and effectiveness as well as to get to proper decisions (buying a Hulk is not a good decision for a lone miner, to stick with the example). In contrast, if you have to wait 1 month for the skills to finish to sit in a Hulk, you have time to mine a lot of ore without time pressure in a Procurer or Retriever until then to build up capital, gain standings to NPC corps by running missions to refine your ore with less waste and learn about the surroundings (gankers, suitable mining locations, hubs, trade routes, friendlies in the area you could collaborate with, etc.)
Overall, more time to train skills has more benefits for new players than the other way around. As more elaborately described in the link above.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
39
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Posted - 2016.01.28 18:18:14 -
[11] - Quote
Annette Durado wrote:Every MMO is grindy, but here you would be getting someone to do that if you apply yourself, will reduce the waiting time to a skill and probably give you a load of isk along the way.
Lets say it takes a month to train for a Hulk if you are fairly new. There's not much you can do other than wait a month. But, if you want to invest in playing the game and do stuff, you could focus on that task and if you did your '10' (or whatever) activities, you could get it done inside 4-5 days perhaps. You now have an incentive and motivation for doing something, as opposed to 'grinding' missions whilst you pass the time, or whatever.
No everyone is in or wants to be in large pvp corps scamming people or whatever, but the new players in particular would have another set of things to work at which could let them grow a bit quicker than the current set-up on being logged off for a month to get your Hulk, if that's all you want to achieve before being active in the game.
Why do you have, or would you have, nothing to do for a month training for a Hulk? What would stop anyone from doing anything else to make ISK during that time? That month of training time is there for you to do other things and learn more. Crazy Yeah? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1477
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Posted - 2016.01.28 18:41:53 -
[12] - Quote
the current system is one of the best things about eve it means that i'm not disadvantaged because i have two kids and a full time job. I can still train as fast as that kid in HS who has all day to play
Citadel worm hole tax
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1739
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Posted - 2016.01.28 18:46:49 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Lets say it takes a month to train for a Hulk if you are fairly new. There's not much you can do other than wait a month. But, if you want to invest in playing the game and do stuff, you could focus on that task and if you did your '10' (or whatever) activities, you could get it done inside 4-5 days perhaps. You now have an incentive and motivation for doing something, as opposed to 'grinding' missions whilst you pass the time, or whatever.
Do you think trying to pass off an assertion as ignorant as this, to a room full of people with far more experience with the game than you have, is actually persuasive rhetoric?
If you're fairly new, why would you train directly for a Hulk, which is actually kind of a poor choice of ship outside of an organized fleet? And why could you not mine, in the interim, in, y'know... ANY of the mining ships that you trained along the way to get into a hulk?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
398
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Posted - 2016.01.28 19:42:44 -
[14] - Quote
Oh look, it's this thread again. First off, it's not a new way of doing things. It's the oldest possible way of training skills. Eve's system by comparison is a lot better.
Second, the reason why the training is like that is because that way players get eased into new hulls. Grinding up to a ship you have no clue on how to fly will only lead to disappointment.
Third, if you make a menial, boring activity, give you an advantage, it will automatically become obligatory to remain competitive. That we definitely don't want. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
1062
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Posted - 2016.01.28 20:11:07 -
[15] - Quote
Oh and I thought the skill system was that way to have to take the time and are more inclined to stay for the time.
Now I am confused, is Chribba now the higest level mage- umh Veldspare miner in the game now?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3015
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Posted - 2016.01.28 21:11:42 -
[16] - Quote
Your system penalizes me becuase I'm not a bot and have a job.
No.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
39
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Posted - 2016.01.28 22:30:31 -
[17] - Quote
Annette Durado wrote:Every MMO is grindy, but here you would be getting someone to do that if you apply yourself, will reduce the waiting time to a skill and probably give you a load of isk along the way.
Lets say it takes a month to train for a Hulk if you are fairly new. There's not much you can do other than wait a month. But, if you want to invest in playing the game and do stuff, you could focus on that task and if you did your '10' (or whatever) activities, you could get it done inside 4-5 days perhaps. You now have an incentive and motivation for doing something, as opposed to 'grinding' missions whilst you pass the time, or whatever.
No everyone is in or wants to be in large pvp corps scamming people or whatever, but the new players in particular would have another set of things to work at which could let them grow a bit quicker than the current set-up on being logged off for a month to get your Hulk, if that's all you want to achieve before being active in the game.
This is the least grindy MMO ive ever played( and ive played over a hundred). The skill tree is one of the best features of eve. I would have to have to do some kind of linear grind to reach my next goal. I rather click "train" and go and do things i enjoy while waiting for it to finish. I have no interest in grinding away at some mundane task just to achieve something. That would essentially turn this game into "WoW in space" and i didnt like WoW on the ground.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4150
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Posted - 2016.01.29 00:55:57 -
[18] - Quote
Hello OP. Let's say your idea was how things worked. How many arbitrary hoops would you like me to have to jump through to fly a scalpel, bearing in mind that I have upwards of 120mil SP and have flown everything from bursts to triage nidhpggurs?
As is, I push 'train skill', and can fly the new ship CCP just added half an hour later. Please explain why this is a bad mechanic, and I should have no choice but to play babby's first frigate games until you personally are satisfied with my ability to push f1-4 |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
736
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Posted - 2016.01.29 15:26:09 -
[19] - Quote
I could not say it any better or more clearly so I will just leave these here with a thanks to the Lugh and Daichi.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the current system is one of the best things about eve it means that i'm not disadvantaged because i have two kids and a full time job. I can still train as fast as that kid in HS who has all day to play
Daichi Yamato wrote:Your system penalizes me becuase I'm not a bot and have a job.
No.
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