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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
8
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Posted - 2016.02.01 22:57:55 -
[1] - Quote
Looking for additional feedback on a proposal I brought to reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/41nzds/adding_lasting_consequence_to_skill_packet_use/
Image: http://imgur.com/p68AEX4
You can extract and inject your own SP without issue. However, once that skill packet leaves the station, either by you hauling or trading it on the market or directly to another player with a contract, it then becomes classified as foreign genetic material.
If you inject this contaminated genetic matter you are infected and your character displays a permanent appearance change. Stage 1 space AIDS (term is subject to change). This can increase in severity if more foreign skill packets are injected. The player can reverse much of this damage (not all) by purchasing a character resculpt which will reset your appearance back to stage 1 (not pure appearance state).
This appearance change is purely cosmetic and does not affect player attributes. It may however affect your ability to interact in EVE from a social/roleplay standpoint as some corporations may deny your membership if you display ravaged markings of skill injector use (or on the other hand are too pure skin for the likes of synths). Corp recruiters may ask you to perform an initial or periodic strip search in joining a corporation (e.g. wearing open shirts for a recruiter to clearly inspect the full body avatar of a player).
Again, you can play around with your current SP without appearance penalty, but you are always losing SP that way because of the diminishing returns system. If you want to inject new SP provided by other players you have to make a difficult, irreversible choice.
This has a payoff for CCP in several important ways. -Drives CCP desire to create living science fiction by fostering social conflict without impact gameplay balance. -Potential for driving social science research on how players respond to stigmas about appearance. -Encourage additional purchases of Character Resculpt packets.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4173
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Posted - 2016.02.01 23:17:07 -
[2] - Quote
But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?
If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too? |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
458
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Posted - 2016.02.01 23:32:40 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?
If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too?
Hunterkiller-Virus of course. Do you kids learn nothing at scool these days?
Great work with the pics :) |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
9
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Posted - 2016.02.01 23:44:44 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?
If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too? We could deffer to Fifth Element Technobable. The process of fusing others' memories into another capsuleer changes the number of its DNA memogroups. Alteration of the memogroups affects the epidermis of every prepared clone. Some may argue 'knowledge' isn't solely located in the brain--it's a somatic experience as well. e.g. Muscle memory and cellular conditioning used to respond to the instruction set sent by the brain.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Isaac Armer
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
100
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Posted - 2016.02.02 01:06:08 -
[5] - Quote
this seems like it would be 100% a waste of developer time. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1084
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Posted - 2016.02.02 03:04:47 -
[6] - Quote
As I said in your reddit thread
Alundil wrote:How would this have the desired visual impact in a setting which features and relies upon the usage of clones that are routinely destroyed and renewed? Cool artwork nonetheless, but I don't see this being a useful indicator of who has used skill packs. I don't see this being a useful point of reference on whether a pilot has used (injected out extracted) skill packs. The act of using a clone means that any cosmetic effects rendered on the 'active clone' would not be propagated to clones created before that point. Finding a way around that means CCP would then have to maintain the skill point totals for each clone individually. This would be a, in a word, nightmare.
I'm right behind you
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2553
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Posted - 2016.02.02 03:59:25 -
[7] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:this seems like it would be 100% a waste of developer time.
The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP... |
Isaac Armer
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2016.02.02 05:01:45 -
[8] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP...
Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs.
I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4566
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Posted - 2016.02.02 05:05:47 -
[9] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this body is a clone, and I have ten of them in various places, not to mention my medical clone?
If this clone gets all messed up, why would the nice fresh one I wake up in after a slosh op be messed up too? Hunterkiller-Virus of course. Do you kids learn nothing at scool these days? Great work with the pics :)
We learn how to spell school.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
45
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Posted - 2016.02.02 05:33:20 -
[10] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP... Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs. I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.
I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection.
Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them.
And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point.
Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
447
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Posted - 2016.02.02 09:15:54 -
[11] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP... Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs. I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds. I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection. Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them. And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point. Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change. You give CCP to much credit.
Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1148
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Posted - 2016.02.02 09:21:32 -
[12] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP... Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs. I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds.
That would be because it's a massive leap towards supporting peoples sense of entitlement, impatience and pandering to the flash in the pan instant gratification crowd. People are unhappy about the direction shift this heralds. This is on top of the more obvious ramifications these create including the complete and total removal of consequences for a burned character and the circumvention of the SP penalty for T3 loss is another.
But yeah, if it makes you feel better just assume it's because we're all jealous SP hoarders and none of us actually care about the games longevity.
The trend I'm noticing is that the "non vets" are increasingly impatient, unwilling/reluctant to invest time and effort into things and generally crying about anything not hitting the instant gratification button. Example: All the incessant and I do mean incessant tears about the command ship train. Advanced spaceship command was predicted accurately to be next and they are whining about that too. What next? Adv. weapons upgrades? Jump skills? JDC V? It's pathetic. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
319
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Posted - 2016.02.02 17:33:49 -
[13] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
You give CCP to much credit.
Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.
Overdramatic much? Eve will still be running in a years time no matter what you say and the ability to blow up skillpoints gets me excited. I think CCP are the perfect custodians of eve even if not all of them understand it. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
137
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Posted - 2016.02.02 17:42:58 -
[14] - Quote
If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?
Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not
Cedric
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10539
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Posted - 2016.02.02 18:09:50 -
[15] - Quote
Are you seriously trivialising AIDs and the everyday discrimination that sufferers face (both in their personal and professional lives), as well as the unfortunate physical effects they suffer through, by using it as an analogy for an in-game mechanic?
Whilst your artwork is admittedly impressive, I feel that it is way too close to the skin lesions that actual sufferers can develop.
I'm sorry, but it all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2556
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Posted - 2016.02.02 18:27:07 -
[16] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?
Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not
Why do you need to know that anyway? Is there really a need to add free intel that will lead to risk aversion by not engaging someone because he has injected SP in god know what skills? |
morion
Lighting Build
61
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Posted - 2016.02.02 20:08:54 -
[17] - Quote
I like it if the draw back is space ugly as a visual use indicator.
We can't all be beautiful.
I suggest something truly beauty damaging though.
AND irrEVErsible like choices we make.
with visual ugly grade to denote SP transfer infection level.
Sorry words I'll try harder.
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
9
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Posted - 2016.02.02 20:33:44 -
[18] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Are you seriously trivialising AIDs and the everyday discrimination that sufferers face (both in their personal and professional lives), as well as the unfortunate physical effects they suffer through, by using it as an analogy for an in-game mechanic?
Whilst your artwork is admittedly impressive, I feel that it is way too close to the skin lesions that actual sufferers can develop.
I'm sorry, but it all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yes, Space AIDS is an offensive term which I resorted to using as it drew attention to a feature in the dank, shitposting /r/EVE crowd (Skillyphilis was also a clever term brought up). I understood my audience.
People have suggested making the symptoms of this skill injection disease look more Jovian (e.g. black webbed nanocircuitry and translucent skin). While I do like the Jovian angle, on the other hand mirroring an epidural disease that's more relatable to human conditions may instill more player self selection and novel discriminatory behavior toward the use of skill injection (one person expressed a disdain to not wanting their character to look like a burn victim. Why is that? Could learning to adapt to these appearances engender empathy toward persons with stigmatized conditions in real life contexts?)
Exploring player attitudes toward stigmatic appearance by way of inner/outer group interaction and character profile picture self representation could be profoundly interesting territory to dive into for social science research.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
104
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Posted - 2016.02.03 00:38:55 -
[19] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:That would be because it's a massive leap towards supporting peoples sense of entitlement, impatience and pandering to the flash in the pan instant gratification crowd. People are unhappy about the direction shift this heralds. This is on top of the more obvious ramifications these create including the complete and total removal of consequences for a burned character and the circumvention of the SP penalty for T3 loss is another. But yeah, if it makes you feel better just assume it's because we're all jealous SP hoarders and none of us actually care about the games longevity. The trend I'm noticing is that the "non vets" are increasingly impatient, unwilling/reluctant to invest time and effort into things and generally crying about anything not hitting the instant gratification button. Example: All the incessant and I do mean incessant tears about the command ship train. Advanced spaceship command was predicted accurately to be next and they are whining about that too. What next? Adv. weapons upgrades? Jump skills? JDC V? It's pathetic.
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. You can't in one breath say "skill points don't matter, HTFU, any vet can do well in a low skilled player" then throw a hissy fit when new players get more skillpoints. If you were serious about skill points not mattering, you wouldn't care about skill packets. It would just give you newbies flying ships they can't fly and give you more/better kills. You contradict yourself, and your tears are amazing.
Please keep the salty, salty tears coming. |
Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
47
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Posted - 2016.02.03 00:55:58 -
[20] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Thorian Baalnorn wrote:Isaac Armer wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The effort people are putting in finding drawback to SP packs is so fun to read about. It's like they feel attacked in their safe palce because someone might burn ISK to get some SP... Since I've started playing vets have told me "skillpoints don't matter, it's player skill that counts", and now it's only the vets that are whining about SP packs. I wait patiently for the day when they make up their minds. I am noticing this too. I guess my age would make me middle aged. But i was always told eve is based mostly on player skill and a little bit on character skill. But for some reason the vets are really offended by sp injection. Personally, i plan on utilizing it. I have a lot of those "secondary skills" that i want to train that never seem to make it to my training queue. Top a lot of skills off i left at lvl 4 because i didnt feel like waiting the weeks to train them. And you have no idea what CCP has plans on doing long term. They might be planning on adding a bunch of new skill sets for new features and this may be the precursor to that. Or they may be introducing SP loss when you get podded at some point. Accept the change, Embrace the change, and Profit from the change. You give CCP to much credit. Honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that CCP themselves aren't sure what they're doing to this game anymore. It's like they're just doing experimentations on Eve by taking a "let try this and see what happens approach" and letting the players fill in the gaps for them.
You obviously havent played many other games. CCP does a far superior job at game development than any other game developer. Things dont always go as planned because they try not to restrict us to much in what we can do. Its our sandbox they want us to build it the way we want, they just provide the tools.
But overall the game has gotten better since i started playing even if there is an occasional WTF moment or setback.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4399
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Posted - 2016.02.03 01:04:02 -
[21] - Quote
It adds a lot to social aspects of the game. Good addition. SP junkies will be thrown away outside the decent circles of society. Someone will make a rehab, patients will cry a lot. Good feature.
But CCP being lazy shmucks, would of course not even look at what it can add to a game, and people that are interested only in SP amount, and are not acustomed to idea of "power, but for a great price" will say only, "Wuuuuuuuuuuu, you want to waste devs time!"
Devs are there in the first place to waste time on things that would improve gameplay.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
13
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Posted - 2016.02.03 01:57:17 -
[22] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:It adds a lot to social aspects of the game. Good addition. SP junkies will be thrown away outside the decent circles of society. Someone will make a rehab, patients will cry a lot. Good feature.
But CCP being lazy shmucks, would of course not even look at what it can add to a game, and people that are interested only in SP amount, and are not acustomed to idea of "power, but for a great price" will say only, "Wuuuuuuuuuuu, you want to waste devs time!"
Devs are there in the first place to waste time on things that would improve gameplay. The monetary incentive is there with Character Resulpts being used to to reset scarification back to stage 1. I'm pretty sure CCP isn't allergic to money esspecially with all the ex-veteran EA people employed now.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Alundil
Isogen 5
1085
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Posted - 2016.02.03 02:51:05 -
[23] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?
Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not
There is literally zero benefit to knowing whether someone does or does not inject skill packets.Outside of your overly fearful example of a 2 week old character who might have more sp than you and own you by surprise. Which, honestly, if that happens you're not very good/prepared at this game. Rule number one has always been HTFU followed closely by Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If the two week old kills you it will be because you were outplayed so take your lumps and learn from it or jetcan your possessions on the Jita 4-4 undock. But it won't have **** to do with whether that pilot injected skill or not.
I'm right behind you
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Alundil
Isogen 5
1085
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Posted - 2016.02.03 03:12:14 -
[24] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:It adds a lot to social aspects of the game. Good addition. SP junkies will be thrown away outside the decent circles of society. Someone will make a rehab, patients will cry a lot. Good feature.
But CCP being lazy shmucks, would of course not even look at what it can add to a game, and people that are interested only in SP amount, and are not acustomed to idea of "power, but for a great price" will say only, "Wuuuuuuuuuuu, you want to waste devs time!"
Devs are there in the first place to waste time on things that would improve gameplay. The monetary incentive is there with Character Resulpts being used to to reset scarification back to stage 1. I'm pretty sure CCP isn't allergic to money esspecially with all the ex-veteran EA people employed now. Speculate on personnel and motivations much? Exactly how many ex-EA people are at CCP now? Not very many (at least publicly acknowledged). 'But muh microtransactions'.
CCP responding, slowly, to a changing payment dynamic is smart for CCP (and is consequently is equally smart for fans of EVE since as CCP goes, so goes EVE).
As for 'power, but for a great price' vs 'abloobloo wasting dev time' we play a group of murderous immortal all powerful beings who collectively routinely trash enough ISK (according to game lore) to feed hundreds of millions of New Eden people per day. That shuttle in the ass end of nowhere you can't be bothered to collect? 15k ISK? Trash. Etc etc. What lesson about power and great consequence (because that is what you, Nana, meant) can you teach a person who cannot die and earns enough in an hour's time to cover millions of 'normal' lifetimes? Nothing.
Skill packs offer a potential ability for people to speed things up for themselves. It doesn't magic skills into thin air. They have to come from someone prior to that. If it puts people in hulls before they know what to do with them, great. That means they learn the same rules of EVE that you (were supposed to) and I did, see above. They lost a ship, at least to help learn that lesson. Great. Driving the economy to boot? Perfect. People complaining about this for reasons of 'It's not fair because ___________' need to get over themselves and let go of the Pepperidge Farms meme of how hard it used to be and get with the new norm of bringing in more players and the game not forcing them to choose between quitting or an ice pick to the temple.
I'm right behind you
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4404
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Posted - 2016.02.03 08:28:19 -
[25] - Quote
Alundil wrote:What lesson about power and great consequence (because that is what you, Nana, meant) can you teach a person who cannot die and earns enough in an hour's time to cover millions of 'normal' lifetimes? Nothing. I can teach you few things about a mental health. Visuals aside. If you inject SP, it will ostensibly improve your self acceptance, and falsely in fact. You are capsuleer pilot, prone to having skeved social and psychological views on the rest of people of New Eden, and other pilots, you risk paranoia daily, you risk a life of thousands of crew members. Injecting SP would only confirm you have problems, create more problems, and not solve anyone's problem. Only time and effort, together with hard work can resolve problems. Not SP injectors. You will fall faster than you think you can, injecting SP. Everything around you will fall faster onto you, to the point where you would lose a meaning of your own life. This because of overconfidence. You will risk inadequately. You will fall.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Sir Constantin
49
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Posted - 2016.02.15 13:15:48 -
[26] - Quote
CCPlease this needs to be implemented, would generate so much shittalk and Rp.
Might be a lot of work in making all those graphical changes on a 3D body so a distinct little red triangle on the avatar picture would be enough. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
16
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Posted - 2016.02.15 13:20:32 -
[27] - Quote
Sir Constantin wrote:CCPlease this needs to be implemented, would generate so much shittalk and Rp.
Might be a lot of work in making all those graphical changes on a 3D body so a distinct little red triangle on the avatar picture would be enough. There are many little ways to implement the feature and iterate as time goes on.
A tattoo decal that applies to the back on the pod plug ports could suffice.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2325
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Posted - 2016.02.15 14:01:06 -
[28] - Quote
I want that. Just to see people like IronBank or Stromgren rot away with space plague.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2596
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Posted - 2016.02.15 14:56:20 -
[29] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:I want that. Just to see people like IronBank or Stromgren rot away with space plague.
And then what? Will you fell better about yourself if they have a different avatar portrait? |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
403
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Posted - 2016.02.15 20:37:32 -
[30] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Dr Cedric wrote:If we're looking for a drawback to injecting SP, then how about just listing the amount of injected SP on a players info window?
Simple to track, simple to implement and an easy was to see if the 2 week old character you are looking at is a real threat or not
There is literally zero benefit to knowing whether someone does or does not inject skill packets.Outside of your overly fearful example of a 2 week old character who might have more sp than you and own you by surprise. Which, honestly, if that happens you're not very good/prepared at this game. Rule number one has always been HTFU followed closely by Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If the two week old kills you it will be because you were outplayed so take your lumps and learn from it or jetcan your possessions on the Jita 4-4 undock. But it won't have **** to do with whether that pilot injected skill or not.
there is a great benefit to knowing whether someone has injected skill packets - you can make a 'has' and a 'has never' crowd - thus creating social divide. I, for instance, would never join a corp where the leadership had 'space-aids' or any of the members had advanced 'space-aids' (not because aids, but because they go against my ideals of working hard and patiently for goals) I would also (as corp leadership) actively seek to exclude new members who had 'space aids', because again principles about working/waiting. This could then be a nice little conflict driver.
and to those who say bittervets are bitter and ***** about how new players are impatient and demanding...... what proportion of older to newer players do you think would have the patience to build a freighter from scratch, mining all their mins, grinding missions or rats for isk to buy BP's? I built my fenrir, and I take pride in that accomplishment. Other people buying their fenrirs and saying they built them themselves diminishes my achievement.
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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