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Rust Trucker
The Digital Undead
0
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Posted - 2016.02.06 02:19:42 -
[1] - Quote
We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I recently used hours for plex to start playing again in anticipation of the feature, id love to melt down one of my 100m sp characters and create a fresh new one with the skills i want, of course with a lower amount of sp due to drawbacks.
I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow but the prices they are asking are WAY too much. It cost over 800 bucks to transfer the skills from a 100m sp character.
I just thrown off now by this and my excitement about creating a new character with a nice chunk of skills ( that i spent years training myself ) is gone.
I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... |
Memphis Baas
1049
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Posted - 2016.02.06 02:21:12 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah, they should just charge for the skill injectors, it makes more sense. 999 AUR to inject. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
593
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Posted - 2016.02.06 02:25:18 -
[3] - Quote
Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around.
On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
171
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Posted - 2016.02.06 02:26:44 -
[4] - Quote
They should just pay me for spending my time, playing this game!
Don't they know HOW MUCH MY TIME IS WORTH!?
I demand CCP to reimburse all my money spent on this game, OTHERWISE I will unsubscribe my 21 accounts!
DON'T TEST ME CCP! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44318
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Posted - 2016.02.06 03:46:24 -
[5] - Quote
Rust Trucker wrote:I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow...
...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both.
If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price.
However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels.
Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9803
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Posted - 2016.02.06 04:56:10 -
[6] - Quote
Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX.
Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster.
They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33280
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Posted - 2016.02.06 05:08:33 -
[7] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:I can understand CCP as a company wanting to make money off of this somehow...
...I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high Pick door A or pick door B. You can only pick one, not both. If it doesn't provide the revenue CCP are seeking, then I'm sure they'll adjust the price. However, if I was crystal balling, I'd say this is only part of a larger revenue restructuring and that the game will move to a hybrid model, where people can subscribe and earn skillpoints as they sleep (like now), or play free but buy skillpoints from other players in order to gain levels. Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable. Oh nice. Future F2P is an interesting angle.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33280
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Posted - 2016.02.06 05:09:28 -
[8] - Quote
Although... what you call hybrid, I consider double dipping.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13536
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Posted - 2016.02.06 05:09:37 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX. Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster. They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense. Mr Epeen
That rust guy should be in-game shot for making me agree with the Peen.
But this (the reaction to the pricing) is why I speak of entitlement . It doesn't matter to some that there is a reason something isn't free (free injectors would do nothing but increase to profits of folks who are going to farm and harvest SP, like I'm now considering doing), all that matters to them is what they want, and what they think others owe them, and damn the consequences.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
627
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Posted - 2016.02.06 05:19:07 -
[10] - Quote
Choices have consequences.... I like that its working as intended even here. You can spend time and effort making choices or pay a premium for instant gratification where the price is equivalent to the time and effort the other way.
Imam: Have you heard anything I've said?
Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
Imam: That's right.
Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
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Tavari Minrathos
Honey Badgers R US
16
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Posted - 2016.02.06 07:59:41 -
[11] - Quote
just because you want them to be free, doesn't mean that they should be free.
Development time went into Skill extractors. testing time went into this.
Its an additional service that I'm thrilled to have in the game. And the price point is low enough that i expect to see this feature actually used. |
Joel Vaille
14th Legion The Bloc
2
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Posted - 2016.02.06 08:02:59 -
[12] - Quote
They should pay me to use injectors.
Come on these things aren't even expensive. I spent months training for bombers just for the missions to change on me and become impossible with even tech 2 launchers javs and a faction mwd. Now that's some bs. A little over 5$ for an extractor isn't that bad. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4720
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Posted - 2016.02.06 08:05:57 -
[13] - Quote
Your proposition OP Its outragous!
CCP should pay us for playing the game.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Joel Vaille
14th Legion The Bloc
3
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Posted - 2016.02.06 08:09:06 -
[14] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Your proposition OP Its outragous! CCP should pay us for playing the game.
Yea how else can I afford to play this game. Time=money. Ccplz |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1077
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Posted - 2016.02.06 09:19:22 -
[15] - Quote
Skill extractors should not be free. Skill extractors should not exist. |
flakeys
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
3245
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Posted - 2016.02.06 09:45:47 -
[16] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee. And you pay extra for extra services such as character transfers. $20.00 or two PLEX. Extractors are an extra service. You don't need them to play. You get them because you are lazy and impatient to build your characters faster. They definitely shouldn't be free. That makes no sense. Mr Epeen That rust guy should be in-game shot for making me agree with the Peen. But this (the reaction to the pricing) is why I speak of entitlement . It doesn't matter to some that there is a reason something isn't free (free injectors would do nothing but increase to profits of folks who are going to farm and harvest SP, like I'm now considering doing), all that matters to them is what they want, and what they think others owe them, and damn the consequences.
Problem is people usually see it as a 'need to aquire' not a 'luxury to aquire'.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2016.02.06 12:24:03 -
[17] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Just a hunch, but seems like the direction this is going; in which case the price is perfectly reasonable.
But it's not the situation we have at the moment, and therefore I feel the price is unreasonable.
I don't believe the extractors should be free, but I am disappointed that CCP should make it so expensive to transfer SP that you have already paid to earn between your own characters. |
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
31
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Posted - 2016.02.06 12:37:40 -
[18] - Quote
Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP...
lolwat.
The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,-
The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least.
This is EVE
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Phapma Tearial
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.02.06 12:51:49 -
[19] - Quote
Jarsoom Blade wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... lolwat. The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,- The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least.
Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic.
And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release.
I do agree with you on the AUR prices though. |
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
31
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:09:56 -
[20] - Quote
Phapma Tearial wrote:Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic.
And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release.
I do agree with you on the AUR prices though.
I specifically mentioned the SP trading system as not being a core game mechanic. Not skill points themselves. Also, the core game mechanic of getting SP is the training queue, rather.
Also if you think WoW has more content in one expansion than the entirety of EVE than you're playing EVE wrong, friend.
This is EVE
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Phapma Tearial
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:28:30 -
[21] - Quote
Jarsoom Blade wrote:Phapma Tearial wrote:Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic.
And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release.
I do agree with you on the AUR prices though. I specifically mentioned the SP trading system as not being a core game mechanic. Not skill points themselves. Also, the core game mechanic of getting SP is the training queue, rather. Also if you think WoW has more content in one expansion than the entirety of EVE than you're playing EVE wrong, friend.
Well I don't want to drag this off topic too much, but Blizzard put more 'stuff' into the game in one expansion than CCP has ever put into their game. Not really a criticism, just my observation Exodus was a biggie, and Trinity gave us more ships, then we got incursions and better character creation. But I feel none of it equates to the sheer amount of work that goes into creating traditional MMO raids and questing zones. I suppose it's like Blizzard gives us rooms filled with paintings, and CCP give us the canvas and the paint |
Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S
62
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:29:13 -
[22] - Quote
Phapma Tearial wrote:Jarsoom Blade wrote:Rust Trucker wrote:We already pay a subscription fee, this feature should be included in that fee.
I just feel that since we already pay a monthly fee, there is no reason for prices to be this high, if anything they shouldnt cost more than 100 AUR if anything at all, way to announce a cool feature only to put it behind a giant price tag CCP... lolwat. The SP trading system is an optional feature, like ship SKINs, that you can use and spend some extra cash on if you want. It's not a core game mechanic, so it's not part of your subscription. Subscription goes into expansions and making the game better. EVE is the only game where subsciption profits actually go into expansions: I have never had to pay for an expansion of EVE, whereas other MMO's dish expacs out every year for around Gé¼40,- The system of SP trading is fair. The cost though, with current AUR package costs (Gé¼5,- = 900 AUR, one extractor = 999 AUR), is just cheeky to say the least. Actually, acquiring skill points is a core game mechanic. And EVE's 'expansions' are hardly equivalent to those of other MMOs. There is probably more content in one World of Warcraft expansion than has been added to EVE Online since its release. I do agree with you on the AUR prices though.
I cant believe you are comparing WoW to EvE. Thats like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Spider in terms of quality. Give me a graphics artist and animator and i could build those WoW XPacks at the rate of 1 every six months. Those are not that hard to build, they have no substance. And its not like they attempt to balance their game. There are huge gaps in strength and abilities between every xpack. Grinding a max level dungeon, new xpack comes out, you get you some new green armor maybe a couple of blue pieces and now your soloing that dungeon that you needed a group for before the xpack. That game is terrible. My dog has a bigger skill list than their classes. And the progression is 100% linear but made to feel like an open vast world.
Ill take quality of quantity and substance over flash, thanks.
Acquiring skills is a core mechanic. Acquiring game skill points at an accelerated rate is not.
Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
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Phapma Tearial
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:35:01 -
[23] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:I cant believe you are comparing WoW to EvE. Thats like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Spider in terms of quality. Give me a graphics artist and animator and i could build those WoW XPacks at the rate of 1 every six months. Those are not that hard to build, they have no substance. And its not like they attempt to balance their game. There are huge gaps in strength and abilities between every xpack. Grinding a max level dungeon, new xpack comes out, you get you some new green armor maybe a couple of blue pieces and now your soloing that dungeon that you needed a group for before the xpack. That game is terrible. My dog has a bigger skill list than their classes. And the progression is 100% linear but made to feel like an open vast world.
Ill take quality of quantity and substance over flash, thanks.
Acquiring skills is a core mechanic. Acquiring game skill points at an accelerated rate is not.
Actually it was someone else who tried to equate EVE's expansions with those of other MMOs. I was actually describing how they are not the same.
Anyway, back to the thread topic.
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ArmyOfMe
BANISHED. The WeHurt Initiative
578
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:39:32 -
[24] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Funny how the yay sayers slowly start catching up to the fact that this is not about giving players the ability to move SP around.
On topic - making them free would only make it even worse and defeat the (true) purpose.
As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to **** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it
Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not **** up normal char sales.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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Nuclear Nut Zack
CK-0FF Bad Intention
0
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Posted - 2016.02.06 13:43:41 -
[25] - Quote
Completely free seems a bit off. There should definitely be a price on them, but let's look at the percentages here: Let's say the average character sold on the bazaar goes for 15 bil and the transfer fee is paid in PLEX. At a PLEX price of 1.25 bil, that means 16.67% goes to CCP. On the other hand, if the average character goes for 20 bil and the transfer is paid in money, that works out to 6.5% for CCP.
Now let's look at the price of skill extractors in a very conservative way: Let's say extractors go for $4 and PLEX for $20. At 2000SP/hour (so the SP has a high value) you get about 1.44 mil per month, so let's just say it takes 1/3 PLEX of training to fill an extractor. That works out to each injector costing 1/3 PLEX for SP and 1/5 PLEX for the extractor. That comes out to 37.5% of the transaction going to CCP, and that's pretty much the bare minimum where the extractors are obtained at the ideal price and the SP comes at a relatively high price. The percentage is more like 45-55% with more ideal training methods.
See the problem? I'd say a price of about 120 each in small numbers or 100 in bulk would be reasonable, but the current prices will completely destroy most of the potential use and market for SP packets. |
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
126468
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Posted - 2016.02.06 14:07:19 -
[26] - Quote
They should never have done it.
FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26843
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Posted - 2016.02.06 14:32:23 -
[27] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to **** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not **** up normal char sales. Yup. The amount of whinging that has come out of this so far only suggests that they almost turned this travesty into a good thing. I mean, the idea is still idiotic and the reasons for implementing it were (predictably) complete bunk, but at least it has come to generate some comedy.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
467
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Posted - 2016.02.06 15:49:59 -
[28] - Quote
They should not be free.
If they were , people would farm thier own alts with no penalty. You would be able to move points around willy nilly, totally defeating the skillpoint system already in place.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13543
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Posted - 2016.02.06 16:41:56 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:As i said in the first dev blog about this, trust CCP to **** it up for themselfs anyhow with taking to much money for it Personally i hate this feature, so im quite happy with the price. And it will deffo not **** up normal char sales. Yup. The amount of whinging that has come out of this so far only suggests that they almost turned this travesty into a good thing. I mean, the idea is still idiotic and the reasons for implementing it were (predictably) complete bunk, but at least it has come to generate some comedy.
Just a bit of commentary here. It's like a bad episode of Battlestar Galactica ie "This has happened before, it will happen again" lol.
CCP come up with some idea and even go so far as to suggest that it is for new people/the small guys/ groups, whatever. Many Veterans and Established players (having been through this before) see right through it the 1st second the idea is posted. And we say so.
Others (either newish players who lack the context of past experience or the more na+»ve/idealistic/unrealistic types among the veterans) look at the idea and foolishly think it's going to work as intended, and throw their support behind it in the form of snarky "you bitter vets are gonna get it now" posts.
The Vets/Established with some common sense and a touch less personal greed try to explain to these people that not only will this idea NOT help new players, in Fine Malcanian Fashion, it will enrich US (the folks who have been here for a while) and make the gaps between old and new, rich and poor, big group and little group even wider than they were before.
But people like this never listen, and they are SURE that the opposition comes from people who 'just don't like change'.
I almost feel a bit guilty when I see the obvious results of these things (like who people were sure as hell that Dominion sov was going to stick it to the 'big cartels' and let the little guy into null sec, when all it ended up doing was let the little guy RENT his way into null while his isk found it's way into big group's wallets lol). I mean, it's like laughing at that 'special kid' in school who got off that special bus every day, when the reality is that he couldn't help being special, any more than these Na+»ve types can help their lack of common sense or wisdom. |
Rust Trucker
The Digital Undead
1
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Posted - 2016.02.06 16:59:42 -
[30] - Quote
Nuclear Nut Zack wrote:Completely free seems a bit off. There should definitely be a price on them, but let's look at the percentages here: Let's say the average character sold on the bazaar goes for 15 bil and the transfer fee is paid in PLEX. At a PLEX price of 1.25 bil, that means 16.67% goes to CCP. On the other hand, if the average character goes for 20 bil and the transfer is paid in money, that works out to 6.5% for CCP.
Now let's look at the price of skill extractors in a very conservative way: Let's say extractors go for $4 and PLEX for $20. At 2000SP/hour (so the SP has a high value) you get about 1.44 mil per month, so let's just say it takes 1/3 PLEX of training to fill an extractor. That works out to each injector costing 1/3 PLEX for SP and 1/5 PLEX for the extractor. That comes out to 37.5% of the transaction going to CCP, and that's pretty much the bare minimum where the extractors are obtained at the ideal price and the SP comes at a relatively high price. The percentage is more like 45-55% with more ideal training methods.
See the problem? If anything the cost should be a little lower than the character bazaar to ensure a healthy market develops. Even if they were free CCP would eventually come out ahead in the end due to SP being lost in the injection process. I'd say a price of about 120 each and 100 in bulk would be reasonable, but the current prices will completely destroy most of the potential use and market for SP packets.
This was more of how i was thinking when i first posted, me saying it should be free was just my knee jerk reaction after seeing the price. The skill points were already paid for, now its going to alot more money to move the skill points we already paid for and end up with less ,which I am totally fine with dimishing returns and less skill points out of it. But when this feature was announced i was hoping it would be a way to transfer skill points at a decent price.
With the way CCP has priced aurum you actually have to end with paying more than you would want to for a certain amount of skill injectors aswell.
My problem is not with the feature itself but with the price, say you where to spend 100 usd, you honestly dont need with alot of sp ( that was already paid for with someones subscription ) Now because of this instead of spending up to 100-200 bucks on this feature im not going to use it at all, i think alot of people will buy a couple to fix their skill sheet to get rid of mining skills and crap on their combat characters but after that at these prices, not so much. |
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