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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10801
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Posted - 2016.02.14 12:53:56 -
[331] - Quote
I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.
Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.
As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.
To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Josef Djugashvilis
3272
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Posted - 2016.02.14 13:14:05 -
[332] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.
Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.
As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.
To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!
CCP will probably argue that it is not possible to keep the old camera option, and anyway, they will say, it is obvious from the overwhelming positive responses on the forum that the new camera is welcomed by all.
All CCP have to do now, is to work out how to monetize the new camera...purely in the interest of the new players of course.
This is not a signature.
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Joffy Aulx-Gao
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
85
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Posted - 2016.02.14 13:49:07 -
[333] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters Hello CCP Turtlepower
As a disabled player who is a lowsec pirate, the d-scan changes will negatively impact me if they remain as stated above. I am unable to use a keyboard except for an onscreen one, and this makes me unable to hold a keybind down while clicking in space. Whilst I realise that the changes may be beneficial, I would request that the current method of camera tracking d-scan remain available as an option, perhaps as a toggle option.
I'm a lowsec pirate, diplo of A Band Apart and a CSM candidate
CSM Campaign
CSM Interview
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Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
525
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Posted - 2016.02.14 14:00:27 -
[334] - Quote
The new camera options are gorgeous and with a little work they can be incredible. For certain applications. However, it cannot be ignored that they are relatively useless for typical day-to-day play in most situations. Without further development and an effective snap-to feature that actually works and doesn't require additional key-strokes - the current "new" camera system is more harmful than helpful for day-to-day play.
It seems that this challenge could be easily rectified by including ALL cameras as optional. If that is impossible, then the new system remains a BETA that is in serious need of further development.
While there is no doubt the new system allows for amazing views and potential dramatic video, it is challenging to use effectively in normal combat situations.
http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
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ArmyOfMe
BANISHED. The WeHurt Initiative
587
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Posted - 2016.02.14 14:20:23 -
[335] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
Please bring back this feature. Its one of the things i used the most in eve.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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Daniel Westelius
Specter Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
5
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Posted - 2016.02.14 16:10:09 -
[336] - Quote
Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of: 1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid 2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off
If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2758
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Posted - 2016.02.14 17:20:55 -
[337] - Quote
Daniel Westelius wrote:Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of: 1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid 2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off
If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it.
i have not seen this issue. so maybe they fixed it
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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DaReaper
Net 7
2758
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Posted - 2016.02.14 17:23:46 -
[338] - Quote
As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Josef Djugashvilis
3274
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:02:12 -
[339] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
Golly! be careful not to hurt yourself when you fall off your high horse.
This is not a signature.
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Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:23:41 -
[340] - Quote
OK, I tried the new v on SISI, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.
If this is as intended, the interface is still clunky and unusable for high level DSCAN scouting because it is still two button presses and not one. |
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Soltys
76
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:26:35 -
[341] - Quote
Quote:The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well.
People have been explaining the issues for one fourth of a year in so many ways it's somewhere between amusing and sad at this point.
Quote:OK, I tried the new v on SIS, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.
Keep 'v' pressed down and then select stuff in overview / space. No need to touch 'c'.
It's significantly better than 'c', but still requires one key to be pressed all the time (not mentioning wicked zoom outs when choosing different bodies).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:27:04 -
[342] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven
For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down.
I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:33:40 -
[343] - Quote
Joffy Aulx-Gao wrote: As a disabled player who is a lowsec pirate, the d-scan changes will negatively impact me if they remain as stated above. I am unable to use a keyboard except for an onscreen one, and this makes me unable to hold a keybind down while clicking in space. Whilst I realise that the changes may be beneficial, I would request that the current method of camera tracking d-scan remain available as an option, perhaps as a toggle option.
CCP could care less about a persons handicap, those tiny space icons are proof of that, I have bad eyesight and had to drastically change my play style because of them, all I needed was the old style icons as an option but that was too much work to appease a small portion of the player base so was omitted.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
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Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:34:55 -
[344] - Quote
Soltys wrote:[
Keep 'v' pressed down and then select stuff in overview / space. No need to touch 'c'.
It's significantly better than 'c', but still requires one key to be pressed all the time (not mentioning wicked zoom outs when choosing different bodies).
That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously. I would be fine with a click object and then hit v to dscan as long as hitting v moves the camera. Holding the v key down all the time is a terrible idea from a UI standpoint. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:46:12 -
[345] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33329
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Posted - 2016.02.14 19:57:09 -
[346] - Quote
I've submitted a support ticket for this as well. But so it gets out to more devs I want to add it here:
Pan camera bound to right-click sucks. When I right-click on a station or for a right-click menu in space, it pans my camera off center. I want to bind that to something other than one of my primary EVE buttons.
I've bound Alt-1 (Tactical Camera) to a G-key as a return-to-center shortcut for the camera. That works well enough.
I've un-bound Track completely because until it becomes useful somehow I won't use it.
If right-click pan is a setting in shortcuts I can change, please enlighten me. I can't find it.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33329
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:04:22 -
[347] - Quote
What is track even for? If it's meant to replace Look At then why doesn't the camera stay with the object?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Soltys
76
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:25:00 -
[348] - Quote
Quote:That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously.
Not mashing down, just keep it pressed down (once) then click whatever targets you want dscanned with narrow cone. Sure I still prefer old trigger appraoch, but FWIW 'v' better than having to press 'c' separately for each entity.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:35:58 -
[349] - Quote
Soltys wrote:Quote:That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously. Not mashing down, just keep it pressed down (once) then click whatever targets you want dscanned with narrow cone. Sure I still prefer old trigger appraoch, but FWIW 'v' better than having to press 'c' separately for each entity.
If I'm in a system with 20 asteroid belts looking for ratters, I have to keep the V key mashed while I click through 20 belts. It's clunky and the dscan occasionally restarts before I can fully check when it catches POS trash. It adds a bit of time and that time is just extra time for the prey to escape if they are flying correctly.
Really, it comes down to is game design: why is this change even needed, what purpose does it serve and who does it hurt (intentionally or not). If CCP wants to nerf DSCAN, they should just explain why they think it needs to be nerfed. What I really think is the case is that they are just not interested in doing the coding to make the old functionality work in the new camera. That is not game design at all. That would just be deciding they don't want to spend the money to pay the coders to write the code. Two very different reasons. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
355
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:41:31 -
[350] - Quote
Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
The overview icon change, and the custom choices still not being choices, put my plan to get more PvP experience (so I don't suck quite as bad as I do now! Ha!) on the shelf. I can't see the detail on smaller icons to know which is which at a glance. Bad eyesight, even with updated glasses, won't give the clean, clear crisp detail I need.
If the old camera is removed as is CCP's currrent plan in a month or so, I won't be able to play at all, even hiding out in asteroid belts or mission sites. The clean, crisp, clear, and precise detail and control from the camera won't be there. Instead it's camera on a bobber on a high wind advisory day at the lake. No. Due to the same eyesight problem that is nixing PvP experience gaining combined with the vertigo this new camera is triggering while it wanders where I did NOT tell it to go, are issues I can't just 'work around, tweak settings, and accept without other options' with force of will, determination, and sheer guts. Sorry, can't force my eyes to 'evolve' back to a perfect 20/20 diagnosis.
Old camera goes, so do I. Nothing too personal CCP. Just an entertainment dollar business decision.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
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Stefan Silviu
Knowledge is Money - Money is Power
16
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:43:14 -
[351] - Quote
please keep the option to use the old camera or alow us to set the new camera to work like old one
thx |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
358
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Posted - 2016.02.14 20:51:04 -
[352] - Quote
Alea wrote:DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening. Fun fact: it is almost no where true where the person writing the code is also writing the requirements.
The developers have a list of user stories:
"A user can use a modifier key to scan an object by clicking on it"
"A user can view a delayed D-Scan"
"A user can view a camera that tracks an object selected"
etc.
Within those stories are often pictures, descriptions, and acceptance tests that define what constitutes a "passed" story.
When you give feedback, some of that feedback is stored in the form of these tickets, those tickets are generally assigned points, and then pulled into the scope of work for a sprint. Sprints are generally 2 weeks. Now, a lot of the internals of CCP has changed in recent years, but that is the fundamentals of Agile development.
Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review.
I only say this to offer clarity to what is going on behind the scenes of this big discussion.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Sonja Fury
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:07:21 -
[353] - Quote
I am one of these players who are getting motion sickness from the camera, The inertia values on the new camera I think is whats causing my motion sickness literally the game is not playable with the new camera for me until it's fixed. I also dislike the track options being in the right click menu, as someone who is a carebear I don't need to track my asteroids I am chewing so please remove it. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:08:48 -
[354] - Quote
Another day another try. I really want to get used to the new cam since I have to but the tracking thing is still not working. I unchecked all the fancy yet useless features and put the speed to max but when I try to use the tracking it does weird things.
- Shortkey doesn-¦t work except I hit it twice
- When I hit the tracking shortkey twice it feels like the cam is getting "unlocked" from my ship, snapped back to somewhere left/right/above or below my ship and than focused on the object I like to track. Seriously, what is this good for? The same happens when I use "track" on the the selected item window. Now matter how you are trying to sell this as a good feature it is simply a ship killer.
- Using d-scan with the new camera and the new map is simply not efficient at all. Since there is no real tracking anymore it-¦s not possible to d-scan properly using the map. You have to adjust in space while keeping and eye on the map. So the whole new feature on the map with the d-scan bubble/cone became pretty much useless for d-scanning.
Last but not least it seems that some of the old shortkeys are mixed up with the new ones. It-¦s kinda trial and error to find the correct shortcut for the new features. Yes they are in the tooltip but these tracking cam toggle shortkeys are not working at all or I am simply a little to slow in the head to figure out how to use them.
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
62
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:10:50 -
[355] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review.
That is such a cold point of view on which i'm not agree with at all. To take your example, the difference between a good and a bad interpreter would be if he's listening to that artist's music or not. So it goes for games, the difference between a good or a bad game would be if the code writer is playing this game or not.
It is also known as "passion". Which transpires through the work created. Then emulates, or not. |
Dhugall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:27:56 -
[356] - Quote
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I'm one who has opted out of using the new camera at every stage. I did it for one reason...
I love the simple functionality of clicking on an object on the overview and looking in that direction.
Please provide this function with the new camera. I don't want to hold down a button AND click on the the object in the overview - to me it's a step backwards.
Kind regards,
Dhugall |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:28:09 -
[357] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:Ashterothi wrote:Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review. That is such a cold point of view on which i'm not agree with at all. To take your example, the difference between a good and a bad interpreter would be if he's listening to that artist's music or not. So it goes for games, the difference between a good or a bad game would be if the code writer is playing this game or not. It is also known as "passion". Which transpires through the work created. Then emulates, or not.
Actually it-¦s no problem when the people who are coding don-¦t know a single thing about the gameplay. The problem is, that people who told them what to code failed hard to tell the coders what to do. For me it-¦s just lines of code these lines make my customer happy. I know what they are for and I know what the goal is but I can-¦t tell you if no tracking cam or tracking cam is good or bad for the game itself - to keep thing simple. I agree though, that if the coder actually plays the game he knows way better if his work is useful or not. |
Bozar Taelen
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
0
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:36:12 -
[358] - Quote
Can you please give us an option to get rid of the camera inertia when rotating (that is not speed btw) so we can get fps style rotating responsiveness. That would be a huge improvement for those who want more precise control of their view.
Thank you
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Kaldacin
Psyonic Legion
1
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:37:21 -
[359] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:[quote=Fzhal] Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want.
That would be a permanent OFF button.
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DlCard
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
24
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Posted - 2016.02.14 21:58:50 -
[360] - Quote
New camera is rough on my eyes. Give us the option to permanently keep the old camera
My Youtube Channel (PVP Vids)
http://www.youtube.com/user/DCard77
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