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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
137
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Posted - 2016.02.17 08:26:24 -
[541] - Quote
Video example uploading now (should be uploaded/processed in the next 30 minutes)
Issues included
- Zoom level of ship not persistent after gate jumping
- Wandering camera during items selection with the tracking camera
- Grid persistance around the 4:15 Mark
- Warp Flash (EBR has already been opened months ago for this one) around 4:11 mark
Edit - Rendering due to issues.
Link to be provided later.
@dominousnolen
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2152
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Posted - 2016.02.17 11:02:15 -
[542] - Quote
The camera option still need a lot of work and i hope we see constant changes until things are perfect. Currently the firs person camera is a waste of time but it does have potential. We need to be able to drag the camera around for a start.
When are we going to get the picture-in-picture camera we saw at one fanfest (or was that just another broken promise)?
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
5
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Posted - 2016.02.17 11:57:12 -
[543] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters <3 Now then, about this removing the old camera and not being able to right click and look around business?
Agreed - would be nice to have some feedback on the unnecessary removal of the right-click and pan/zoom feature, CCP Turtlepower... |
Elmis
The ill-advised Hermit Collective
8
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Posted - 2016.02.17 13:26:19 -
[544] - Quote
Excuse the poor video editing - it is not something I normally do.
I wanted to show the drastic difference between the old and new camera tracking.
The first clip is using the old camera, turning on tracking, and selecting objects on the overview. It is clean and clear movement.
https://youtu.be/WMG9tTd_Ej0
The second clip is using the new camera, [Shift] [C] to turn on tracking, and then selecting objects on the overview. The objects are not on the same horizon as in the first example, and I am zoomed in closer, which exaggerates the differences. That aside, I find it jarring and odd, with occasional stutters and seemingly different offsets on your ship.
https://youtu.be/CcqLxTa27QI
The third clip is an example of a bug. I am using the new camera tracking while viewing one of the citadel construction sites, not my ship. About mid way through the camera aligns to an object above and gets caught in a spinning loop until I select a new object. This has happened on occasion when viewing from my own ship, but I was never able to replicate it. The bug worked a number of times while looking at the new citadel so I grabbed a video. It is occasional bugs like that - plus the jumpy / stuttering / inconsistency in movement and offset etc which leave the new camera just feeling wrong to me.
https://youtu.be/mnsIjXpidLw |
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2016.02.17 14:30:11 -
[545] - Quote
Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.
In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.
I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?). |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
99
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Posted - 2016.02.17 14:52:02 -
[546] - Quote
Onamata Poeia wrote:Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.
In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.
I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?).
They sold us some of this "tracking stuff" as a new feature for some weird reason. Hopefully they will remove it or make it an option because else I am limited to station trading in EvE and that-¦s something I won-¦t do. Another thing that this sisters team hopefully understood by now is, that "look at" and "tracking" are not the same thing. Make "look at" an option that you can toggle is nice but we asked for "tracking" which they removed completely. With the old camera I can track an object, zoom and keep tracking it. The new camera doesn-¦t allow tracking but just "look at" and when I zoom everything is getting screwed. Was hoping to see some response by today but it seems they are not willing to respond. Hopefully that means they are actually working on changes the playerbase requested and not trying to add more fancy stuff.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33376
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Posted - 2016.02.17 17:19:24 -
[547] - Quote
Tengu
Role Bonus: has the old camera
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Raamah
Eschelon Directive
3
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Posted - 2016.02.17 19:07:44 -
[548] - Quote
I like the addition of tracking for the non-orbiting "orbit" camera, but it is objectively worse than the current tracking camera. I want to be able to choose tracking position, for one thing. For another, I don't want my ship constantly hovering on the left edge of the screen. I keep my d scan there! |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
157
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:00:13 -
[549] - Quote
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
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Mag's
Azn Empire
21314
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:08:08 -
[550] - Quote
nikar galvren wrote:Tippia wrote:GÇó GǪindeed, make all camera settings persistent. Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.
Oh, Dear God. Yes. So. Much. Yes. Indeed.
Please CCP for the love of god, make sure this new camera works like the old BEFORE you make it the only option available.
It's not rocket science.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
450
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:24:25 -
[551] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.
Daemun of Khanid
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
311
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:31:49 -
[552] - Quote
When you are looking straight up / straight down in the new camera and have the camera bobbing on the view just spins which is really disorientating. Fine I can just turn off the camera bobbing, just like I've turned off everything else in the new camera. But could you maybe just turn off this bonkers idea of removing the old camera before making the new one pleasant to use? |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
157
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Posted - 2016.02.17 21:44:41 -
[553] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.
It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. |
Fzhal
Tessaract Industries
36
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Posted - 2016.02.17 21:48:44 -
[554] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Fzhal wrote:The thing that I'm most unhappy about is the lack of capability (or maybe I just couldn't find it) to control the camera friction so that the camera didn't keep spinning after I moved it and kept holding the mouse button down in one spot so that it didn't keep spinning. Moving the "Camera Speed" slider toward "Fast" reduces the inertia of the camera. Note that the old camera continues to rotate after you stop moving it as well. It's not 100% damped. You can, with that setting, damp the camera rotation a whole lot more than the old camera's default, so play with it to see where you like it. I'm not on the team working on the camera, so I won't be able to answer questions about their plans for it. Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want. Thank you CCP Darwin.
CCP Team Psycho Sisters:
I have tried to do as CCP Darwin recommended, but found the feature frustratingly inadequate because I use a high mouse sensitivity setting. I have had these mouse settings for years, and I'm very adept with them. To get the desired inertial friction (at or near zero), your multiplicative camera speed setting must be set at 3.6 or above. I also noticed that your camera must have a built-in acceleration curve, which makes things even more difficult for people in my situation.
- Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth. I assume you do this so that someone on the 4x setting could use the camera without it being way too sensitive. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse. Once my acceleration curve kicks in, I've already exceeded your curve's max rate, which results in the camera/mouse speed movement speed jumping from around 800 DPI to four times that speed.
- My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI (pixels per inch), which means my mouse can cross a 1920 width screen with one inch (2.5cm) of lateral movement. Let's say I want to rotate my view 180 degrees quickly (180d = 500 pixels = 1.25cm mouse move in 0.5 seconds)... Your camera code generates inertia based on mouse speed. If I have camera speed set at 3, and manage the herculean task of releasing the click at the right moment, the camera rotates about an extra 90 degrees. When I set the camera speed to 4 and try to rotate my view 180 degrees, the camera multiplier (4) x (500) pixel distance means that my mouse would equivalently have traveled to the same spot on an adjoining monitor. Sure the camera stops immediately after the button is released, but it is back to facing the same (wrong) direction after 2 revolutions, and it has also managed to achieve 240 RPMs!
FYI: To serious gamers, mouse settings are a sacred thing. Before doing so, I'd recommend trying to set your mouse speed to be a quarter of its current speed and see how long you last.
Sincerely, Fzhal |
Elmis
The ill-advised Hermit Collective
12
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Posted - 2016.02.17 22:46:44 -
[555] - Quote
Fzhal wrote:... Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth.. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse.. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI
I hadn't considered the relationship between mouse speed and the new camera.
I use 2 x 4K monitors - with a combined resolution of 7,680 x 2160.
I run my EVE client in a window of 3,000 x 1800.
My mouse runs at 3,500 CPI. This allows me to cover the full screen real-estate from one side to the other moving the mouse less than 2 physical inches. (I don't have to lift my wrist or move my hand much.) The mouse has an acceleration curve of its own - so I can move slowly / make fine adjustments to position, or a little faster to have it shoot across the screen.
Is this why I haven't been able to find a setting with the new camera that feels half decent? Note - I have no issue at all with the old camera.
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adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
26
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Posted - 2016.02.17 23:05:08 -
[556] - Quote
I cannot play with this new camera, I get so awfully nauseous that it is impossible to play!
----True oldschool solo pvp'er----
My latest vid: Insanity IV
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Chrome Veinss
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2016.02.17 23:54:55 -
[557] - Quote
The autotracking toggle addition was great but tracking things is still really messed up compared with tracking in the old camera. I dont want the camera to reposition and sloppily slingshot the view of my ship in a random direction out of view or behind UI elements every single time i track something. Just bring back the center tracking position on your ship and you will almost have an usable camera, the rest is bug fixes and polish
Also the horizontal vs vertical ratio feels very restricting. We play this game in 3d, we need to be able to move the camera vertically and horizontally the same way. Its not a gamebreaker for me but if you keep it you will have made your game objectivelly worse |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
834
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Posted - 2016.02.18 00:01:46 -
[558] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned.
Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
12
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Posted - 2016.02.18 00:08:39 -
[559] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned. Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game. As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
834
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Posted - 2016.02.18 01:53:43 -
[560] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned. Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game. As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command. Using the macro is against the EULA. Not how it is used or why.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
327
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Posted - 2016.02.18 02:02:53 -
[561] - Quote
Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll?
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
12
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Posted - 2016.02.18 02:12:13 -
[562] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll? That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
328
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Posted - 2016.02.18 02:14:36 -
[563] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Lfod Shi wrote:Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll? That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too.
Unfortunately, disabling that didn't help me at all. Only thing that works for me is the old cam.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
451
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Posted - 2016.02.18 02:32:19 -
[564] - Quote
Programming keyboard shortcuts to input devices while technically considered a macro is not against eula. Whats against eula is programming a set of muliple actions to take place with a single press which creates an advantage. Its been confirmed a gazillion times so dont spout paranoid bologna.
Daemun of Khanid
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Fzhal
Tessaract Industries
38
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Posted - 2016.02.18 02:50:05 -
[565] - Quote
Elmis wrote:Fzhal wrote:... Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth.. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse.. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI I hadn't considered the relationship between mouse speed and the new camera. I use 2 x 4K monitors - with a combined resolution of 7,680 x 2160. I run my EVE client in a window of 3,000 x 1800. My mouse runs at 3,500 CPI. This allows me to cover the full screen real-estate from one side to the other moving the mouse less than 2 physical inches. (I don't have to lift my wrist or move my hand much.) The mouse has an acceleration curve of its own - so I can move slowly / make fine adjustments to position, or a little faster to have it shoot across the screen. Is this why I haven't been able to find a setting with the new camera that feels half decent? Note - I have no issue at all with the old camera. Correct. You suffer from the same two things I pointed out. It is precisely what makes it impossible for us to configure the camera settings appropriately. |
Octavius Gaius
nul-li-fy I N F A M O U S
3
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Posted - 2016.02.18 03:28:44 -
[566] - Quote
I dont care if the sky box gets blurry at max zoom, give the new camera just as much FOV zoom as the old camera (ctrl+r+L mouse then move mouse to right) I use the max zoom of the old camera to perfectly align insta-undocks even more important now with the huge grid sizes. |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
128
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Posted - 2016.02.18 06:31:38 -
[567] - Quote
Not fit for purpose, Call the guy that wrote the code and tell him he's fired. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
452
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Posted - 2016.02.18 06:55:00 -
[568] - Quote
In the end I think this new camera will be fine. CCP seem willing to make changes that ppl are asking for and have been pushing out big fixes for it every patch. It's just disappointing given how long this was on test server that it was rushed on to live in the state it was.
Point for point the things that people have been complaining of in this thread and in GD were all reported on the test server feedback thread. The functionality issues, the bugs, dscan, offset, mouse sensitivity and zoom speeds. All of it. Yet it was seemingly ignored and they made it optional on live. No one used it but we kept reporting the issues on the only thread on the subject available in test server forums and tried to make ppl aware of the issue and get them to test it. The last time I posted in GD asking ppl to get on the test server, try it out and respond in the feedback thread the thread was locked for not being in the feedback thread. Then they went and made it opt out and as predicted the tears came rolling in and their first response was "we're making it mandatory in 1 month."
Why did it take until NOW to start changing these things and start fixing the bugs we'd been reporting for months? I really want to be supportive of them on this change as I can see how, particularly with the tactical camera, it will be needed in the future for cap changes. The way they've gone about it though has been borderline offensive. Why ask us for feedback and ignore it? I understand you have to take player feedback with a grain of salt and make decisions based on information the player base may not have but when you don't even fix reported bugs and functionality issues it seems more like we were blown off completely.
Daemun of Khanid
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
69
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Posted - 2016.02.18 10:56:12 -
[569] - Quote
They never ignored player feedbacks man. Really.
I think you did not test New Camera since its first release on SiSi, because A LOT has changed since now. A LOT.
Even though it still needs tweaks, they did quite a good job taking player requests in count and multiple changes have been made according them.
It's still one month until next patch, a lot can still change, and they can still cancel the 'mandatory' thing.
Build constructive feedbacks, and stop complaining (<-- not about YOU specificly, that's a general advice to any one who is not ok with new camera) like spoiled kids who want their camera BACK NAO.
That won't help the game go ahead. |
Heidi Franklin
Blind Assault Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2016.02.18 14:48:42 -
[570] - Quote
I would like to point out that not only do I want the old tracking camera functionality but i want the ability to SET A CUSTOM TRACKING POSITION. This weird offset you have put in place is awful and essentially places my ship either off camera when tracking or behind my chat windows and its driving me CRAZY. (In case your english is off driving me crazy is not a good thing)
Also I do understand how the new camera is vomit inducing. It really is a problem. CCP, you need to take a good look into the issues people are having and make sure they are fixed before forcing a horrible change on us. |
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