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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
636
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Posted - 2016.02.09 22:58:11 -
[31] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Because it would be too overpowered. And you are supposed to actual think about what you want to train for. You shouldn't wastefully through potential sp away. Simple as ******* can be. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
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Posted - 2016.02.09 23:11:19 -
[32] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun... Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep. I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? Not calling everyone sheep, just you. loss is essential. isk is too easy to get, without sp loss you could reconfigure your chars constantly whenever you needed to fly or fit something. well the rich could which woukd be pretty imba
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1105
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Posted - 2016.02.09 23:16:10 -
[33] - Quote
I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be serving the market. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4683
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Posted - 2016.02.09 23:25:11 -
[34] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Game balance?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
66
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Posted - 2016.02.10 00:12:19 -
[35] - Quote
Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines? A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4684
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Posted - 2016.02.10 00:38:31 -
[36] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines? A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
Of course I think it is intentional. Totally and complete intentional. CCP has deliberately put in an SP sink into the game.
Oh and historical point of interest...J.D. Rockefeller...was a huge proponent of improving efficiency at his refineries. He was quite good at it. For example, where other refineries dumped gasoline into rivers and treated it as waste, he had his plants set up to use it to run machinery. His company also marketed another byproduct as well...vasoline.
Oh, and Rockefeller was refining to produce kerosene, not gasoline initially. Whale oil was rather pricey. During Rockefeller's tenure as the head of Standard Oil, kerosene prices dropped dramatically.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
612
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Posted - 2016.02.10 00:48:54 -
[37] - Quote
pajedas wrote:CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Yep, that's why they removed SP loss on clone death not too long ago.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1286
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Posted - 2016.02.10 01:05:29 -
[38] - Quote
The number of SP in the game will go down, yes. But the bigger picture is that there are thousands of characters doing **** all right now. Those characters will now be sucked dry and new characters that are going to buy up the skills and help make it easy for new players. New players that will be spending money on the game now.
internet spaceships
are serious business sir.
and don't forget it
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Jessica23Atreides
Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2016.02.10 01:46:12 -
[39] - Quote
Who cares if there is a 20% drop across the board. I don't need Mining III to fly my Tengu and indy players don't need Surgical Strike V to fly an Orca.
The whole idea is to begin to close the gap between 2003 players and some kid who happens to see a 21-day free-trial for Eve in the corner on RealityKings tomorrow afternoon. Veteran players reward = tonz.TONZ.T O N Z of ISK and the ability to re-spec their toon or polish off those damn specialization skills we all have sitting at IV. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
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Posted - 2016.02.10 01:47:23 -
[40] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines? A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
theres mothing political about a mechanic thats designed to reduce (not eliminate) sucking out a skill when you wanna fly a specific ship with fittings at max skill then injecting them back later. some people have trillions of isk, no SP loss would make it much to easy to reconfigure skills whenever you wanted to. with SP loss theres a penalty to using your own sp rather than buying it from others.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jessica23Atreides
Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2016.02.10 01:53:33 -
[41] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be training sp purely for sale.
Nope. PLEX prices will soon make it a losing practice. They will have to pay RL$ to keep accounts subbed more than they will earn enough to PLEX. Probably a 2:3 ratio when the market settles. PLEX = AUR = Extractors (or are injectors on the NES)
PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas.
o/ Have fun farming!! |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1094
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Posted - 2016.02.10 05:30:09 -
[42] - Quote
I seriously doubt there'll be a net loss of SP. Skill training will still probably contribute to more gain of SP than any net loss from extraction and injection. Even if it doesn't, why does it matter? |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2016.02.10 05:48:20 -
[43] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
People like the OP clearly don't bother reading it. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4684
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Posted - 2016.02.10 06:00:45 -
[44] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:Aptenodytes wrote:I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
People like the OP clearly don't bother reading it.
So let's help him, the idea of diminishing marginal returns is to keep players from going form 500,000 SP to 200,000,000 without incurring a significant cost--i.e. it is a game balance issue.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
278
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Posted - 2016.02.10 12:40:01 -
[45] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
this is to avoid further abuse in respeccing your "build" to the fotm ship (pvp), science skills (for production/invention), etc anytime, so that decision/consequence still matters.
Just Add Water
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
79
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Posted - 2016.02.10 16:40:22 -
[46] - Quote
Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
Think, "Big Picture".
Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!
Those skills were paid for through monthly subscriptions, plain and simple. (Most of you never even knew training before the Training Queue) You actually had to log in all the time to check/change your skills. I remember calling my wife from work and walking her through the process.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
You can't have it both ways and you can't explain away the science behind it.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
617
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Posted - 2016.02.10 16:43:30 -
[47] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
Think, "Big Picture".
Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!
Those skills were paid for through monthly subscriptions, plain and simple. (Most of you never even knew training before the Training Queue) You actually had to log in all the time to check/change your skills. I remember calling my wife from work and walking her through the process.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
You can't have it both ways and you can't explain away the science behind it.
I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
95
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Posted - 2016.02.10 16:47:33 -
[48] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point. No, I'm very serious.
We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it.
Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
618
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Posted - 2016.02.10 16:53:23 -
[49] - Quote
pajedas wrote:No, I'm very serious.
We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it.
Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:02:08 -
[50] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining. How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"?
Go bother someone else as you are not answering my question, you're just trolling.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:02:25 -
[51] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point. No, I'm very serious. We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it. Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
The only way you will lose is if you are transferring from one of your characters to another of your characters. Which isn't really their main purpose, more like a side effect of the new system. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1843
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:03:08 -
[52] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining. How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"? Go bother someone else as you are not answering my question, you're just trolling.
Your question has been thoroughly answered. The fact that you didn't like the answer does not mean it was not answered.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
618
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:10:20 -
[53] - Quote
pajedas wrote:How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"?
Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me.
Following your logic, anyone who chooses to biomass a character is being cheated by CCP
Anyone who chooses to not fly with +5 learning implants is being cheated by CCP
Anyone who forgets to activate their skill queue after jump cloning is being cheated by CCP |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
367
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:15:38 -
[54] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"? Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me. Following your logic, anyone who chooses to biomass a character is being cheated by CCP Anyone who chooses to not fly with +5 learning implants is being cheated by CCP Anyone who forgets to activate their skill queue after jump cloning is being cheated by CCP
Relax, friend. He's an anti-ganker. Crying is in their nature. Heck, I bet, his blood is roughly 31.5 percent saline! |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:17:59 -
[55] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me. You're awfully passionate about a, "non-issue".
If it's so stupid why do you feel it necessary to KEEP commenting on it?
Like you say about skill trading, it's your choice to participate.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1614
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Posted - 2016.02.10 17:32:27 -
[56] - Quote
I've removed some off-topic/trolling/personal posts and those quoting them.
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1108
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Posted - 2016.02.10 18:00:32 -
[57] - Quote
Jessica23Atreides wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be training sp purely for sale. Nope. PLEX prices will soon make it a losing practice. They will have to pay RL$ to keep accounts subbed more than they will earn enough to PLEX. Probably a 2:3 ratio when the market settles. PLEX = AUR = Extractors (or are injectors on the NES) PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas. o/ Have fun farming!!
bs extractor price is directly bound to plex. Does PLEX price rise, so does the other. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
83
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Posted - 2016.02.10 20:07:25 -
[58] - Quote
Xyle Alduin wrote:CCP you give us something new, but i want more! if we want to go as far as a 1:1 sp transfer, might as well do a 1:5. i want to take a million sp from my alt and give 5mil to my main! jesus man, your like my daughter. we give her a raise in her allowance by 50% and instead of being happy she starts trying to ask for another 50%.
As soon as she does that, you should not give her the raise, but instead deduct 50% for the next 3 months. See if she asks for more next time you give her something. |
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
223
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Posted - 2016.02.10 20:18:06 -
[59] - Quote
Jessica23Atreides wrote:PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas.
Good.
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Gauis Aldent
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
12
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Posted - 2016.02.10 21:00:59 -
[60] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb. So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
Except, nobody is saying that. SP in your head is 1:1 SP in your head.
What they are saying is, if you decide to inject more SP in your head through these new highly acclerated methods, that there is a diminishing return involved. You can't just inject and inject and inject and expect it to keep working like it did the first time. There is a reason normal skill training is slow.
In the end.... its just a new option with a new cost. You don't like the cost, feel free not to do it, I probably wont either.
Yes its a new option which CCP has chosen to offer us and monetize....but... its a new option to do something we have been able to do for a long time. Every character sale on the bazar is essentially an SP transfer, and one with no diminishment.
This really changes very little. My only peve is the same one I have with plex, why make it an in game item at all if you don't mean it to work like one? No remote injection! I want people undocking with full injectors and carting them around for the market asap! |
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