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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
699
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Posted - 2016.02.09 22:49:28 -
[1] - Quote
This speculation might be based an a dated understanding of game mechanics, if so don't kick me too hard.
There are some skills that have actually had situational benefits from not being trained up. Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. A hauler alt might benefit from having lower navigation and thus lower align time.
Drone Navigation. Faster drones orbit at faster velocity and result in lower damage applied. A lower DN might be prefrred.
Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip.
Tactical Shield Manipulation - There used to be cases made for not training this up.
There might be other skills with speculative benefits for training them down, which was never an option before.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6941
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Posted - 2016.02.10 02:01:38 -
[2] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:There are some skills that have actually had situational benefits from not being trained up. Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. ....
Iria Ahrens wrote:Tactical Shield Manipulation - There used to be cases made for not training this up. Not up to V yeah. But who doesn't love them some tech 2 shield hardeners.
it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players
http://eveboard.com/ranks
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1085
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Posted - 2016.02.10 02:17:38 -
[3] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:There are some skills that have actually had situational benefits from not being trained up. Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. A hauler alt might benefit from having lower navigation and thus lower align time.
Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip.
Very situational. Navigation has never been an issue at Evasive Manoeuvering V. I prefer more speed to burn to a target, even on a hauler. Regarding warp drive operation, there's the option to drain your cap, if you have the time to prepare. If it is an issue, you'll also need to consider cap sys op and cap management.
Iria Ahrens wrote:Tactical Shield Manipulation - There used to be cases made for not training this up.
Actually looking forward to this. I have an alt where I somehow accidentally managed to put Tactical Shield Manipulation V in the queue and not become aware of the error.
Remove insurance.
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Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2663
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Posted - 2016.02.10 02:29:54 -
[4] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. A hauler alt might benefit from having lower navigation and thus lower align time. This is wrong. Time to warp calculation involves mass and agility but not max speed. Negative modifiers (webs) do make a difference of course but this is different to affecting base max speed with skills.
And yes, it is counter-intuitive.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1832
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Posted - 2016.02.10 02:54:29 -
[5] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Time to warp calculation involves mass and agility but not max speed. Negative modifiers (webs) do make a difference of course but this is different to affecting base max speed with skills.
Weeelll... negative modifiers work the exact same way - they don't alter the actual time it would take to get into warp from a standstill at all.
The reason applying a web scoots something into warp faster is because it's already been accelerating at its normal top speed and normal acceleration. The web just drops the top speed, pushing it over the 75% threshold. It also drops the acceleration by just as much, but it doesn't matter since the target is already going fast enough.
If the web were first applied before acceleration began, time to warp would be unaffected.
TL;DR, changes to max velocity alone do not change the acceleration curve relative to max velocity.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
402
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Posted - 2016.02.10 03:01:22 -
[6] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:This speculation might be based an a dated understanding of game mechanics, if so don't kick me too hard.
There are some skills that have actually had situational benefits from not being trained up. Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. A hauler alt might benefit from having lower navigation and thus lower align time. Max sub-warp velocity does not effect align time.
Quote:Drone Navigation. Faster drones orbit at faster velocity and result in lower damage applied. A lower DN might be prefrred. Drone Navigation does not effect drone orbit speed.
Quote:Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip. A pilot wanting to avoid being caught by bubbles better have tactical bookmarks, or warp between random celestials to establish mid-warp tacs. Relying on low cap would be terribly, terribly unreliable.
Quote:Tactical Shield Manipulation - There used to be cases made for not training this up. True. I only have it to IV for this reason.
Quote:There might be other skills with speculative benefits for training them down, which was never an option before. I can't think of anything except Tactical Shield Manipulation.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
700
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Posted - 2016.02.10 03:23:06 -
[7] - Quote
Thank you for the replies and for correcting my misunderstandings about the basic mechanics. Never stop learning in this game.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2966
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Posted - 2016.02.10 03:34:56 -
[8] - Quote
Tactical Shield Manipulation is the only skill in that list that it's true about. |
Nuclear Nut Zack
CK-0FF Bad Intention
4
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Posted - 2016.02.10 05:33:35 -
[9] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip. At some point you have to arrive at your destination and the drag bubbles will still catch you. All that would accomplish is making the warp take longer and leaving you with less cap if you do get caught. If you need to shake someone following you, just warp to a random moon or something they won't expect from your direction and make a safe along the way, then warp back to the safe. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
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Posted - 2016.02.10 06:20:14 -
[10] - Quote
Nuclear Nut Zack wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip. At some point you have to arrive at your destination and the drag bubbles will still catch you. All that would accomplish is making the warp take longer and leaving you with less cap if you do get caught. If you need to shake someone following you, just warp to a random moon or something they won't expect from your direction and make a safe along the way, then warp back to the safe. there are times you find yourself in a system where you have no bms and need to drain cap to get close enough to a gate to scan it. some are outside of scanner range. obviously if theres a camp n bubbles on the gate youre not gonna warp to it. usually just run aux repper witjout chargers or mwd, warp, hit stop.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2668
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Posted - 2016.02.10 06:54:21 -
[11] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Nuclear Nut Zack wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:Warp Drive Operation. A pilot might want to drop out of warp and be harder to catch with bubbles. Maybe a drag bubble can't suck you in if your ship can't power itself the entire trip. At some point you have to arrive at your destination and the drag bubbles will still catch you. All that would accomplish is making the warp take longer and leaving you with less cap if you do get caught. If you need to shake someone following you, just warp to a random moon or something they won't expect from your direction and make a safe along the way, then warp back to the safe. there are times you find yourself in a system where you have no bms and need to drain cap to get close enough to a gate to scan it. some are outside of scanner range. obviously if theres a camp n bubbles on the gate youre not gonna warp to it. usually just run aux repper witjout chargers or mwd, warp, hit stop. Never thought of that. Very cool.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1094
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Posted - 2016.02.10 06:59:20 -
[12] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:This speculation might be based an a dated understanding of game mechanics, if so don't kick me too hard.
There are some skills that have actually had situational benefits from not being trained up. Navigation for example. Ships align time is based off 70% max velocity. Thus putting skill into navigation actually hurts align time. A hauler alt might benefit from having lower navigation and thus lower align time. Uh, no. Your max speed does not have any effect on how long it takes to get up to that speed. If I have a ship that goes 200 m/s and a ship that goes 500 m/s, both with the same mass and agility modifier, they will both take the same amount of time to align to 75% max velocity and warp. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
705
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Posted - 2016.02.10 15:12:10 -
[13] - Quote
Thank you for the explanations. Ultimately, I'd lather learn correct game mechanics than have my pet theory vindicated. Although having people agree with me now and again is nice.
This is not intuitive though. If Two ships with different max speeds have the same mass and agility modifier, they should not take the same time to reach different speeds. But looking at the equation, there is no value for max velocity, so unless ship's agility or inertial modifier are derived from max velocity, then it truly does not matter.
Good to know. Now I have to find out how ship's agility and inertia are computed.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Sustainable Whaling Inc.
66
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Posted - 2016.02.10 20:50:55 -
[14] - Quote
What's this with Tactical Shield Manipulation? Someone care to elaborate to a hull tanker? :P
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
111
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Posted - 2016.02.11 08:06:35 -
[15] - Quote
When I started today the basketball goal was ten feet off the ground. Now, it's just a foot and a half and I can look straight down the pipe without jumping! (I thought I'd never be able to slam dunk!)
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4951
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Posted - 2016.02.11 10:02:28 -
[16] - Quote
Defender Missiles. There's no benefit in training it past 0.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
631
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Posted - 2016.02.11 10:26:55 -
[17] - Quote
The irony is that now with larger grids getting on grid by killing cap for warps is more possible to accomplish than it ever used to be with the smaller grids. Itd be a lot easier to hit a larger target this way.
But yeah everyones answered the other questions already so nothing to add there.
Imam: Have you heard anything I've said?
Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
Imam: That's right.
Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
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