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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 13:23:45 -
[181] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote: Why do you feel that Hi-Sec should be self sustainable?
because its always been a bit self sustainable. when ccp changed the static ice belts into ice anomalies they said that fuel sustainability in highsec would be around 4/5 out of that wich was needed. After these changes its not gonna be even 1/5 cause you get so damn little strontium in highsec. look im not trying to say we should be 100% self sustainable. But if we cant mine any decent amount of fuel here att all then highsec cant be home to all the structures that are gonna come. listen im not trying to **** you off here. im just saying that we need to be able to providefor ourselves a little. what if all the strontium in highsec gets brought up? if it runs out and null sec dosent sell any to high anymore? we will be in trouble then! Highsec has never been self-sustainable. You can't get zydrine or megacyte from highsec at all -- it has to come from without. Same for moongoo. you can get zydrine from highsec mining anomalies. and megacyte from mission running. again not enough for 100% self sustaining. but i said i dont want highsec to be 100% self sustainable. but dont lie and say you cant get any att all. cause thats not true. They removed megacyte from missions, if I remember correctly.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
38
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Posted - 2016.02.13 14:07:41 -
[182] - Quote
So how is one susposed to aquire enough strontium to make blocks.
krystallos gives the most stront at 145 after refine. Okay nice but it also gives 580 LO. While i Only need 160 LO vs 200 stront.
So to import enough strontium I will have to overbuy LO by 4 times I need. And then we didnt even started getting Heavy Water or the Isotopes which will also come with their own supply of LO. So its more like you will end up with like 6 to 8 times teh amount of LO required.
And importing raw strontium from jita isnt really feasable either, because A there isnt alot in there, and B its still big as **** |
Basjee
Dirt Farmers Inc.
1
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Posted - 2016.02.13 14:25:42 -
[183] - Quote
So now the game includes two new features - any sufficiently moneyed noob can skill to the same level as a two year old toon in days, and to level the playing field between noobs and veteran players anyone can sport fancy new space stations anywhere in hisec. I'm not completely sure it's worth even trying to skill anything anymore - just wait a couple of years and start a new account - as time in game is now meaningless. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1465
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Posted - 2016.02.13 15:27:15 -
[184] - Quote
So it sounds like fuel block costs will be going up with the stront addition, so the current poses will become more expensive to operate. Will the fuel consumption on those be reduced to compensate?
Also, will it be possible for a weapon operator in a citadel to get the citadel Concorded? What kind of safety feature or target limiting will apply to that?
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 15:42:57 -
[185] - Quote
Basjee wrote:So now the game includes two new features - any sufficiently moneyed noob can skill to the same level as a two year old toon in days, and to level the playing field between noobs and veteran players anyone can sport fancy new space stations anywhere in hisec. I'm not completely sure it's worth even trying to skill anything anymore - just wait a couple of years and start a new account - as time in game is now meaningless. The character bazaar has made Eve this way for years. Nothing has changed.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2016.02.13 16:05:07 -
[186] - Quote
Tyranis Marcus wrote:So it sounds like fuel block costs will be going up with the stront addition, so the current poses will become more expensive to operate. Will the fuel consumption on those be reduced to compensate?.................
It would be kind of silly if they did - given the realistic desire to wish to encourage people to remove POSes in favour of Citadels.
Which is why, perhaps, that the 'Assembly Arrays' and 'Drilling Rigs' may need to come sooner rather than later...
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
84
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Posted - 2016.02.13 16:10:21 -
[187] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alright, update regarding the stront numbers:
- We're going to decrease required stront numbers from 400 to 200 for a batch of 40 fuel blocks.
- Stront volume is being decreased from 3 to 2m3.
- Stront consumption of triage and siege modules will increase by 50% to compensate. This puts consumption at 375m3 for Siege Modules and 375 / 300 for Triage I / II
- Entosis Links are not affected.
Edit: also renaming fuel blocks from racial fuel block to isotope fuel block, should reduce confusion since the new structures don't have different racial themes.
- Helium Fuel Block, Nitrogen Fuel Block, Oxygen Fuel Block, Hydrogen Fuel Block
I spent a big chunk of last night looking at the numbers for strontium in the various ice anomalies across New Eden and working out how the inclusion of Strontium in fuel blocks would affect fuel production, and the very TL;DR is that 200 Stront/40 blocks isn't sustainable with current ice makeup.
Here is the Google Spreadsheet I made to keep track of the various numbers as I went through each stage from ice to fuel blocks and how much each anomaly can support, plus what it over-produces. Since I'm not sure how much sense it's going to make to other people, I'll explain it here:
Currently (IE without strontium in fuel blocks) hisec and lowsec ice anomalies are capped in how many fuel blocks they can produce by the amount of Liquid Ozone in their ice. That means that they over-produce heavy water and racial isotopes, some of which gets used for jump drives or Industrial Cores, some of which gets exported to null. Nullsec ice anomalies are the opposite, their fuel block production is capped by the availability of racial isotopes, meaning they over-produce liquid ozone and heavy water, some of which gets used in cynos and jump bridges, some of which gets exported to hisec (or combined with racial isotopes imported from hisec). Thus null and high exchange resources the other lacks and the invisible hand of economics keeps everyone busy doing their thing.
With the addition of Strontium to fuel blocks, that all flies out the window - at 200 stront per 40 blocks, Stront becomes the single limiter for how many blocks can be produced per anomaly in all classes of space. Every other ice product is over-production - to a ridiculous extent in the case of hisec anomalies (enough racial isotopes for 77.8k blocks, not enough stront for 400) but also to a significant extent in both varieties of nullsec anomaly as well. This is compounded by the fact that there's no effective way to cherry-pick the "good" ice in nullsec - the only way to respawn an anomaly is to completely clear it of all ice and then wait 4 hours, so overproduction of non-stront ice products is an unavoidable by-product of maximising stront production.
More important than how much this will mess up the economy for ice products (massive spike in Stront prices, sharp drop in value for every other ice product), the numbers for how many fuel blocks New Eden as a whole can produce are going to fall way, way down. Looking only at local production (IE ignoring the fact that hisec and nullsec can currently trade their overproduction with one another to make even more fuel, which won't be the case with a stront bottleneck), hisec, lowsec and nullsec anomalies in 0.0 to -0.5 truesec systems will all be down to producing less than 10% of the fuel blocks they're currently able to produce, while even the -0.5 and lower truesec null anomalies will be down to 20% of their present day limit. I'm sure that nullsec ice is under-utilized compared to hisec, but even if that changed to the extent that every anomaly was cleared 5 times per day (more-or-less peak production given the 4 hour respawn time for each anomaly) there's no way it could make up for that 80-90% drop off in potential production. |
Circumstantial Evidence
257
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Posted - 2016.02.13 16:29:13 -
[188] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alright, update regarding the stront numbers:
- We're going to decrease required stront numbers from 400 to 200 for a batch of 40 fuel blocks.
- Stront volume is being decreased from 3 to 2m3.
- Stront consumption of triage and siege modules will increase by 50% to compensate. This puts consumption at 375m3 for Siege Modules and 375 / 300 for Triage I / II
- Entosis Links are not affected.
Still seems to ask POS operators to pay more for fuel in order to support removal of stront reinforcement by Citadels, before all POS are removed. These systems will operate in parallel for a long time. Increases POS reinforcement time window. Perhaps POS operators could think of extended RF timing as a benefit, for their increased expenses?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1904
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 17:23:01 -
[189] - Quote
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alright, update regarding the stront numbers:
- We're going to decrease required stront numbers from 400 to 200 for a batch of 40 fuel blocks.
- Stront volume is being decreased from 3 to 2m3.
- Stront consumption of triage and siege modules will increase by 50% to compensate. This puts consumption at 375m3 for Siege Modules and 375 / 300 for Triage I / II
- Entosis Links are not affected.
Edit: also renaming fuel blocks from racial fuel block to isotope fuel block, should reduce confusion since the new structures don't have different racial themes.
- Helium Fuel Block, Nitrogen Fuel Block, Oxygen Fuel Block, Hydrogen Fuel Block
I spent a big chunk of last night looking at the numbers for strontium in the various ice anomalies across New Eden and working out how the inclusion of Strontium in fuel blocks would affect fuel production, and the very TL;DR is that 200 Stront/40 blocks isn't sustainable with current ice makeup. Here is the Google Spreadsheet I made to keep track of the various numbers as I went through each stage from ice to fuel blocks and how much each anomaly can support, plus what it over-produces. Since I'm not sure how much sense it's going to make to other people, I'll explain it here: Currently (IE without strontium in fuel blocks) hisec and lowsec ice anomalies are capped in how many fuel blocks they can produce by the amount of Liquid Ozone in their ice. That means that they over-produce heavy water and racial isotopes, some of which gets used for jump drives or Industrial Cores, some of which gets exported to null. Nullsec ice anomalies are the opposite, their fuel block production is capped by the availability of racial isotopes, meaning they over-produce liquid ozone and heavy water, some of which gets used in cynos and jump bridges, some of which gets exported to hisec (or combined with racial isotopes imported from hisec). Thus null and high exchange resources the other lacks and the invisible hand of economics keeps everyone busy doing their thing. With the addition of Strontium to fuel blocks, that all flies out the window - at 200 stront per 40 blocks, Stront becomes the single limiter for how many blocks can be produced per anomaly in all classes of space. Every other ice product is over-production - to a ridiculous extent in the case of hisec anomalies (enough racial isotopes for 77.8k blocks, not enough stront for 400) but also to a significant extent in both varieties of nullsec anomaly as well. This is compounded by the fact that there's no effective way to cherry-pick the "good" ice in nullsec - the only way to respawn an anomaly is to completely clear it of all ice and then wait 4 hours, so overproduction of non-stront ice products is an unavoidable by-product of maximising stront production. More important than how much this will mess up the economy for ice products (massive spike in Stront prices, sharp drop in value for every other ice product), the numbers for how many fuel blocks New Eden as a whole can produce are going to fall way, way down. Looking only at local production (IE ignoring the fact that hisec and nullsec can currently trade their overproduction with one another to make even more fuel, which won't be the case with a stront bottleneck), hisec, lowsec and nullsec anomalies in 0.0 to -0.5 truesec systems will all be down to producing less than 10% of the fuel blocks they're currently able to produce, while even the -0.5 and lower truesec null anomalies will be down to 20% of their present day limit. I'm sure that nullsec ice is under-utilized compared to hisec, but even if that changed to the extent that every anomaly was cleared 5 times per day (more-or-less peak production given the 4 hour respawn time for each anomaly) there's no way it could make up for that 80-90% drop off in potential production.
Good stuff. I had been comparing market volume of fuel blocks Vs. strontium and, even if you assume only half of the fuel moved on the market is actually consumed, the numbers looked absurd.
The stated intent was:
Quote:Since Citadels donGÇÖt use Strontium Clathrates for their reinforcement mode, we will add this particular material into the composition of the four existing fuel blocks to maintain its demand.
But from what I can tell, total stront consumption (not just what is consumed by reinforcement, but all of it), at present, doesn't even BEGIN to approach a ratio of 5:1 with fuel block consumption. This does not seem to "maintain demand" so much as "create a brand new, very tight demand bottleneck".
It would be nice to know the true universal consumption rate of fuel blocks and stront. I would ASSUME they had at least looked at those values before coming up with this, but from what I can tell they just pulled a number out of a hat and said, "EH, 400 should do it. No? you guys don't like that? So... 200?"
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:07:29 -
[190] - Quote
Stront use in citidels has to be higher than current use because currently it is a garbage byproduct ice, rather than the King Of Ices like it was supposed to be. |
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Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
84
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:14:01 -
[191] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Stront use in citidels has to be higher than current use because currently it is a garbage byproduct ice, rather than the King Of Ices like it was supposed to be.
I'm sorry, but you seem to have missed the slightly important point that the proposed stront use vastly out-strips stront production across all of New Eden. |
Kazaheid Zaknafein
Legio IX Ferox
31
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:18:24 -
[192] - Quote
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Stront use in citidels has to be higher than current use because currently it is a garbage byproduct ice, rather than the King Of Ices like it was supposed to be. I'm sorry, but you seem to have missed the slightly important point that the proposed stront use vastly out-strips stront production across all of New Eden.
This is why they need to find a happy balance between absurdity and uselessness. They need to find an ammount that uses less stront than can actually be produced. With the current numbers and ratios offered, we will literally burn out all the ice in game and not have enough fuel to actually run anything.
But on a side note, how many citadels will actually be burning fuel, without having any services onlined you can have your battle station in space with its mooring system and all; and consume absolutely 0 fuel. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:22:21 -
[193] - Quote
Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote: Why do you feel that Hi-Sec should be self sustainable?
because its always been a bit self sustainable. when ccp changed the static ice belts into ice anomalies they said that fuel sustainability in highsec would be around 4/5 out of that wich was needed. After these changes its not gonna be even 1/5 cause you get so damn little strontium in highsec. look im not trying to say we should be 100% self sustainable. But if we cant mine any decent amount of fuel here att all then highsec cant be home to all the structures that are gonna come. listen im not trying to **** you off here. im just saying that we need to be able to providefor ourselves a little. what if all the strontium in highsec gets brought up? if it runs out and null sec dosent sell any to high anymore? we will be in trouble then! Highsec has never been self-sustainable. You can't get zydrine or megacyte from highsec at all -- it has to come from without. Same for moongoo. you can get zydrine from highsec mining anomalies. and megacyte from mission running. again not enough for 100% self sustaining. but i said i dont want highsec to be 100% self sustainable. but dont lie and say you cant get any att all. cause thats not true. They removed megacyte from missions, if I remember correctly.
you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:28:01 -
[194] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jinrai Tremaine wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alright, update regarding the stront numbers:
- We're going to decrease required stront numbers from 400 to 200 for a batch of 40 fuel blocks.
- Stront volume is being decreased from 3 to 2m3.
- Stront consumption of triage and siege modules will increase by 50% to compensate. This puts consumption at 375m3 for Siege Modules and 375 / 300 for Triage I / II
- Entosis Links are not affected.
Edit: also renaming fuel blocks from racial fuel block to isotope fuel block, should reduce confusion since the new structures don't have different racial themes.
- Helium Fuel Block, Nitrogen Fuel Block, Oxygen Fuel Block, Hydrogen Fuel Block
I spent a big chunk of last night looking at the numbers for strontium in the various ice anomalies across New Eden and working out how the inclusion of Strontium in fuel blocks would affect fuel production, and the very TL;DR is that 200 Stront/40 blocks isn't sustainable with current ice makeup. Here is the Google Spreadsheet I made to keep track of the various numbers as I went through each stage from ice to fuel blocks and how much each anomaly can support, plus what it over-produces. Since I'm not sure how much sense it's going to make to other people, I'll explain it here: Currently (IE without strontium in fuel blocks) hisec and lowsec ice anomalies are capped in how many fuel blocks they can produce by the amount of Liquid Ozone in their ice. That means that they over-produce heavy water and racial isotopes, some of which gets used for jump drives or Industrial Cores, some of which gets exported to null. Nullsec ice anomalies are the opposite, their fuel block production is capped by the availability of racial isotopes, meaning they over-produce liquid ozone and heavy water, some of which gets used in cynos and jump bridges, some of which gets exported to hisec (or combined with racial isotopes imported from hisec). Thus null and high exchange resources the other lacks and the invisible hand of economics keeps everyone busy doing their thing. With the addition of Strontium to fuel blocks, that all flies out the window - at 200 stront per 40 blocks, Stront becomes the single limiter for how many blocks can be produced per anomaly in all classes of space. Every other ice product is over-production - to a ridiculous extent in the case of hisec anomalies (enough racial isotopes for 77.8k blocks, not enough stront for 400) but also to a significant extent in both varieties of nullsec anomaly as well. This is compounded by the fact that there's no effective way to cherry-pick the "good" ice in nullsec - the only way to respawn an anomaly is to completely clear it of all ice and then wait 4 hours, so overproduction of non-stront ice products is an unavoidable by-product of maximising stront production. More important than how much this will mess up the economy for ice products (massive spike in Stront prices, sharp drop in value for every other ice product), the numbers for how many fuel blocks New Eden as a whole can produce are going to fall way, way down. Looking only at local production (IE ignoring the fact that hisec and nullsec can currently trade their overproduction with one another to make even more fuel, which won't be the case with a stront bottleneck), hisec, lowsec and nullsec anomalies in 0.0 to -0.5 truesec systems will all be down to producing less than 10% of the fuel blocks they're currently able to produce, while even the -0.5 and lower truesec null anomalies will be down to 20% of their present day limit. I'm sure that nullsec ice is under-utilized compared to hisec, but even if that changed to the extent that every anomaly was cleared 5 times per day (more-or-less peak production given the 4 hour respawn time for each anomaly) there's no way it could make up for that 80-90% drop off in potential production. Good stuff. I had been comparing market volume of fuel blocks Vs. strontium and, even if you assume only half of the fuel moved on the market is actually consumed, the numbers looked absurd. The stated intent was: Quote:Since Citadels donGÇÖt use Strontium Clathrates for their reinforcement mode, we will add this particular material into the composition of the four existing fuel blocks to maintain its demand. But from what I can tell, total stront consumption (not just what is consumed by reinforcement, but all of it), at present, doesn't even BEGIN to approach a ratio of 5:1 with fuel block consumption. This does not seem to "maintain demand" so much as "create a brand new, very tight supply bottleneck". It would be nice to know the true universal consumption rate of fuel blocks and stront. I would ASSUME they had at least looked at those values before coming up with this, but from what I can tell they just pulled a number out of a hat and said, "EH, 400 should do it. No? you guys don't like that? So... 200?"
lets not forget the fact that "starbases" wont be limited anymore to the amount of moons in a system... we could get maybe twice the amount of structures we curently got... everywhere.. im having nightmares right now about all the fights ower strontium cause there wont be close to enough stront ANYWHERE! not even in NULL! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:34:10 -
[195] - Quote
RainReaper wrote: you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit
And you can get strontium clathrates from reprocessing racial ice, so by your logic, nothing needs to change! I'm glad we agree.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:36:40 -
[196] - Quote
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Stront use in citidels has to be higher than current use because currently it is a garbage byproduct ice, rather than the King Of Ices like it was supposed to be. I'm sorry, but you seem to have missed the slightly important point that the proposed stront use vastly out-strips stront production across all of New Eden. It's pretty pointless to compare current stront production to post-citadel stront production. Right now, strontium is a waste product that has almost no use and is too large to be profitable to move to market. Correspondingly, it is a low-value target for ice miners. After the change, production will increase, not only as existing ice miners increasingly target Krystallos (and dump their stores of strontium,) but by the attraction of new ice miners to a supply that is only partially exploited now.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:39:14 -
[197] - Quote
Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote: you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit
And you can get strontium clathrates from reprocessing racial ice, so by your logic, nothing needs to change! I'm glad we agree. ... listen buddy not even NULL SEC is gonna be able to mine enough stront to sustain itself. megacyte and zyrdine consumtion dosent change. but we got a 10% stront bottleneck like Jinrai Tremaine said in a fev posts back. null got a 20% stront bottle neck. fuel production goes to **** with this EVERYWHERE. but sure well see what happens. just dont go and complain that you guys cant maintain your structures services cause you cant make enough fuel there in goonspace. this affect us ALL |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:45:02 -
[198] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote: you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit
And you can get strontium clathrates from reprocessing racial ice, so by your logic, nothing needs to change! I'm glad we agree. ... listen buddy not even NULL SEC is gonna be able to mine enough stront to sustain itself. megacyte and zyrdine consumtion dosent change. but we got a 10% stront bottleneck like Jinrai Tremaine said in a fev posts back. null got a 20% stront bottle neck. fuel production goes to **** with this EVERYWHERE. but sure well see what happens. just dont go and complain that you guys cant maintain your structures services cause you cant make enough fuel there in goonspace. this affect us ALL There's always a bottleneck to production. These bottlenecks change occasionally. Adapt.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:47:36 -
[199] - Quote
Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote: you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit
And you can get strontium clathrates from reprocessing racial ice, so by your logic, nothing needs to change! I'm glad we agree. ... listen buddy not even NULL SEC is gonna be able to mine enough stront to sustain itself. megacyte and zyrdine consumtion dosent change. but we got a 10% stront bottleneck like Jinrai Tremaine said in a fev posts back. null got a 20% stront bottle neck. fuel production goes to **** with this EVERYWHERE. but sure well see what happens. just dont go and complain that you guys cant maintain your structures services cause you cant make enough fuel there in goonspace. this affect us ALL There's always a bottleneck to production. These bottlenecks change occasionally. Adapt.
bottlenecks can indeed change. however bottlenecks dosent tend to go from decent and sustainable to DEATHCHOKE in an instant |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1908
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:53:50 -
[200] - Quote
Querns wrote:Jinrai Tremaine wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Stront use in citidels has to be higher than current use because currently it is a garbage byproduct ice, rather than the King Of Ices like it was supposed to be. I'm sorry, but you seem to have missed the slightly important point that the proposed stront use vastly out-strips stront production across all of New Eden. It's pretty pointless to compare current stront production to post-citadel stront production. Right now, strontium is a waste product that has almost no use and is too large to be profitable to move to market. Correspondingly, it is a low-value target for ice miners. After the change, production will increase, not only as existing ice miners increasingly target Krystallos (and dump their stores of strontium,) but by the attraction of new ice miners to a supply that is only partially exploited now.
The production value is what is produced in the belts, not what is actually harvested, so this is a non-point.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2372
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:53:53 -
[201] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote:Querns wrote:RainReaper wrote: you can get the megacyte from the loot by reprocessing the stuff. again not 100% enough. but its possible to get a bit
And you can get strontium clathrates from reprocessing racial ice, so by your logic, nothing needs to change! I'm glad we agree. ... listen buddy not even NULL SEC is gonna be able to mine enough stront to sustain itself. megacyte and zyrdine consumtion dosent change. but we got a 10% stront bottleneck like Jinrai Tremaine said in a fev posts back. null got a 20% stront bottle neck. fuel production goes to **** with this EVERYWHERE. but sure well see what happens. just dont go and complain that you guys cant maintain your structures services cause you cant make enough fuel there in goonspace. this affect us ALL There's always a bottleneck to production. These bottlenecks change occasionally. Adapt. bottlenecks can indeed change. however bottlenecks dosent tend to go from decent and sustainable to DEATHCHOKE in an instant People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:02:02 -
[202] - Quote
People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.[/quote]
I havent heard of this. and its not something that even can be compared in the same way. The amount of LO3 we have gained from ice have been the same as far as i know ever since it was added to the game. Hell its INCREASED with the refining changed back in the crius update. This however is more than a bottle neck cause strontium have always been kind of a waste product cause you get so little. And when SUDDENLY we need 200 for each and every manufacturing of 40 blocks things get insane! Sure there is A LOT of stront curently. But after a while all that saved up stront is gonna disapear into the fuel blocks. and then when there is none left fuel production will halt as well. Then we are F**KED as industry goes to hell! |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1908
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:31:02 -
[203] - Quote
Querns wrote: People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.
Before: Fully mining out a high sec belt provides fuel for a single large tower for 436 hours. After: Fully mining out a high sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for <10 hours.
Before: Fully mining out a deep null belt provides enough fuel to run a single large tower for 3670 hours. After: Fully mining out a deep null sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for 699 hours.
Not exactly the same thing as liquid O, which is basically the bottleneck that gives the "before" values.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC Straw Hat Legion
27
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Posted - 2016.02.13 19:33:15 -
[204] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Querns wrote: People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.
Before: Fully mining out a high sec belt provides fuel for a single large tower for 436 hours. After: Fully mining out a high sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for <10 hours. Before: Fully mining out a deep null belt provides enough fuel to run a single large tower for 3670 hours. After: Fully mining out a deep null sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for 699 hours. Not exactly the same thing as liquid O, which is basically the bottleneck that gives the "before" values.
at least some people here gets it! |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:37:52 -
[205] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Querns wrote: People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.
Before: Fully mining out a high sec belt provides fuel for a single large tower for 436 hours. After: Fully mining out a high sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for <10 hours. Before: Fully mining out a deep null belt provides enough fuel to run a single large tower for 3670 hours. After: Fully mining out a deep null sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for 699 hours. Not exactly the same thing as liquid O, which is basically the bottleneck that gives the "before" values. The overwhelming majority of deep null belts are not cycled. There is plenty of room here. |
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
37
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:45:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP: If you are going to seed Light Fighters and Support Fighters skill books in the February release in preparation for the Citadels spring expansion, would it also not make sense to have also seeded the BPOs for the following:
- Structure Advertisement Nexus
- Structure Telescope Lens
- Structure Acceleration Coils
Honestly I think this has slipped through the cracks, because in the DevBlog (Building your Citadel....) a December release was pondered as being considered. Now we're in February. |
unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
177
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:07:23 -
[207] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Querns wrote: People were saying the same thing about Liquid Ozone last time, too. Yet, here we are, with LO3 barely affected.
Before: Fully mining out a high sec belt provides fuel for a single large tower for 436 hours. After: Fully mining out a high sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for <10 hours. Before: Fully mining out a deep null belt provides enough fuel to run a single large tower for 3670 hours. After: Fully mining out a deep null sec belt would provide enough stront to fuel a single large tower for 699 hours. Not exactly the same thing as liquid O, which is basically the bottleneck that gives the "before" values.
so, demand will increase while supply stay mean that more isk for Null alliance to spent on
won't be surprised to see a lot of organized ice mining fleet if stront price smash through roof |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
553
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 00:18:22 -
[208] - Quote
Well at this rate stront is the oil that ice should have been years ago. Ready for the hilarity to ensue. |
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia
41
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Posted - 2016.02.14 00:24:32 -
[209] - Quote
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:the very TL;DR is that 200 Stront/40 blocks isn't sustainable with current ice makeup.
Somebody give this pilot a medal for saying what all of us (except CCP) was thinking.
The point of ice belts, in their current iteration, was to limit the amount of POS fuel which could be produced in high security space. If you, CCP, want to further curb how much fuel we can make, then this will certainly do the job with flair. In a world where you want strontium to not be worthless but to also not have it destroy the fuel market, you should strongly consider absolutely no more than 2 or 3 strontium per batch of fuel blocks unless you greatly increase how much strontium is in all forms of ice across the board.
Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.
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Sohala Thiesant
Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia
0
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Posted - 2016.02.14 01:36:15 -
[210] - Quote
When I first saw the number 400 (for strontium ) in the post I took it for a typo, I ran some rough math on it quickly, deciding again it had to be a typo, but then I realized it was the actual proposed numbers.
After looking over Jinrai Tremaine's spreadsheet, I am just floored that such a number made it through.
I propose instead, an addition of 5 strontium per crafting of 40 fuel. Even with perfect nullsec refining, all faction ice that is being refined for fuel will be short strontium compared to the current ozone bottleneck, this should result in a demand for strontium in highsec and nullsec while also allowing those that wish to remain self-sufficient on faction ice to do so.
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