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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
502
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Posted - 2016.02.11 03:04:56 -
[1] - Quote
"Lol killboard" is the common opinion in the EVE playerbase, which is strange as in all other PvP games players live and die by stats. The reason is kill inflation. Anyone who is present on a kill report - even with an Ibis on a titan kill - gets full value on killboard. This caused the bizarre fact that there are 20x more kills than losses on zkillboard, making everyone 90%+.
To battle this, I analyzed large downloaded killboard databases and created de-inflated results by distributing kills. If 100 guys got on a kill they together get the kill value, not all of them. The distribution is done by damage parts. If you did 10% damage, you get 10% kill and not all of it. While it's unfair for tackle and logi pilots, as there are no tackle and logi alliances, such distribution reveals the true performance of alliances.
I did this analysis for 2014 and now for 2015. Both results are visible in this table and clicking leads you to detailed reports of these alliances. There are lots of surprises on this toplist, famous alliances got low kills and bad ISK ratio while barely unknown ones grew to top 10 with stupidly green results.
Go, have a look! Don't be fooled by propaganda, use numerical results instead!
Some surprising ones: NC. is barely green SMA has 31% ratio (OK, you are probably not surprised) Most top 10 alliances are NOT null sov holders RAZOR lost 2/3 of its PvP since 2014 And many more. Click!
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1215
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Posted - 2016.02.11 03:09:24 -
[2] - Quote
No i don't want to read your blog.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1050
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Posted - 2016.02.11 03:41:38 -
[3] - Quote
grrrrr.... goooooooooooooooooooon?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2191
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Posted - 2016.02.11 06:50:14 -
[4] - Quote
Nice analysis Gevlon. Always good to see who the true elite PvPers are in this game.
Inb4 random tears from people with red killboards about why this is not important and flawed any why they are special and better anyway.
/popcorn
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7177
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Posted - 2016.02.11 11:49:07 -
[5] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Lol killboard" is the common opinion in the EVE playerbase, which is strange as in all other PvP games players live and die by stats. The reason is kill inflation. With or without inflation it doesn't matter, the opinion is still "lol killboard" because killboard don't have context. I'm sure an alt in a rookie ship flying in and landing a bunch of hits on a titan will have a significantly better killboard than someone who fights even fights in a cruiser, but it doesn't say a thing about their level of skill.
Gevlon Goblin wrote:There are lots of surprises on this toplist, famous alliances got low kills and bad ISK ratio while barely unknown ones grew to top 10 with stupidly green results. The only "surprises" are the conclusions you come to after looking at the data. To anyone that's been around longer than 5 minutes, it's not surprising that groups fielding expensive ships to fight strategic objectives have lower killboard ratios than groups fielding cheap ships and going after soft targets. Even my gank alts have shockingly high isk ratios, because it turn's out volleying frigates, shuttles and pods off of a gate in a 1m thrasher is shockingly easy, but I'd hardly consider myself a good PvPer.
Basically you've looked through some stats and said "what ones can I spin to make it appear like I haven't wasted the last couple of years of my life fighting a battle I can never win", then ignored everything that doesn't fit. Pretending that it's not propaganda because it's based on numbers is laughable.
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nice analysis Gevlon. Always good to see who the true elite PvPers are in this game.
Inb4 random tears from people with red killboards about why this is not important and flawed any why they are special and better anyway. Coming from one of the "elite" I assume? lol. Effectively you agree with his analysis because it favours your playstyle.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26945
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Posted - 2016.02.11 12:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
What inflation?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
130
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Posted - 2016.02.11 12:49:32 -
[7] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Even my gank alts... Hahahaha.
If you are going to lie at least make it credible.
Dont try to be one of the cool kids. You fail miserably. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1065
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Posted - 2016.02.11 12:53:02 -
[8] - Quote
I wonder how you skewed the data to make it look like the cfc is failing... wait I just remembered I don't care.
Not today spaghetti.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7177
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Posted - 2016.02.11 13:16:03 -
[9] - Quote
Top Guac wrote:Hahahaha.
If you are going to lie at least make it credible.
Dont try to be one of the cool kids. You fail miserably. Even my most obvious alt has a history that involves ganking, so not really sure why it lacks credibility. Ganking isn't an exclusive club, every player can do it and smash well above 90% efficiency. You realise that right? Or did you seriously think that it was something only top tier players can pull off?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Cristl
328
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Posted - 2016.02.11 15:35:59 -
[10] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Emporium alliances are marked with red background ...is a bloody lie, they barely sold anything, and tried to shoot me!
On a more serious note, no attempt to produce a killboard that wasn't flawed in some way is almost certainly impossible, like the maths behind voting or auctions - you can't perfectly balance everything simultaneously. Current killboards could, I feel, make a better effort, but whatever.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
301
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Posted - 2016.02.11 15:47:47 -
[11] - Quote
KB's are crap, depending on your point of view.
Sure they give you stats, but they also encourage players to play differently to how they used to.
Like killing soft targets just for kill-mails. |
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
112
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Posted - 2016.02.11 19:41:23 -
[12] - Quote
Padding the Killboard (sung to the tune of Down In The Boondocks)
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People want me to, 'cause that's the kinda thing they worship to.
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People say it's cool, cause numbers make you drool you know it's true.
Every day I have to buy a Thrasher and some mods. I'm in a little corp. that ganks a lot so they feel like digital gods. But, one day I'm gonna get real smart. I'm gonna make some sense. I won't fall for the cheap gameplay that shows I must be dense.
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People want me to, 'cause that's the kinda thing they worship to.
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People say it's cool, cause numbers make you drool you know it's true.
I pay a lot of money to sub this game, though I know I can always pay with PLEX. But it's so hard to hit my pride paying my way by ganking wrecks. Still, the egos I play with just won't let it slide, they won't let my pride go free. So, it looks like I'll have to spend my days wallowing in idiocy
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People want me to, 'cause that's the kinda thing they worship to.
Padding the killboard. Padding the killboard. People say it's cool, cause numbers make you drool you know it's true.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9837
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Posted - 2016.02.11 19:55:16 -
[13] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Lol killboard" is the common opinion in the EVE playerbase, which is strange as in all other PvP games players live and die by stats.
I beg to differ.
"LOL killboard" is a pretty common theme in most of the popular online PVP game. Maybe you should actually check their forums instead of pulling 'facts' out of your ass.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.02.11 19:57:13 -
[14] - Quote
I'd prefer a KB that showed the raw and adjusted stats based upon various massages. Any one of them shows a certain piece of the puzzle, but each also have their weaknesses.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.02.11 20:00:53 -
[15] - Quote
Avvy wrote:KB's are crap, depending on your point of view.
In hindsight, I'd say the game would have been better off without KMs and all the meta that surrounds them.
Higher level stats would be fine, but such specificity leads to such meta and free intel that its just, less interesting. I'd prefer more mystery in that regard.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
615
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:10:53 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:famous alliances got low kills and bad ISK ratio while barely unknown ones grew to top 10 with stupidly green results. directly leads to
Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Lol killboard"
I won't comment on your methods. Statistics can be spun any way you like. But if we decide to roll with your particular spin, there can only be one conclusion: KB Stats don't matter. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
621
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:49:12 -
[17] - Quote
I've never read your previous year's analyses of this, so forgive me if this has been answered before (I assume it has).
How do you account for groups with players who don't PvP? A 3,000 member group with great killboard stats coming from 100 active PvP pilots is a lot less impressive than a 100 member corp with equal stats to group 'A' with substantially less pilots.
(I'm not intending this as a grrr anyone, just honestly curious how the numbers work out from people who have spent time looking through the data) |
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments Second Empire.
1712
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:52:08 -
[18] - Quote
Your analysis is heavily flawed and you're still a bad poster.
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
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412nv Yaken
The Conference Elite CODE.
355
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Posted - 2016.02.12 00:07:56 -
[19] - Quote
bronze isnt bad. Considering you know code sucks and all
A True Champion of High Security Space
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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
206
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Posted - 2016.02.12 10:54:14 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Lol killboard" is the common opinion in the EVE playerbase, which is strange as in all other PvP games players live and die by stats. I beg to differ. "LOL killboard" is a pretty common theme in most of the popular online PVP game. Maybe you should actually check their forums instead of pulling 'facts' out of your ass. Mr Epeen
Yet kill boards tell you so much in many games. For example I can tell if a swtor Sin knows his class role or is just running around trying to be a sith warrior by his kill score. He should have a low number of kills but a high amount of kill blows and solo kills. yet if hes got 50 kills 3 kbs and about 6 deaths then he's playing his class wrong tactically. "lol killboard" is for bads who don't want to improve their game play. To get better at the game you should actively SEEK feedback. killboards are objective feedback so should be used. Anyone who isn't trying to improve "lol I play for fun nolife" isn't someone I care to waste time on in any game.
Will gank for food
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1225
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Posted - 2016.02.12 11:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tarojan wrote:... Anyone who isn't trying to improve "lol I play for fun nolife" isn't someone I care to waste time on in any game.
I'm stuck between worlds, muh stats people are boring and do stupid things to avoid losses, like killing their own to deny killmails? Then there's the lol-killmails failures who for some reason won't even try to do something well. I log on to have fun, the fun spikes in my time don't match kb stats at all. High isk efficiency is when i've been in a blob, lowest efficiency is solo. The blob work changes the map and leads to money and being in the big pack, solo work gives me the heart-pounding shakes from hunting. While sitting at a desk! I need both fun and competence, stuck between worlds i tells ya.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
615
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Posted - 2016.02.12 11:24:07 -
[22] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Yours is bad" doesn't mean "they don't matter". It's just that you are bad. Ok, we are bad at killboards. Yet we are "famous", while some of the statistically good PvPers are tiny and unknown. I am just drawing conclusions from the data you are providing and the statements you made in the OP: KB Stats don't matter. Feel free to tell me, how your statistic tells us they do. So far you only claim that without any information to support that claim. You are the statistics nerd, I trust you can whip something up.
Gevlon Goblin wrote:By the way GSF isn't even that bad. If we compare to SMA or NC. Gee, thanks! We are better PvPers than SMA - what a relief! |
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
208
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Posted - 2016.02.12 11:43:35 -
[23] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:"Yours is bad" doesn't mean "they don't matter". It's just that you are bad. Ok, we are bad at killboards. Yet we are "famous", while some of the statistically good PvPers are tiny and unknown. I am just drawing conclusions from the data you are providing and the statements you made in the OP: KB Stats don't matter. Feel free to tell me, how your statistic tells us they do. So far you only claim that without any information to support that claim. You are the statistics nerd, I trust you can whip something up. Gevlon Goblin wrote:By the way GSF isn't even that bad. If we compare to SMA or NC. Gee, thanks! We are better PvPers than SMA - what a relief!
Given goons are being praised with his stats as "good" I don't know what your complaining about? unless you really do want to continue with the line "we are bad at eve" just so you can troll the folks you wipe out...cos if your bad what are they?
Turns out goons aren't bad at eve and your alot better then NC your "leet" arch nemesis. Also monkeys are bad... well we knew that too right?
Will gank for food
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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
208
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Posted - 2016.02.12 11:46:35 -
[24] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Tarojan wrote:... Anyone who isn't trying to improve "lol I play for fun nolife" isn't someone I care to waste time on in any game. I'm stuck between worlds, muh stats people are boring and do stupid things to avoid losses, like killing their own to deny killmails? Then there's the lol-killmails failures who for some reason won't even try to do something well. I log on to have fun, the fun spikes in my time don't match kb stats at all. High isk efficiency is when i've been in a blob, lowest efficiency is solo. The blob work changes the map and leads to money and being in the big pack, solo work gives me the heart-pounding shakes from hunting. While sitting at a desk! I need both fun and competence, stuck between worlds i tells ya.
Fun and competence yup thats me too. Quite happy to die 14 times holding a gate or choke point if it means we win. Not happy to watch scrubs throw away a match by feeding the other team then get "lol just a game why so srs". If you want to be bad go ahead if you find it fun good for you. Just don't be bad around me. Note: theres a difference between new and bad.
Will gank for food
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
615
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Posted - 2016.02.12 12:02:58 -
[25] - Quote
Tarojan wrote:Given goons are being praised with his stats as "good" I don't know what your complaining about?
Well, according to the statistic, we are just slightly in the "good" territory. But that's not at all what I am complaining about. I am merely asking why he thinks killboard stats matter. According to his statistic, I can see no correlation of any sort that would support anything but "lol, killboards".
As for NC. - when we call them "elite" it's never been because they are actually any good, but because they tend to care about being good. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2206
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Posted - 2016.02.12 16:40:58 -
[26] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nice analysis Gevlon. Always good to see who the true elite PvPers are in this game.
Inb4 random tears from people with red killboards about why this is not important and flawed any why they are special and better anyway. Coming from one of the "elite" I assume? lol. Effectively you agree with his analysis because it favours your playstyle. I can see why you don't like the analysis. But I highly doubt there is any analysis which will result in you being at the top, so it was kinda obvious that you would shed tears about it.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2016.02.12 16:55:21 -
[27] - Quote
Here's a straight up simple FACT:
Ginnie has zero kills and zero losses. I'm not even on killboard!
It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2932
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Posted - 2016.02.12 17:05:19 -
[28] - Quote
If I could just clone a less tinfoil huffing version of you... |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
616
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Posted - 2016.02.12 18:09:38 -
[29] - Quote
Rowells wrote:If I could just clone a less tinfoil huffing version of you...
There wouldn't be much left, don't you think? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7198
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Posted - 2016.02.12 19:05:53 -
[30] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nice analysis Gevlon. Always good to see who the true elite PvPers are in this game.
Inb4 random tears from people with red killboards about why this is not important and flawed any why they are special and better anyway. Coming from one of the "elite" I assume? lol. Effectively you agree with his analysis because it favours your playstyle. I can see why you don't like the analysis. But I highly doubt there is any analysis which will result in you being at the top, so it was kinda obvious that you would shed tears about it. I doubt it too, and entirely don't care. The only measure I need is how much the game entertains me. Even for people who care about being "the best", any stats pulled from any type of killboard mean nowt because there's no way they can turn context into statistics. You like the stats because it gives you an opportunity to pat yourself on the back, but what does it change? Nothing. You could be number 1 on the stats and you'd still just be yet another player, respected by some and ridiculed by others. As Neuntausend, "lol killboard" is the only way to interpret killboard stats.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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