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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
60
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well, Crucible has been out for a bit now, and I imagine all the people anxious to try the hybrid changes have tried them.
I am neutral on the subject, but what is the overall opinion? Did CCP get it right, or go too far, or not far enough?
Guessing at the lack of threads about it, I assume CCP got it right and few are complaining of the changes being under or over powered.
Or is there some feedback thread I can't find that people are screaming in? |
Kyoko Sakoda
Veto. Veto Corp
20
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Railguns still don't have a "special sauce" that makes them particularly interesting to use. They're bland. Caldari ranged boats (except the Naga) are all poor on the field, particularly the Eagle and Ferox.
Blasters still have troubles with getting into range and dealing enough damage, mostly due to the armor rig and agility problems, I think. Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Even EMP is better in a lot of cases.
It's an improvement, but it still isn't there. |
Kahz Niverrah
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming Moar Tears
83
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting. I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main. |
Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
31
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
rails need a *hint* more damage.
blasters could use slightly more range,
The main problem is in the ships right now.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Veto. Veto Corp
20
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kahz Niverrah wrote:Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting.
Confirming your confirmation. I love my Zealot. |
Alara IonStorm
623
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kahz Niverrah wrote:Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting. They are not great but some of them manage.
The Omen is Ok for it as well as the Nano Harbinger. Slicers Kite very well as do Shield Curses and to some degree the Sader.
But if I were to guess Sakoda meant Scorch as a statement of it's fleet uses and then mentioned Barrage specifically in it's connection to kiting.
TBH Scorch is Amarr. Without Scorch there ships would drop off the map like nothing else. Relegated to slower, weaker, cap heavier versions of Gallente ships with Beams living in the shadow of Artillery. It is literally there 1 trick pony =/ |
Sader Rykane
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
150
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Kahz Niverrah wrote:Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting. Confirming your confirmation. I love my Zealot.
[Legion, PvP Legion] Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Thermic Membrane Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
My attempt at being minmatar. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Veto. Veto Corp
20
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah I realize that Amarr ships are slower than shield-tanked kiters. But some manage, like Alara said. The added flexibility in the T2 ammo is what I was getting at. None of the T2 hybrid ammo is a one trick pony like Barrage or Scorch. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.12.15 18:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Well, Crucible has been out for a bit now, and I imagine all the people anxious to try the hybrid changes have tried them.
I am neutral on the subject, but what is the overall opinion? Did CCP get it right, or go too far, or not far enough?
Guessing at the lack of threads about it, I assume CCP got it right and few are complaining of the changes being under or over powered.
Or is there some feedback thread I can't find that people are screaming in?
After the patch I've found a lot more interesting fits for my gallente ships. Reduced PG needs on Hybrids allow way better customisation and versatility.
As for the weapons themselves, rails were not bad even before the patch and now they are just better. Blasers on the other hand depend on ship you choose. I didn't have much time to test all of it, but Blaster Mega that I flew for like 3 hrs was very powerful. Each time you get on the Blaster range your target pops up very and very fast.
After all of that I even considered to use Hybrids on a Myrm. Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
Ager Agemo
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
19
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Posted - 2011.12.15 19:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.
the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.
while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.
Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.
if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3194
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Posted - 2011.12.15 19:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
There is still little reason in using blasters over other weaponry. The changes to them did not address the problems they have.
It was rather like sticking a band aid over a festering wound.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Baden Luskan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.12.15 19:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.
the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.
while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.
Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.
if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage.
Ive found that railguns do comperable dps to artilery, but its way the damage is applied leaves railguns severly lacking for PvP. The Artilery, as everyone knows, has a HUGE volley damage, but a very slow rate of fire to compensate for DPS. Railguns get their dps from a very high rate of fire and a low amount of volley damage. This is fine, but the rate of fire is not high enough to make railgun volley damage viable in PvP due to logistic ships being able to lock a traget and repair it within 5 seconds.
Simple fix though...increase the rate of fire ofr rail guns and lower their volley damage ot keep their DPS still in line with other turret platforms. Possibally even a 3 volley burst, with 1 second inbetween every shot followed by a 3 or 4 second wait until your next 3 volley burst. That might make railguns more viable in PvP. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
153
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Posted - 2011.12.15 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
remove the tracking pen from t2 blaster ammo and add a bit more dps. they dont do enough damage upclose to over come the getting into range issue.
fitting is much easier now though CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
71
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Posted - 2011.12.15 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pro's: Fitting is easier Suicide ganking is easier (coupled with Destroyer buff... omg.) Reload Time is as should be.
Cons: Main drawback of Hybrid failure not addressed: Blaster boats (in the current form of REAL close range) are not the fastest ships in the game.
To Correct (several options): Make Gallente faster than Minmatar, but give Minmatar the agility edge.
Rework Autocannons to be what blasters are and blasters what autocannons are.
Rework Autocannons to have very far range with almost no falloff with a buff to gallente optimal and significant falloff. As an example (all Level 5's): Heavy Neutrons with optimal of 6km, falloff of approx 8km, 425 Autocannons with optimal of 11km and 0.5km falloff. This way, the minmatar would have to maintain a specific range, within overclocked web/scram range if they veer too close, but both can hit each other.
Needs to be done regardless: Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility. Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.
We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Michus Danether
Immortalis Silens Intrepid Crossing
10
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Posted - 2011.12.15 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think we need to give it far more time for people to determine the efficacy of the new hybrids. We need to let people experiment with fittings, tactics, fleet and gang load-outs and otherwise give hybrids a chance.
Personally I have fit some very impressive and powerful rail fits and some fail fits as well, it seems that while small and large hybrid weapons have found their sweet spot, the medium hybrids didn't get as much love.
We need to give it a few months to see what develops. I think we can all agree however that hybrids are better now than they were before, we just need to determine if they are either not better enough or too much better. |
Hershman
G-Weezy
108
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 20:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree, give it a little more time to sink in. Personally haven't been much of a Hybrid user. Mostly missiles and autocannons. But I have noticed a big difference in the Blasters. If you're in an active tank Battleship and those suckas get too close, make no mistake, your **** will melt. |
Hershman
G-Weezy
108
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 20:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
. |
Alara IonStorm
624
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote: Needs to be done regardless: Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility. Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.
So make armor ships even easier to catch on gates by changing speed to agility and screwing shield ships on speed instead of armor. Neither sounds, whats the word...
Fun.
I say just remove Rig Penalties all together.
|
Opertone
Signal 7 The Jagged Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.
the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.
while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.
Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.
if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage.
Get back to fixing it, CCP. |
Opertone
Signal 7 The Jagged Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Burseg Sardaukar wrote: Needs to be done regardless: Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility. Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.
So make armor ships even easier to catch on gates by changing speed to agility and screwing shield ships on speed instead of armor. Neither sounds, whats the word... Fun. I say just remove Rig Penalties all together.
allow gallente ships to have high MWD velocity, hi straight line charge, disallow gallente maneuvering and orbiting - basically gallente are plated knights with spears and swords. Hard on charge, slow to turn around.
Minmatar are fast an low tank.
Ammar are cap deficient, but otherwise powerful in all aspects. Somewhat slow.
Caldari are falling out. Supposedly snipers, lightest armored ships, not designed for close combat. Caldari role is negligible, their DPS is absurd low. And weak long range fleet will always be charged by Gallente knights. |
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Averyia
3
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Posted - 2011.12.15 21:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maybe if Caldari ships got an agility boost (but maintain slow speed) and Gallente ships get a slight speed and agility boost then it would help.
Maybe extend the range of webs? Or give blasters more range.
Increase the RoF of rails a bit. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Burseg Sardaukar wrote: Needs to be done regardless: Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility. Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.
So make armor ships even easier to catch on gates by changing speed to agility and screwing shield ships on speed instead of armor. Neither sounds, whats the word... Fun. I say just remove Rig Penalties all together.
I can definitely got on board with removing the penalties, but they were always intended to have a give-and-take relationships (except for the Engineering ones, for whatever reason...)
The idea about armor was mostly towards plates adding mass which screws speed AND agility, and should really only do 1, and when it comes to the blasters problem, its largely a factor of speed and closing range with a target. By only negatively affecting agility, Gallente armor boats can be like a charging bull you don't want to be in the way of.
With the Astro rigs, the choice shouldn't be "Armor or Shield+Speed+Agility" it should be "Armor, Shield, or Speed+Agility." We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 20:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
From what I have seen its still better to fit projectiles to a Hybrid boat |
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:remove the tracking pen from t2 blaster ammo and add a bit more dps. they dont do enough damage upclose to over come the getting into range issue.
fitting is much easier now though
I thought I posted this like a month before crucible release, and Ive been saying it for years. Time to say it again. I also gave you a thumbs up for saying it.
IVe not been able to log in for weeks, but from what it sounds like, Devs gave buffs to where people wanted them, but they didnt actually fix the problems. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
25
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Posted - 2011.12.17 00:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
The improvements are a step in the right direction but it's still not enough. Blaster DPS could be increased by another 15% or so. I'm a pirate in a pirate's body. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
310
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 00:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
fitting and cap requirements are perfect now.
there are still soem range issues on blasters compared to their counterparts. blasters could use a 15% falloff bonus
really the main issue now is with gallente ship speed and acceleration.
The biggest problem comes from MWD and their mass addition. |
Dorian Tormak
P0ON
4
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Posted - 2011.12.17 00:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
You can forget about getting rid of rig penalizations as a way to buff Gallente because every race besides Caldari use armor rigs. So if rig penalizations are gone, Minmatar benefit just as much as Gallente, thereby making the change not at all a Gallente buff but a seperate module fix and Gallente will get Scorched and Barraged just as often as they do now, which is not very often anyway TBH. I'M JUST LOOKING FOR AN A55 TO MOUNT!
...."and I've been fighting back ever since...." |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
416
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Posted - 2011.12.17 00:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Kahz Niverrah wrote:Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting. Confirming your confirmation. I love my Zealot.
Confirming the confirmation and your confirmation of the confirmation you confirmed. Rated ARG for Pirates. **** you. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
327
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
So we have basically added a BS fleet comp based on the Rokh due to the changes. It won't replace our abbadons but it will give us an option in the department as the Rokhs are really sweet.
We do fleet combat, so in a fleet orientation, the alpha is fine at the numbers we'll be fielding with the focus fire, and the high range of optimals means that we'll be able to always be at optimal range from 10km to 140km, and shortly into falloff at that point we'll be warping ontop of you anyway. The 5 second reload is amazing, allowing for this constant range flow.
We use mallers to pick fights when all else fails, and we're currently looking at a Moa based version of it we think will perform in the same way, only doing the job better.
You see, long ago amar were trash(after they were good the first time) and CCP came in and made minor tweaks, changed 2 or 3 ships around, and suddenly they were pretty good. Time moves on and it turns out Projectiles sucked too. The little tweaks guy was obviously out for lunch and the drastic sweeping changes guy came in and 'fixed' them. They went from 'suck' to 'holy mother of god' over night. The rail gun guys wanted that dude to fix their chosen platform, instead they got the guy that fixed lasars, and rail guns, while not projectiles, are good. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
236
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 16:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
hybrids are garbage in pvp, and if you think otherwise, you dont pvp.
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