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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27050
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Posted - 2016.02.13 00:23:36 -
[61] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I have to seriously wonder if any of you complaining people even bothered looking at the camera options. You can disable and change things like FOV and zoom speed to make it GǪnot even half as good as the old camera, since it is still far more automated, imprecise, clumsy, and lacking in features.
It still has nonsensical non-linear and uneven acceleration on its different axes. It requires tons of additional keypresses to do things that required one or none before. It completely lacks quick and intuitive resets. It completely lacks settings persistence and a number of manual controls.
Quote:Stop complaining for the sake of complaining. The only one doing that is you. Pretty much everyone else is complaining for a very good reason: because CCP is making an idiotic decision to remove critical functionality from one of the most important systems in the game. They also generally offer very specific and detailed criticisms towards the new camera and the main ways in which it fails to offer the functionality of the old one.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7511
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Posted - 2016.02.13 00:30:28 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:I have to seriously wonder if any of you complaining people even bothered looking at the camera options. You can disable and change things like FOV and zoom speed to make it GǪnot even half as good as the old camera, since it is still far more automated, imprecise, clumsy, and lacking in features. It still has nonsensical non-linear and uneven acceleration on its different axes. It requires tons of additional keypresses to do things that required one or none before. It completely lacks quick and intuitive resets. It completely lacks settings persistence and a number of manual controls. Quote:Stop complaining for the sake of complaining. The only one doing that is you. Pretty much everyone else is complaining for a very good reason: because CCP is making an idiotic decision to remove critical functionality from one of the most important systems in the game. They also generally offer very specific and detailed criticisms towards the new camera and the main ways in which it fails to offer the functionality of the old one.
I said ages ago, when it was first being tested, the new camera is not something we asked for, and when I tried it out, not something I could stomach, but if they really felt the need to go ahead and add new camera options, it shouldn't be at the expense of the functionality we have now. I mean, I don't see a problem with them adding new options, but even if it is legacy code, there's no reason why they can't rewrite it to do what it does now and be more up to date.
Tiger, no one is complaining. We're criticising. But at the end of the day, if we have a core system replaced with one that doesn't hold up to the usability and functionality of what we already had, people aren't going to complain. They're just going to log off and not come back. Some of them might keep an eye out to see if it gets fixed, like I will. Some of them will never return.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1950
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Posted - 2016.02.13 00:44:48 -
[63] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger?
Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me.
Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Eanok
POS Party Ember Sands
28
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:46:53 -
[64] - Quote
This is kind of sad news. Why cant my ship be the center of the screen like before? The new camera option is kind of nauseating. Kind of like how CCP hasn't made any changes recently to bring in new players, just push old ones away. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
77
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:58:44 -
[65] - Quote
Explore interface please.
Tactical camera + turn off overlay. After every jump or undock. The old camera was simple and functional. It (or something which works exactly like it) should still be available. The simplest answer I can see is by making the tactical camera just remember where it was before, and not turn on overlay every time you jump or undock.
A signature :o
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
510
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:00:03 -
[66] - Quote
EVE players hate change lol |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
383
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:15:59 -
[67] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:EVE players hate change lol
Its not about change. I welcome change. New ships, capital rework, module tiericide, grid changes all good things. Its about destroying functionality for the sake of fluff. This isnt change its destruction and poor design decisions.
If you actually read some if the problems and complaints ppl have been posting (particularly in the feedback thread) this would be apparrent. The new camera has serious functionality issues, glitches and unintended physiological effects.
Daemun of Khanid
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Pix Severus
Empty You
2995
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:16:27 -
[68] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:EVE players hate bad change lol
Fixed.
My lord.
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IronLemur
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP RAZOR Alliance
3
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:16:46 -
[69] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Bumblefck wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote: Now that I'm done throwing up, I'll simply ask all of you here why you aren't in the feedback threads for the new camera providing input as to potential changes instead of making yourselves look like whiney man-children in GD?
Some of us did, now kindly disembark That's great to hear. My derogatory response was aimed at the people who haven't.
..because that will really make a difference. Testers have been complaining about lack of tracking camera and many of these issues since SiSI but that didn't stop CCP from rolling it out on production and "gracing" us with a 1 month reprieve from this horrid camera.
I've posted my feelings on the feedback thread and every thread on this new camera I could find. Still not holding out much hope anything will be fixed since the only feedback we get (similar to this thread) is to file a bug report if a full-blown bug is found. CCP's wording in the unboxing isn't exactly encouraging either
Quote:If, for whatever reason you feel it necessary revert, please us the forums to let us know why so that weGÇÖre able to squash any remaining issues before we pull the final plug on the old cameraGÇÖs dwindling life support.
Makes it sound like "we're ready to go, but let us know if you find any bugs"
The fact that there are already multile threads and details in the unboxing of how to make the new camera behave like the old should be reasoning enough that the changes aren't great/wanted. Still, the only deal breaker for me is the tracking camera toggle. It's mind-boggling why this was removed. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
721
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:42:54 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger? Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me. Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do.
When I can reproduce it will. I left the system that it happend in, it might be related to flying in a inty. Clone jumped to HS, so maybe tomarrow i'll try to reproduce it.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
12
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Posted - 2016.02.13 06:40:09 -
[71] - Quote
Hello CCP,
If you folks would not mind I think a large majority of pilots would greatly appreciate your leaving the old camera system alone for the time being until the new can be fully sorted out complete with the option to keep the old system.
I have tried over and over to come to grips with it...and had to turn it off. For someone used to dancing the camera in conjunction with dscan (old version as well) to pin targets rapidly....the new camera simply does NOT get the job done. Some examples:
Old camera....easy to dscan while in warp. New camera....good luck with that. Old camera...jump in system....note target on dscan and pivot camera while narrowing down (and grumbling over the stupid scanner re-calibrating).....new camera...jump in and fight to remain oriented with dscan.
The new camera is just not very useful for the pro scout or hunter. It might be pretty....but like the new map (that I also find generally unpleasant and still use the old) it is not overly functional.
A cosmetic change that breaks gameplay flow is ill-advised.
Thanks
Bone
**edit**p.s. the failure of the tac overlay in the new camera system to remain constant is also a PITA. Also laggy in my opinion. |
Varathius
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
204
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Posted - 2016.02.13 07:33:02 -
[72] - Quote
CCP, there is no reason for leaving out the option to keep the old system. If you implement something new, please do it based on customer feedback.
Also, a real life scenario needs to be made here. Aircraft manufacturers create cockpit layouts for the flight crews based on pilot feedback, and not because some engineers want a change for whatever reason that will increase inefficiency in the working environment (cockpit).
So why is this so hard to understand in EVE? Where are the numbers and statistics, polls etc, that show that the new camera angles etc is actually something that the community requested? |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1227
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Posted - 2016.02.13 07:47:51 -
[73] - Quote
RuleoftheBone wrote:The new camera is just not very useful for the pro scout or hunter. It might be pretty....but like the new map (that I also find generally unpleasant and still use the old) it is not overly functional.
What this guy said.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7518
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Posted - 2016.02.13 07:52:41 -
[74] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:EVE players hate change lol
EVE players love change. Good change that makes sense, adds features and content that don't detract from existing features and content that we have and use extensively, we're not complaining about that. Citadels are pretty awesome, still sceptical about skill packets, but this camera is terrible. It's a bad change that takes more away than it adds by virtue of taking away what many players found to be an exceptionally intuitive camera system, and replacing it with stuff that many of us don't want or will ever use.
When you assert something like "eve players hate change", you'd better be able to back it up. Ie, show me all the posts I ever made complaining about every change that EVE has experienced, or get out with your moronic attempt to get some attention.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4301
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Posted - 2016.02.13 09:07:26 -
[75] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:I have to seriously wonder if any of you complaining people even bothered looking at the camera options. You can disable and change things like FOV and zoom speed to make it nearly identical to the old camera in usability. Stop complaining for the sake of complaining. I have to seriously wonder if you've bothered to read any of the complaints everyone has given, have even undocked and tried to use the thing or even know how to do anything combat related in EvE, or have taken a moment to consider that you aren't the center of the universe and the vast majority of players disagree with you and believe the camera is very bad. 13 pages and counting of negativity on the official feedback thread complete with reasons, suggested fixes, screenshots, video's and scenario's. I have to wonder if you think you're the only one who's tried unticking a couple camera options. I have to wonder if you think the world exists outside your own little bubble. Have to wonder... Edit: Sorry 15 pages and counting. To be fair, 15 pages of complaints is not really an indication of 'the vast majority of players'. Truly controversial features get much more than that.
The devs clearly put a lot of effort on the new camera, I think they deserve some credit. For one thing, the current TQ version is already way better than the SiSi one.
There are lots of new functionalities, whether you like them or not depends on personal taste. For example, I love the exponential speed since it's faster to completely zoom in and out. And the tracking, though different, is much snappier than before.
Regarding tracking people warping away, I believe they're 'fixing' it. Though it still is possible to see where people warped to, you just have to manually move the view. You could also argue that this would be a good thing as chasing people would require more player skill (and I say this as a hunter).
The last proposal I read from the devs regarding dscan (press a key, click on celestial, automatic dscan in that direction) also sounds better to me than the current clicking celestial then clicking scan with tracking toggled on.
Anyways, it's fine to voice your concerns and this time I see the devs putting a lot of effort into getting it right.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2443
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Posted - 2016.02.13 09:29:07 -
[76] - Quote
i dont see an issue with it, maybe im missing something, camera set on orbit mode seems to just look the same but i can zoom further out?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4717
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Posted - 2016.02.13 09:44:15 -
[77] - Quote
Eanok wrote:This is kind of sad news. Why cant my ship be the center of the screen like before? The new camera option is kind of nauseating. Kind of like how CCP hasn't made any changes recently to bring in new players, just push old ones away.
You can return the ship to the center by disabling the "offset" options of the new camera in the graphics menu. That also helps with nausea.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Sonja Fury
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.02.13 11:10:45 -
[78] - Quote
I am glad I am not the only one who get motion sickness from the new camera. I hate it. |
Mag's
Rabble Inc. TransentienT
21282
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Posted - 2016.02.13 11:14:07 -
[79] - Quote
I love change.
When it adds new functionality, doesn't remove functionality and is a improvement for players.
Can this be said of this change?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Lady Morwenna
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.02.13 11:58:24 -
[80] - Quote
I cant stand the new camera, and just about everyone else in corp that undocked afterwards reverted back to the old camera. I don't know how many people i had to explain how to get the old camera settings back. I have been playing since 2004 and am open to changes, but this just made eve feel like a different game.
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
511
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Posted - 2016.02.13 12:10:54 -
[81] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Kuronaga wrote:EVE players hate change lol Its not about change. I welcome change. New ships, capital rework, module tiericide, grid changes all good things. Its about destroying functionality for the sake of fluff. This isnt change its destruction and poor design decisions. If you actually read some if the problems and complaints ppl have been posting (particularly in the feedback thread) this would be apparrent. The new camera has serious functionality issues, glitches and unintended physiological effects.
Reading is hard.
What do you expect of me, a third grade education? |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
47
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Posted - 2016.02.13 13:21:26 -
[82] - Quote
Officer Pressly wrote:Just a heads up to everyone that missed this. If you have reverted to the old camera (like me). CCP have stated that they will remove the option, and leave you flying with the new camera as the only camera option. Quote from dev blog: Quote:Since changes to fundamental parts of core gameplay systems can be delicate, weGÇÖve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now. I personally have serious issues with part of my everyday gameplay beeing just deleted from the game.
Are you serious. The new camera is rubbish.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
394
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Posted - 2016.02.13 15:38:57 -
[83] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Eanok wrote:This is kind of sad news. Why cant my ship be the center of the screen like before? The new camera option is kind of nauseating. Kind of like how CCP hasn't made any changes recently to bring in new players, just push old ones away. You can return the ship to the center by disabling the "offset" options of the new camera in the graphics menu. That also helps with nausea.
Unfortunately this only works for the speed offset. The ship will still be greatly offset when using tracking camera functions.
Daemun of Khanid
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Divine Entervention
Hunters Elite Krab Republic
815
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Posted - 2016.02.13 16:34:31 -
[84] - Quote
Get over it
If the entire world was as apprehensive to change as the lot of you are, we'd be in the dark ages. We'd be drawing on the walls of caves with charcoal. We wouldn't even have charcoal because you wouldn't have allowed yourselves to discover fire yet.
For a group of nerds who ecstatically embrace the product of change in the form of using the internet, computers, electricity, and playing a game based on scientific advancement so far as flying space ships in space in an entirely different universe, you're all incredibly neophobic.
But whatever, I guess you can't really expect much when you're dealing with the 9/10 Anomaly of a Neanderthal Haven. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
312
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Posted - 2016.02.13 17:46:47 -
[85] - Quote
Started the cancellation process. My sub is up in June so they have a few months to iron things out if they want to keep my business. I'm simply not going to pay for something that makes me nauseous and frustrated. That would be stupid. Wrapping up some production jobs and will likely fly around a little bit between now and March. After that, it's up to the Cceeps.
I've had a lot of fun. I'd like to stay. Them's the breaks.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
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Posted - 2016.02.13 18:05:08 -
[86] - Quote
Cna't check this myself as my internet connection is so bad presently.
But I noticed in this thread that it seems the camera is offset to the ship. Played games like that, I still consider it odd, but you do get used to it after awhile. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
396
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Posted - 2016.02.13 19:03:48 -
[87] - Quote
Not when the offset moves your ship entirely behind windows which considering how window/information heavy eve is becomes a real issue. Convenient that the videos ccp have made to try and make the new cameras look cool are all completely void of interface elements.
Daemun of Khanid
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10776
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Posted - 2016.02.13 19:10:50 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger? Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me. Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do.
...and what about the issues of motion sickness that some of us face? I hope CCP doesn't just arbitrarily remove the old camera system and thereby render the game unplayable for those that are affected by this.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Elite Harvester
Elite Harvesters
48
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:34:23 -
[89] - Quote
I personally love the new first-person camera. It combined with the manual piloting controls is great.
Miner bowling has never been more fun.
Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how you can help save Highsec.
Proud owner of 110,000 New Order Shares.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
806
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Posted - 2016.02.13 21:00:16 -
[90] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger? Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me. Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do. ...and what about the issues of motion sickness that some of us face? I hope CCP doesn't just arbitrarily remove the old camera system and thereby render the game unplayable for those that are affected by this.
Agreed. Personally, I rather like the potential the new camera system could have, but in it's current state, it's a mess of missing functions and the ones that it promises are either still nonexistent or half broken anyways. If the bugs can be ironed out and the list of classic functions that players routinely rely on now can be properly introduced into the new camera modes, then it could be a pretty nice upgrade. At this point, it's a crude rusty knife that needs some restoration, cleaning, and sharpening. Until then, it should remain a beta -- thus optional -- feature and the classic camera mode needs to also remain a functioning option.
I'm fine with CCP fleshing it out to be a proper and reliable successor, just as I've said about any of the other beta features, as long as we are not getting a buggy downgrade for sake of "new" in the process.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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