Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13725
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:26:53 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone! We're planning a huge set of module tiericide in our March release and this thread will serve as the feedback location for changes to ECM and Burst Jammers.
This is a big group of modules, and we're making some light changes to module stats (mainly range tweaks) as well as some significant clarifying changes to the module names.
For ECM Bust modules, we are adding a new set of faction and officer bursts from the Rogue Drones. We are also rechristening the groups as "Burst Jammers" so that we can more easily distinguish between the two in bonus text.
Here's the most recent iteration of the numbers:
We're very interested in your feedback on all these changes. We'll be releasing them to Singularity next week if all goes well, so that you can try these and all the other module changes planned for the March release. Please use this thread for passing along your feedback, and we'll be reading.
Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13725
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:27:05 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
Asher Elias
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:06:54 -
[3] - Quote
Are ECM bursts going to have falloff apply now? If so how will it work? |
Sydious
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:10:15 -
[4] - Quote
No empire faction or officer ecm? |
Mark Hadden
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:24:48 -
[5] - Quote
keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. |
Gaius Superbus
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:29:05 -
[6] - Quote
What are the arguments for not making ECM scriptable? Of course this would make them stronger but a nerf to the overall strength would eliminate that and we could get rid off so many of these modules... |
Barnacle Jakuard
Rapid Withdrawal
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:45:55 -
[7] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.
Right, because obviously Eve is currently incredibly accessible for new players without any bizarre arcane rules left in place from many years ago for Bob-only-knows what reason. If something this minor gets your knickers in that much of a twist, I can only imagine what your thoughts on the proposed sebo/ECCM merger are...
Back on topic. I'm on the fence as to whether script-able ECCM modules would make more sense than this series of changes, but am glad to see jammer names getting a clarification treatment. |
Sahriah BloodStone
No.Mercy Triumvirate.
253
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:57:44 -
[8] - Quote
Is CCP looking at changing the core mechanic of RNG ECM jamming at all or are you intentionally leaving it alone?
Sahriah Bloodstone
Praetor, No.Mercy
"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
1985
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:07:23 -
[9] - Quote
Why not remove all this racial stuff and make ECM scriptables? Especially now that ECCMs are integrated into a widespread module that is sensor boosters...
Suggestion:
Not really expecting it since it's way more dev-intensive than tweaking numbers, but what about sensor strength turning into a ressource much like capacitor ? With the same passive regeneration curbe.
Remove the random element of ECMs, have them slowly take away chunks of the target's sensor strength until it's unable to lock. With sebos and remote sebos acting as "logi" on your sensor strength.
No more randomness. More fairness for both the ECM (ensured efficiency, albeit after some time) and its victim (fair time to kill the ECM or "broadcast for ECCM").
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
Lelob
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
209
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:22:54 -
[10] - Quote
Please increase cap consumption to above 400-600 so ecm bursting inties die out. |
|
Hold Alpha
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:25:01 -
[11] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.
Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.
Completely agree. In fact CCP should translate all modules and UI elements to icelandic, to add the kind of complexity the game craves, and show how elite the True Eve Players are. |
Anthar Thebess
1452
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pirate LP store version missing here too.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
175
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:36:50 -
[13] - Quote
Overall: am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected noted that Dread Gurista Multi ECM get buff
But big issue would be ECCM merge into SEBO in other thread. will CCP think to buff ECM or buff ECM boat if it turn out that more people carry SEBO to counter Jam? |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
421
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:00:47 -
[14] - Quote
unidenify wrote:Overall: am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected Why...That was quite possibly the most illogical and unintuitive case with any of the old meta system. I'm glad to see T2 ECM finally gain its rightful place with these proposed changes.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:01:05 -
[15] - Quote
I still think there is a bigger problem with ecm drones, and perhaps ECM as a whole, that needs to be considered.
All other forms of ECM are scripted, they either provide a range or effectiveness of some kind of ship attribute, reducing the effect of one of these ships attributes or another. Tracking disruptors are useless against missile ships, sensor damps are useless against most ships with one or more sensor boosters with the right script in. Yes, tracking disruptors and sensor damps CAN be devastating, but only when applied to the right kind of ship, with the right kind of modules, and can be countered in a number of ways.
If you look at ECM drones in particular, no matter what ship they are on, be it an ishtar, which has bonuses to drones, or a vagabond, which doesn't, they have the same effects. This means, that an ishtar, whose DPS comes from it's drones, would basically become as effective as any other ship while launching ecm drones. It incentivises players to use ecm drones on a ship with no bonuses and a small drone bay.
Their effects are also FAR in excess of any other drone based warfare platform. t2 light drones do approximately 70-100 dps for a full flight, which, unless one is facing frigates is marginal, yet ecm drones get one jam strength for EVERY race, which might not seem like much, but is 40% more effective than an unbonused multispectral collectively. This doesn't illustrate their strength though, as 5 small chances to jam a target is much more effective than a single, slightly stronger chance.
The TLDR is, ECM drones are broken, boring to play with, and add nothing of value to the game other than annoyance. They involve no skill to use, but can shut down a ship for TWENTY SECONDS, and this happens far too often. Any ship without at least one ECCM module knows they are going to be jammed by ECM drones at some point in the fight. That's why everyone uses them.
ECM is another story. Again, there is very little skill in using ECM. Unlike sensor damps and tracking diruptors where one has a choice, and that choice dictates the way combat is going to go, whether it be through range disrupting your opponent's guns, therefore keeping at range of them to take advantage of it, or sensor dampening your opponent with scan resolution scrips, so their logistics take a long time to lock your primary, damps and tracking disruptors are both an engaging and fun, and often decisive way combat plays out.
ECM on the other hand is just a question of 'did you fit ECCM and have enough gang links to hopefully counter the inablity for your ship to lock anything for 20 seconds or more?' It's a random 'I win button', with very little tactic or pre-thought involved.
I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. Alternatively, one could make it so that the more sensor integrity the hostile ship has, the more capacitor it costs to use ECM modules in order to try and counter them, although this might be more server load than you would be willing to introduce for one module (you did it for cap batteries though!).
I strongly suggest you remove light ECM drones altogether, perhaps even medium ECM drones. No other race gets a light and medium variant of ECM drones, so why should caldari? Light ECM drones mean there is simply no reason not to fit them on every ship you own. Their speed means no ship can outrun them other than linked ceptors, and their size means if you don't have at least a single flight in your ship, you're doing something wrong. Also, ECM drones should stop jamming a target if they stray out of their optimal range, much like normal drones stop being able to hit. I have had ecm drones which I have burned 30km away from continue to jam me for the remainder of their cycle.
The TLDR is, ECM is neither fun, engaging, or challenging, in fact, it is the opposite of all three. There is no element of strategy involved with ECM or ECM drones. Compare the arazu to the falcon, and in a fight, there is simply no competition to which you would prefer to have in a small gang. I mean hell, even the arazu will be packing ECM drones. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1202
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:29:25 -
[16] - Quote
pls just remove ecm until you can think up an acceptable new mechanic |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1460
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:36:07 -
[17] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm.
HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
|
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:40:16 -
[18] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Mr Rive wrote:I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis.
Jokes on you I dont own a titan :smug: |
FOl2TY8
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:47:30 -
[19] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.
Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.
Do you have to be hospitalized every time Mountain Dew changes it's packaging? |
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:49:02 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Fozzie, E-war Drones? |
|
mnehila
Grey Eagles TransentienT
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:08:09 -
[21] - Quote
I'd like the effect of when you are jammed to change from "not being able to lock" to "every targeting attempt have a chance of failing" (still using the full targeting time) + at the start of the ecm module cycle "every targeted ship have a chance of being unlocked". This would change the on/off feel of ecm to x amount targeting attempts failing and x locks lost, the amount depending on how strong the ecm effect is.
And another crazy idea to make it more interesting, make the direction the ecm is coming from matter, ie, make the ecm effect stronger or only apply in the same direction the ecm ship is. The ecm ship would have to be "behind"/"in line" with the fleet to be effective, and you could escape the effect of the jam by moving "sideways" until the ship you are trying to lock is no longer in a line between you and the ecm ship. This could create a fun positioning game I think :) Something like this: https://imgur.com/KDX1xda |
Michael Oskold
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:21:06 -
[22] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.
Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.
says the guy in hoover. lmao |
Aliventi
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
915
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:41:49 -
[23] - Quote
This would be a great time to make ECM more unified with the other EWAR variants. ECM is the only module that has different racial types. I think it would be far more valuable to make ECM a single module with racial scripts to bring it in line with SD/TD. I think it would also be beneficial to remove signal amplifiers as no other EWAR has a way to boost effectiveness. Of course removing signal amplifiers would preferably be compensated by a slight buff to ECM strength.
The reason I advocate for these changes is to give ECM ships opportunities to act more like other EWAR ships. Because ECM has racial modules you are driven to fit at least one of each racial ECM module to prevent the case where you are less effective on the battlefield because you are missing a racial jammer. By changing ECM to be a single module with scripts it would allow ECM ships to need fewer ECM modules, and free up slots for tank. This would allow ECM ships to have the capability present in other EWAR ships of being able to fit enough tank to stay on the field. There would still be those who would fit max jammers. They would pay because they would be easy to kill, just as any other EWAR ship that fix max EWAR. A single ECM module with racial scripts would unlock ECM ships that can stay on field and keep fighting, instead of ECM ships that warp in at max range and warp out as soon as they get shot. That's a choice present in every other EWAR ships and should be available to ECM ships. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
556
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:47:08 -
[24] - Quote
if ccp devs were true in listening to what their players want. then RIP out this stupid AS **** mechanic and put in something that isnt rage inducing. a ship with 300 sensor strength vs a 15 strength jam should never EVER EVER EVER JAM. EVER.
nobody here wants to see this crap tiercided, everybody in the entire universe wants to see a new freaking mechanic.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
|
Addison Clark
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:52:11 -
[25] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:This would be a great time to make ECM more unified with the other EWAR variants. ECM is the only module that has different racial types. I think it would be far more valuable to make ECM a single module with racial scripts to bring it in line with SD/TD. I think it would also be beneficial to remove signal amplifiers as no other EWAR has a way to boost effectiveness. Of course removing signal amplifiers would preferably be compensated by a slight buff to ECM strength.
The reason I advocate for these changes is to give ECM ships opportunities to act more like other EWAR ships. Because ECM has racial modules you are driven to fit at least one of each racial ECM module to prevent the case where you are less effective on the battlefield because you are missing a racial jammer. By changing ECM to be a single module with scripts it would allow ECM ships to need fewer ECM modules, and free up slots for tank. This would allow ECM ships to have the capability present in other EWAR ships of being able to fit enough tank to stay on the field. There would still be those who would fit max jammers. They would pay because they would be easy to kill, just as any other EWAR ship that fix max EWAR. A single ECM module with racial scripts would unlock ECM ships that can stay on field and keep fighting, instead of ECM ships that warp in at max range and warp out as soon as they get shot. That's a choice present in every other EWAR ships and should be available to ECM ships.
Honestly this is what I thought would be happening now that Citadal ECM is to be used with racial scripts. Adding this in improves the usability of the module, and enables you to adjust on-the-fly versus being locked in to a certain type.
|
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
342
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:54:11 -
[26] - Quote
I wish T2 modules had more interesting names than "something T2".
Though, I do hope you guys at least capitalize RADAR and LADAR properly, as they're acronyms and not words themselves.
All in all, I think you actually managed to not completely ruin ECM like I was afraid would happen. I'm not enthused with the changes, but I'm not too upset by them either. |
Gallente Citizen420
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:54:49 -
[27] - Quote
While you're at it, could be please make Gallente ecm modules green? CCPlease
Amarr - yellow Caldari - blue Mimmatar scum - red Gallente master race - another shade of blue!?!?!? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2968
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:11:17 -
[28] - Quote
How long that list is says you should get rid of racial ECM modules. Omni ECM & scripts/ammo if you really really have to keep some form of focusing. Scripts as ammo gives a meaning to specialising to only a single type since you can't keep it up forever as a result. But you don't have to fit different turrets for shooting different races, and you don't have to fit different damps/painters for different races either (The disruptor also should have been universal.). So Omni ECM and some form of ammo lands us back in a sweet spot of common sense & still meaningful choices of what ammo to carry. |
Zetakya
Echelon Research SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:29:02 -
[29] - Quote
Some thoughts on both ECM & ECCM. Speaking here as a Caldari EWAR pilot. I'll cross-post part of this into the ECCM/SEBO thread as well, for completeness & to make sure the relevant parts are seen by Devs in the right place, but it's not really possible to consider the ECM changes in isolation from the widening of the ECCM availability.
The SEBO fitting reqs just doubled for the same effect. Old F90 was 30% boost, to get that now you need a Tech2, which with the increased fitting costs per module has pushed CPU need from 8 to 16. That's going to be a problem for some fits (thankfully, not mine).
I do like the merging of ECCM with these modules, it makes for a good tactical choice on the field of what to script, rather than a strategic choice before you leave dock.
As for ECM... this is a nerf. Aside from much more common use of ECCM, simply fitting an equivalent strength ECM module will now cost 10 extra CPU per module and require 20 additional cap per cycle per module. While the CPU change doesn't really matter at present (the Rook in particular is already grossly over-specified in that department), it will matter if you ever rebalance the hulls and it is going to make cap stable ECM more difficult, and therefore increase the value of Neuts as an ECM counter. This is especially true given the slot limitations making fitting tank, ECM and now cap mods in mid slots an impossible challenge.
I reiterate all of the calls for scripted ECM to be available. The argument that racial ECM gives a benefit to the side with the better information is a fair one, but I don't think it's sensible for an entire module - or indeed an entire ship - to be rendered useless for the duration of a fleet. Most EWAR pilots already carry refitting tools - usually a Yurt and a full suite of Meta4 racials at present - in order to prevent this eventuality anyway.
Given that, why not implement scripts for ECM, but with a significant "reload" (Install? Firmware Flash? w/e) time? A 60s timer (the same as the deployment time on a Mobile Depot) would be reasonable. You could also implement other types of scripts - one that gives extended range, but without racial enhancements, or one that severely reduces range & nullifies hull bonuses, but increases base strength sharply.
Racial ECMs don't add anything to the game, because you've implemented modules that give us a workaround with a minute of downtime anyway. Just give us the same ability as a native part of the ECM functionality, please. |
Alexis Nightwish
406
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Since I've already read the sebo changes, I can see that these are just the nail in the coffin for ECM. I mean, you're nerfing ECM and at the same time strengthening its counters. Good job.
CCP Fozzie wrote:For ECM Bust modules, we are adding a new set of faction and officer bursts from the Rogue Drones. We are also rechristening the groups as "Burst Jammers" so that we can more easily distinguish between the two in bonus text. Another fine example of how you don't actually play the game. Don't know what I'm talking about? Okay, so check this out, ECM Burst modules DO NOT JAM. They only break locks. But you're going to call them "Jammers" now? smh
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |