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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:13:25 -
[271] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rowells wrote: That is profit. And are you seriously going to try and pull PLEX as an up front cost? I don't doubt you run defecits at times, bad rolls of the dice and a few internal thefts don't help. Are you trying to say miniluv is a charitabe operation (aside from free love)?
It breaks even, with this change it will be operating at a loss. I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with.
miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17334
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:16:37 -
[272] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:
Whatever you say luckbear.
There is a megathron hull in game that under your idea would have the tank of 100 titans. Yes, isk tanking is a terrible idea. |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
29
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:18:32 -
[273] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:Gorion Wassenar wrote:Jin Kugu wrote: If CCP fozzie wants to see the real numbers for freighter ganking maybe he should have asked.
Are you high? He has the raw numbers straight from the server. Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making? If they want to? Are you seriously asking this question??
Yes, I would love to be proven wrong but I'm sure ccp has no idea how much freighter ganking makes. I know that because otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
367
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:19:07 -
[274] - Quote
I am excited about these changes, but I am really worried about adding a base 33% hull resistance to ships by default. I think it is too high. Putting the issue of freighter/ganking aside, there are a lot of extremely strong PVP fits currently which do not utilize a damage control, and adding a base hull resist gives them a much more powerful tank.
Here are some very common pvp fits which do not use a damage control: Kiting slicers, kiting tristans, Jackdaw fits with 2 BCs, Flycatcher fits using 1 BC, pure armor tanking ships that do not often fit a DC such as are common on the Enyo, Retribution, Punisher, Maller, and so on. All of these fits and some others are powerful right now, and getting an added base hull resist makes them quite a bit more tanky.
My suggestion would be to only add a 10-20% base hull resist, or to have tech 1 ships have a base hull resist of 10% and tech 2 ships have a base resist of 20%. 33% across the board is probably just too high. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
931
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:19:31 -
[275] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aiwha wrote:
Whatever you say luckbear.
There is a megathron hull in game that under your idea would have the tank of 100 titans. Yes, isk tanking is a terrible idea.
That value is due to rarity, not due to the base hull cost and you should know that. A hull that requires 6b to build should require 6b to suicide gank. The fact that you don't understand value vs. isk cost says a lot.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26990
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:21:14 -
[276] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:That's ********. Welcome to the fundamental flaw of ISK tanking as a concept.
Quote:The entire point of CONCORD is to make killing random ships in highsec risk]. No. The point of CONCORD in its various forms is that it ensures that aggression comes at a cost, be it in ISK or in assets.
Quote:If you want to blap a freighter, you'd better be willing to match the 1.2b that the owner put into their ship hull. No. That's called ISK-tanking and is one of the most horribly fucktarded failures of game balancing possible. The cost of a ship should at no point have any relation whatsoever to how much you have to spend to kill it. If such a connection exists, the game is inherently and irreparably unbalanced and needs to have the connecting mechanic removed, immediately. Only then can the game be repaired and restored to any semblance of balance.
A ship that cost 7bn must be killable by a ship that costs a tiny tiny fraction, or you will end up with a WoW-style level system where lower levels are prohibited from being effective against higher levels, and where higher levels are immune for no sane or sensible reason other than that they are a higher level. Only in this case, the GÇ£levelGÇ¥ is cost. This is very similar to a classic P2W setup.
The sheer lunacy of such a system becomes very apparent if you turn the table. Ok, so a 1.2bn ship should be safe from a 100M shipGǪ but then, a 12bn ship should be able to utterly annihilate scores of 1.2bn ships without even breaking a sweat. An Etana must be untouchable by CONCORD; a Sin must be able to solo a Fenrir; a Tribal Tempest must be able to instagib a JF. Arguing that cost should be a factor means you must accept the other side of that coin, and I highly doubt that anyone is willing to actually do so.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17337
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:21:18 -
[277] - Quote
Rowells wrote: I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with.
miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long.
I don't care what you think, I know. The guy who set it up was in my corp, we know exactly what its financial position is. That theft was not from the miniluv stockpiles, that was the stash for burn jita and was entirely funded by one guy. Miniluv breaks even. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:22:32 -
[278] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:Gorion Wassenar wrote:Jin Kugu wrote: If CCP fozzie wants to see the real numbers for freighter ganking maybe he should have asked.
Are you high? He has the raw numbers straight from the server. Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making? If they want to? Are you seriously asking this question?? Yes, I would love to be proven wrong but I'm sure ccp has no idea how much freighter ganking makes. I know that because otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. If CCP can't know, how tf would you know? |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
29
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:22:35 -
[279] - Quote
Rowells wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rowells wrote: That is profit. And are you seriously going to try and pull PLEX as an up front cost? I don't doubt you run defecits at times, bad rolls of the dice and a few internal thefts don't help. Are you trying to say miniluv is a charitabe operation (aside from free love)?
It breaks even, with this change it will be operating at a loss. I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with. miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long.
A couple hundred bil is nothing for 5 years of day in, day out playing this game.
Let's say miniluv plays this game for about 200 manhours a day, a low estimate. If they ran incursions they would make about 600 bil a month. 600 bil profit in 1 month compared to 5 years.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
1067
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:22:42 -
[280] - Quote
So just out of curiousity, does the Golem now get 3 or 4 more lowslots so that hull tanking is even between all marauders?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17337
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:22:58 -
[281] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aiwha wrote:
Whatever you say luckbear.
There is a megathron hull in game that under your idea would have the tank of 100 titans. Yes, isk tanking is a terrible idea. That value is due to rarity, not due to the base hull cost and you should know that. A hull that requires 6b to build should require 6b to suicide gank. The fact that you don't understand value vs. isk cost says a lot.
The base hull cost is 10 trillion. You cant build it. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
931
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:24:00 -
[282] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aiwha wrote:That's ********. Welcome to the fundamental flaw of ISK tanking as a concept. Quote:The entire point of CONCORD is to make killing random ships in highsec risk]. No. The point of CONCORD in its various forms is that it ensures that aggression comes at a cost, be it in ISK or in assets. Quote:If you want to blap a freighter, you'd better be willing to match the 1.2b that the owner put into their ship hull. No. That's called ISK-tanking and is one of the most horribly fucktarded failures of game balancing possible. The cost of a ship should at no point have any relation whatsoever to how much you have to spend to kill it. If such a connection exists, the game is inherently and irreparably unbalanced and needs to have the connecting mechanic removed, immediately. Only then can the game be repaired and restored to any semblance of balance. A ship that cost 7bn must be killable by a ship that costs a tiny tiny fraction, or you will end up with a WoW-style level system where lower levels are prohibited from being effective against higher levels, and where higher levels are immune for no sane or sensible reason other than that they are a higher level. Only in this case, the GǣlevelGǥ is cost. This is very similar to a classic P2W setup. The sheer lunacy of such a system becomes very apparent if you turn the table. Ok, so a 1.2bn ship should be safe from a 100M shipGǪ but then, a 12bn ship should be able to utterly annihilate scores of 1.2bn ships without even breaking a sweat. An Etana must be untouchable by CONCORD; a Sin must be able to solo a Fenrir; a Tribal Tempest must be able to instagib a JF. Arguing that cost should be a factor means you must accept the other side of that coin, and I highly doubt that anyone is willing to actually do so.
As I said, a rifter can easily take a JF or any larger expensive ship if it has the time.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
139
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:25:02 -
[283] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:
Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making?
Are you seriously implying a CCP employee doesn't have access to sale logs, killmail logs, bounty logs?
Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!
"DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
931
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:25:22 -
[284] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aiwha wrote:baltec1 wrote:Aiwha wrote:
Whatever you say luckbear.
There is a megathron hull in game that under your idea would have the tank of 100 titans. Yes, isk tanking is a terrible idea. That value is due to rarity, not due to the base hull cost and you should know that. A hull that requires 6b to build should require 6b to suicide gank. The fact that you don't understand value vs. isk cost says a lot. The base hull cost is 10 trillion. You cant build it.
Care to link the 10 trillion in minerals that we're spent on that beast luckbear?
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26990
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:26:17 -
[285] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:As I said, a rifter can easily take a JF or any larger expensive ship if it has the time. GǪexcept that, as mentioned, it can't.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
29
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:26:46 -
[286] - Quote
Gorion Wassenar wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:
Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making?
Are you seriously implying a CCP employee doesn't have access to sale logs, killmail logs, bounty logs?
I'm implying ccp doesn't have the tools to make sense out of that data.
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
931
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:27:38 -
[287] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aiwha wrote:As I said, a rifter can easily take a JF or any larger expensive ship if it has the time. GǪexcept that, as mentioned, it can't.
You can't do more than 10dps in a rifter?
Did you do the tutorial up to the "skill-queue" part? That's important.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
139
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:29:16 -
[288] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:
I'm implying ccp doesn't have the tools to make sense out of that data.
Tools mentally or physically? I can probably guess which one you think they don't have.
Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!
"DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26998
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:30:35 -
[289] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:You can't do more than 10dps in a rifter? You have 20 seconds to chew through 32k EHP. Kindly show the Rifter fit that is capable of doing so.
I can tell you right now, 10 DPS will not cut it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:31:38 -
[290] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rowells wrote:I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with.
miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long. I don't care what you think, I know. The guy who set it up was in my corp, we know exactly what its financial position is. That theft was not from the miniluv stockpiles, that was the stash for burn jita and was entirely funded by one guy. Miniluv breaks even.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17361
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:32:09 -
[291] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:
Care to link the 10 trillion in minerals that we're spent on that beast luckbear?
Zero.
Its was sold to its current owner over a decade ago for a vast sum of isk. It was given as a reward in the very early days of the game. |
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
309
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:33:12 -
[292] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Gorion Wassenar wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:
Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making?
Are you seriously implying a CCP employee doesn't have access to sale logs, killmail logs, bounty logs? I'm implying ccp doesn't have the tools to make sense out of that data.
So, let's get this straight... a) according to gankers (and probably you) ccp has the tools to reliably tell which subs have been lost to people losing to gankers (out of game data) but b) according to you they don't have the tools to tell how much people are making from ganking (in-game data).
Your logic is out of this world, my friend. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:34:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Gorion Wassenar wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:
Do you really think ccp has the tools to determine how much isk a group is making?
Are you seriously implying a CCP employee doesn't have access to sale logs, killmail logs, bounty logs? I'm implying ccp doesn't have the tools to make sense out of that data. you mean they can't do subtraction and addition? Explains all the bugs. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16249
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:34:27 -
[294] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:If you want to blap a freighter, you'd better be willing to match the 1.2b that the owner put into their ship hull. If you want to gank a JF, you'd better pony up 5-7b to match what they gambled by undocking their ship.
Idk how ****** your head has to be if you think that outright isk tanking should be a thing.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17361
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:34:44 -
[295] - Quote
Rowells wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rowells wrote:I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with.
miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long. I don't care what you think, I know. The guy who set it up was in my corp, we know exactly what its financial position is. That theft was not from the miniluv stockpiles, that was the stash for burn jita and was entirely funded by one guy. Miniluv breaks even.
None of that contradicts what I just said. |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
29
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:37:08 -
[296] - Quote
Rowells wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rowells wrote:I doubt it. Hard to have a high-ranking member can steal a couple hundred billion in assorted items and say that you aren't coming out more than what you started with.
miniluv has always capitalized on the stupid and fat. I doubt this will put them in the red for long. I don't care what you think, I know. The guy who set it up was in my corp, we know exactly what its financial position is. That theft was not from the miniluv stockpiles, that was the stash for burn jita and was entirely funded by one guy. Miniluv breaks even.
Warr akini used to run 13 ratting carriers to fund miniluv and burned out getting miniluv back in shape after Globby. You're dumb :getout: |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:37:38 -
[297] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:None of that contradicts what I just said.
sure |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2918
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:38:24 -
[298] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:
Warr akini used to run 13 ratting carriers to fund miniluv and burned out getting miniluv back in shape after Globby. You're dumb :getout:
maybe you should read the rest of the paragraph. Both of them if you're feelin smart. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
933
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:40:30 -
[299] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aiwha wrote:You can't do more than 10dps in a rifter? You have 20 seconds to chew through 32k EHP. Kindly show the Rifter fit that is capable of doing so. I can tell you right now, 10 DPS will not cut it.
Why the time limit? Oh, wait, its because you're afraid of lowsec. EVE is about risk and reward, the freighter pilot risks their cargo plus the cost of their ship, the ganker risks RNGesus plus the value of their ship. If you spend 1b, and the target spends 7b, that's ALL the risk on their end. Quit being a carebear and take some risks in the game.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17362
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:41:13 -
[300] - Quote
You are arguing with the corp that founded that organisation. |
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